Miss Prism Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 More bollox I've been selling A5 frame kits for more than five years and I know some have been made up. My apologies, Bill, and I have moderated the offending sentence, which was admittedly superfluous to the message content. I had also forgotten Adrian Cherry's Standard 2-6-4T. Looking at the drawing, I'm struck by how long a Stanier pacific is at the back, and how naturally balanced it is, and that seems to underline the sense of getting the CofG near the middle driver. When it comes to Pacifics, I'm inclined toward the Churchward view! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 The C of G need to be in front of the middle driver to ensure that the bogie takes it's full share of the weight. The share of the weight on the pony is less important but it will play a role in damping any tendency for the drivers to initiate pitching. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hello all, with all this talk of springs and CSBs, I got out the weight drawings and had a look at them. Princess Royal, Turbomotive Princess Anne, In all cases the bogie is taking around 21 tons, but the biggest change is the pony truck when compared between a Princess Royal and Turbomoitive 4 tons 6 cwt. that did come as a surprise, in all cases it's carrying more weight on the one axle than the bogie axles (all things being equal on the bogie, approx 10 1/2 ton per axle). Back to the build, the etched springs from the front Left and the rear, The Finney horn guides in the flat, when I get them made up I'll have to remove a section from the top for the CSB support, The axleboxs with the supports fixed in place. these are Markits long 7mm WD handrail knobs, The CSB pivot supports drilled in the frames, As I'd drilled the frames for some rivets (1/32" snap heads) I wanted to see what the frames looked like with them in place, There should be some more around the small hole (plunger pick-up) but I've had to miss them out. The small hole above is for the CSBs pivot so at the moment the rivets are missing so I can file it's tail flush with the frames, The front of the frames with some overlays and rivets in place. The spring hangers for the front and middle drivers, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asa Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The rivets look fantastic Ozzy,well worth the effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Are those punched rivets OzzyO or have you drilled through and replaced them with brass Rod/Pins? Looking very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I would guess they are from here: http://www.scalehardware.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hello all, has no one spotted any thing about the weight drawings? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hello all, come on Pete why would I drill all of them holes? One of the interesting jobs to do, the crank axle. For this one I'm looking at using Loctite 290 for the initial bond between the axle and the cranks. After that it will be cross drilling them to take tapered pins to lock them all in place. That will be fun (not). The tapered reamer cost me about £20 so I don't want to bust it on this job. Just for Pete, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Anne has shrunk in length by 4" and the tender is rated for 9tons instead of 10! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Anne has shrunk in length by 4" and the tender is rated for 9tons instead of 10! The length is correct, as Anne got a new front end with a reduced wheel base of 7'3" rather than 8'0". It is the tender weight it's the same for a nine ton tender and a ten ton tender. 6202 / Anne always had a nine ton tender, it was never enlarged to ten ton capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I was going to say "depends on how strong the Brew was you had been drinking". Thank you they look like fin to fit on mass I hope your asbestos fingers are holding up to all the use. How do you plan to keep the drill square and running true as you go through the balance weights? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 ....One of the interesting jobs to do, the crank axle. For this one I'm looking at using Loctite 290 for the initial bond between the axle and the cranks. ... God I love inside motion.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hello all, on with the crank axle. For drilling and reaming it I'm getting some help from two of my mates, Mr. Milling Machine and Mr Dividing Head. Setting up is straight forward set the webs horizontal set the drill on the centre line and off you go. The first hole drilled and reamed, starting to drill the second hole, Getting ready to ream the second hole. For this job I decided to keep the M/C table locked at the same indexes, rather than moving between two indexes for each of the operations, The tapered pins locked in place. One thing to remember about tapered pins is that the taper is different between metric (1;50 taper) and imperial (1;48 taper) so if your going to use them make sure that you use the correct ones. I've still got some work to do on the crank, but more on that later, Setting up the horn-guides and axleboxs. For this job I'm doing the two frames separate, I'd prefer to do them both together but on this job I can't do that, All three in place. You can also see the tails for the CSBs pivot points soldered in place, and from the inside, The last four rivets soldered in place around the rear pivot point, From the outside, you can just see the shadow of the rear pivot point in-between them, With a wheel in place. Was it worth all the work? The parts laid out for the hind end frames, The hind frames made up, showing how they attach to the rear main frame spacer, All of the main frame spacers laid out. These are 24.16 wide which I find to be a bit on the narrow side (more-so when I'm fitting a crank axle). I'd like them to be around 25.4mm. I've got an idea for doing this on most of them apart from the rear one, this one I may have to cut in half and stitch it back together. The front one (from Martin Finney) is too wide at 29mm, so I'll have to reduce it. If I do another one of these I think that I'd look at getting some new frame spacers etched, If I did that I'd also look at reducing the width between the inside cylinders, this would have the effect of reducing the overall width of the crank as well. Still a lot of work to do, but I'd like to have on her wheels by the weekend, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Some very useful ideas there. Am wondering if they can be replicated in 4mm scale.....which would save having to silver solder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Some very useful ideas there. Am wondering if they can be replicated in 4mm scale.....which would save having to silver solder. I'm not sure if you could use the tapered pins as the large end is 1/16" (1.6mm) and the small end is 3/64" (1.2mm) and these maybe a bit too big. Metric tapered pins may start smaller (I don't know) or you could try a watch maker supplier (Shestos?). I know that you can get steel roll pins down to 1mm. Another way would just to cross drill it 1mm and fit parallel pins. You don't need to silver solder a crank axle up in 4mm that is just over kill. 180 deg. solder would work just as well. If you were doing something like gauge 3 and the crank was working then yes silver solder. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Aha, understood. By the way, are your cranks on this one castings, or bespoke-turned by you? If the latter, I think I've just had an idea.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hello Horsetan, cranks by Martin Finney. The time taken to M/C a set of cranks would just be too much when you can buy them along with the con rods, cylinder chests and slide-bars etc. OzzyO. PS. what is your idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ....PS. what is your idea? Trying to turn my own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can I ask some questions again, Ozzy, please? First off, the photo APPEARS to show the reamer being used under power? Is that right? Second, you asked "Was it worth the work?". The answer is a resounding YES!!! And thirdly...does that wheel have the correct number of spokes? (Runs for cover). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Trying to turn my own. Simple, solder four thickness's of brass / nickel silver together drill two holes at the required throw, cut to shape, unsolder, clean up. Using the following, a spacer for the web width and a dummy axle solder the crank pin in place (180 deg), clean up, then solder on to the axle (145 deg maybe good for this), you could then pin the webs to the axle. Using a M/C is good to do this as it keeps all of the parts held ridged (that's why I used my mill). The hard job is removing the bit of the axle. If the crank axle has eccentrics that is now down to you to work out. But you could go something like this. Solder the four blanks together drill them for the axle hole, then using a four jaw chuck set them up off the run that you need and turn them. Then it's down to you how to set them all up and keep the rods on them. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can I ask some questions again, Ozzy, please? First off, the photo APPEARS to show the reamer being used under power? Is that right? Second, you asked "Was it worth the work?". The answer is a resounding YES!!! And thirdly...does that wheel have the correct number of spokes? (Runs for cover). Hello JeffP, no you can't :jester: of course you can, The photo does indeed show the reamer being used under power. Why would I have used my mate to help me hold the crank? Mr. Dividing Head and Mr Milling Machine. The drill (1.2mm) was run at approx 950 RPM I tend to run all of my drills and cutting tools a bit on the slow side, as I find that I get better use out of them. The reamer was run at 315 rpm, as that is the slowest that the mill will run. I'd have liked to run it at about 150 rpm.. Your second reply works for me. Now that last question just requires. Foxtrot Oscar. Now behave and start doing some work on Alcazar or what it's called, over twelve months and you haven't got the tender frames built! I may be able to lurne how to speek English in that time. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ... First off, the photo APPEARS to show the reamer being used under power? Is that right? ... Perfectly reasonable to use a reamer in a machine tool. In fact it's essential if you want the hole to be square to your datum. Off the soapbox. Super thread absolutely riveted! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can I ask some questions again, Ozzy, please?..... http://youtu.be/GEstgTAXyec Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Perfectly reasonable to use a reamer in a machine tool. In fact it's essential if you want the hole to be square to your datum. Off the soapbox. Super thread absolutely riveted! Regards Of course, it all depends on the type of reamer. Hand reamers don't usually behave well when used in machines, and machine reamers don't behave well when trying to use them by hand... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 One more question, then: What are you using to drill loads of tiny holes in the frames? Not a Dremel, I'll warrant... And probably not a pin-vice? Pin vice and tiny drill in the milling machine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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