USATC S160 Locomotive in 7mm scale (well that's the plan)

[D6775]

There are two based at the Churnet Valley Railway. 6046 is currently in service (has been on the Cauldon Lowe Branch today) the other, 5197, is awaiting overhaul. Both of which are normally easily accessible. 5197 is stored public side of the shed so would be easy to measure should it be required.

[Fay Singpoint]

That's the one, if any one lives close to the NYMR the east lancs or The Churnet valley and can get close up pictures please post them up.

 

The CVR is just up the road from me and I took these of 6046 last month. 6046 was outshopped from the Cheddleton works in September 2012.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5197 is planned to enter Cheddleton works some time this year.

 

 

HTH

[Horsetan]

Here are some of 2253 that were buried in one of my HDDs (as opposed to the garden)...... Hopefully this is material you can use.

[steve fay]

Thank you kindly, super pics

[Jack P]

Excuse my Ignorance, But were these the WD engines that came over at the same time as the dock shunters?

[The Stationmaster]

Excuse my Ignorance, But were these the WD engines that came over at the same time as the dock shunters?

Not exactly - these arrived earlier, the first one being officially 'received' at Paddington as it happens, and they were assembled into full working order in the 'factory' (i.e. the workshop building) at Ebbw Jcn shed in Newport.  They were then either put into store or loaned into traffic use with several of the mainline companies - mostly the GWR I think (but am not certain) and then, from D-Day +whatever, they were gradually shipped over to mainland Europe to do what they had been built for.

 

As far as I know none of the tank engines were used (except possibly by the US military??) in Britain before being shipped over to the mainland - they only entered UK use when some of those that were dumped post-war at Newbury Racecourse were sold-off by the military.  The only S160s which came back after hostilitities were, I think, the couple that went to Longmoor or other Army sites.

 

The S160s had a very mixed reception here and some men I knew who had worked on them hated them although part of that was probably down to unfamiliarity - especially with the rocking grate which could easily catch the unwary and dump most of the fire.  However the water gauges were a real, and nasty, potential trap and very difficult to read which probably made them responsible for most of the injuries which occurred on the locos in such incidents as collapsed crown sheets.  I had a go on one years ago on the Mid Hants and found it a very misleading engine to fire as you tend to think you've got a deep fire when in fact it is pretty thin - hence stopping for a blow-up in my case  

[Jack P]

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply Stationmaster, That does clear it up for me - time to do some research. Will be looking forward to seeing this come to fruition in 7mm.

 

I didn't know you'd blown up an engine before?

 

Jack

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply Stationmaster, That does clear it up for me - time to do some research. Will be looking forward to seeing this come to fruition in 7mm.

 

I didn't know you'd blown up an engine before?

 

Jack

 

A blow-up on a steam engine is more of an embarassment than anything else however I did once 'adjudicate' on the effectiveness of railway sabotage methods, among other things, for a military exercise presentation at Longmoor (but alas their railway had gone by then).

[Horsetan]

....seeing this come to fruition in 7mm.....

 

...and 4mm.

 

*prays fervently*

[Clive Mortimore]

HI Steve

 

Have you come across this drawing yet http://s25.photobucket.com/user/bengts/media/Anglok/USA/krig/2.jpg.html

[kingdom]

Not exactly - these arrived earlier, the first one being officially 'received' at Paddington as it happens, and they were assembled into full working order in the 'factory' (i.e. the workshop building) at Ebbw Jcn shed in Newport.  They were then either put into store or loaned into traffic use with several of the mainline companies - mostly the GWR I think (but am not certain) and then, from D-Day +whatever, they were gradually shipped over to mainland Europe to do what they had been built for.

 

As far as I know none of the tank engines were used (except possibly by the US military??) in Britain before being shipped over to the mainland - they only entered UK use when some of those that were dumped post-war at Newbury Racecourse were sold-off by the military.  The only S160s which came back after hostilitities were, I think, the couple that went to Longmoor or other Army sites.

 

The S160s had a very mixed reception here and some men I knew who had worked on them hated them although part of that was probably down to unfamiliarity - especially with the rocking grate which could easily catch the unwary and dump most of the fire.  However the water gauges were a real, and nasty, potential trap and very difficult to read which probably made them responsible for most of the injuries which occurred on the locos in such incidents as collapsed crown sheets.  I had a go on one years ago on the Mid Hants and found it a very misleading engine to fire as you tend to think you've got a deep fire when in fact it is pretty thin - hence stopping for a blow-up in my case  

 

 

Some of the USA 0-6-0T's did get about (largley to WD establishments)  in the period between landing in the UK and setting off for the Continent post D-Day. Some years ago I took notes from a number of War Diaries, including these mentions of the USA tanks, but as the Diaries were for British units, they do not include any locos used in US Army depots:

 

1252 Newbury 26/4/43 [2]

1256 Long Marston 18/4/43 [2], left for Hedge End 5/5/43 [2];  Hedge End - involved in collision with lorry 21/8/43 [2]

1258 Long Marston 18/4/43 [2]

1260 Ashchurch 9/6/43 [2]

1261 being prepared Longmoor Nov 42 [1]; Thatcham in use 10/2/43 [2];

1262 at Thatcham 22/1/43 [2]

1263 being prepared Longmoor Nov 42 [1], Newbury 22/1/43 [2]; washing out at Thatcham 10/2/43 [2]; Newbury 18/2/43 [2],      ?/3/43 [2], 20/4/4/3 [2], 26/4/43 [2]

1264 at Thatcham 22/1/43 [2], stopped 10/2/43 [2];

1265 Newbury 20/4/43 [2], 26/4/43 [2]

1266 Ashchurch 9/6/43 [2]

1277 under repair at Reading (GW) MPD 22/1/43 [2], 10/2/43 [2],    Westbury - despatched to Tidworth 29/8/43 [2]

1278 working Kineton 16/2/43 [2], 16/4/43 [2], 27/5/43 [2];    unstated modifications completed at Swindon Works ?/8/43 - trials at Kineton ; Kineton 21/8/43 [2], 24/8/43 [2],  29/9/43 [2], 25/11/43 [2]

1279 Ashchurch 9/6/43 [2]

1280 working Kineton 16/2/43 [2], 16/4/43 [2]

1281 at Melbourne for depot service [1]; working Moreton on Lugg 25/2/43 [2], 3/5/43 [2], 24/6/43 [2], 26/7/43 [2]

1282 at Newbury 22/1/43 [2], 10/2/43 [2], 18/2/43 [2], ?/3/43  [2], 20/4/43 [2]

1283 working Kineton 16/2/43 [2], 16/4/4/3 [2]

1284 Westbury 2/2/43 [2], 19/3/43 [2], 3/6/43 [2], 21/7/43 for storage [2], 26/8/43 [2]

1285 arr'd Highbridge 15/1/43 [2]

1389 Long Marston 12 & 18/8/43 [2]

1392 Marchwood out of use 15/10/43 [2], 7/2/44 [3], 14/3/44 [3]

1393 S&MR 13/2/44 [3]

1395 Cairnryan 28/9/43 [2], 10/12/43 [2]; S&MR 13/2/44 [3], Kinnerley 9/5/44/[3]

1399 Expected at Kinnerley  /9/43 [2], S&MR 17/1/44 [3], 28/2/44   [3]

1405 Wem 21/6/43 [2]

1406 Wem 21/6/43 [2]

1407 Donnington 12/5/44 [3]

1414 On loan to Pollington Opencast 25/4/44 [3]; Catnall      ?/5/44 [3]

1413 On loan to Ashington Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1415 On loan to Pilsley Colliery ?/5/44 [3]

1416 On loan to Watnall Opencast 25/4/44 [3]

1418 On loan to Heanor Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1419  Arr'd Marchwood (ex Longmoor ?) 4/7/43 [2], 5/8/43 [2],  8/9/43 [2], 15/10/43 [2], 7/2/44 [3], 14/3/44 [3]

1422 On loan to Heanor Opencast 25/4/44 [3]

1424 Wem 21 & 27/6/43 [2]

1425 Wem 21 & 27/6/43 [2]

1426 Donnington 2/10/43 [2], 12/5/44 [3]

1427 Expected at Kinnerley  /9/43 [2], S&MR 17/1/44 [3], 13/2/44   [3], Kinnerley 9/5/44/[3]

1430 On loan to Kirby in Ashfield Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1432 On loan to Dinnington Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1433 On loan to Dragon Pit, Blaenavon ?/5/44 [3]

1435 Delivered direct from port to Blaenavon Opencast 8/3/44 [3]; Dragon Pit, Blaenavon ?/5/44 [3]

1436 On loan to Furnace Sidings, Blaenavon ?/5/44 [3]

1937 Moreton on Lugg 26/7/43 [2]

1940 Ran hot at Bristol before 16/7/43 [2], Westbury 21/7/43 [2],  26/8/43 [2]

1941 Arr'd Boughton ex Melbourne  1/7/43 [2], 25/9/43 [2]

1943 Arr'd Cairnryan ex Melbourne  28/9/43 [2], 10/12/43 [2];  arr'd Slough 29/2/44 [3], 3/5/44 [3]

1952 Donnington 2 & 9/10/43 [2], 12/5/44 [3]

1955 Feltham ?/10/43 [2], 12/11/43 [2], ?/12/43 [2], 12/1/44 [3], 23/3/44 [3], 2/5/44 [3]

1956 Lockerley 13/10/43 [2]

1957 Kineton - involved in collision with Wickham railcar and  trailer 10/11/43, repaired by 25/11/43 [2]

1961 Longmoor ?/?/43; arr'd Lockerley 17/8/43 [2], 13/10/43 [2]

1962 Donnington 12/5/44 [3]

1963 Westbury in store 26/8/43 [2]

1969 Barby 19/12/43 [2]

1974 Moreton on Lugg, newly arr'd 24/6/43 [2], 26/7/43 [2]

1975 Moreton on Lugg, newly arr'd 24/6/43 [2], 26/7/43 [2]

1988 On loan to Broomhill Colliery ?/5/44 [3]

1990 On loan to Digby Old Colliery Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1991 On loan to unstated Opencast site ?/4/44 [3], Linton Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1997 On loan to unstated Opencast site ?/4/44 [3], Linton Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

1998 On loan to Bennerley Opencast 25/4/44 [3]

1999 On loan to Heywood Opencast ?/5/44 [3]

 

 

References:

[1] - WO 165/106 - War Office, Directorate of Transportation  1942-46

[2] - WO 166/11859 - No 1 HQ Railway Detachments (Home) 1943

[3] - WO 166/15230 - No 1 HQ Railway Detachments 1944

 

When those on loan to opencast sites were withdrawn to be sent to France, they were largely replaced by Austerity 0-6-0ST's

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

I reckon they may all probably have been working in WD depots except those on loan to industry - Newbury was, I understand, a storage site although I hadn't heard about storage at Westbury unless they were in the army's large depot there and Westbury men who worked on S160s never mentioned working on the tank engines at all.  Always interesting to learn more about them.

[Michael Delamar]

A friend who fired them at the time they where over here at Liverpool said they where ok, but always commented that they only had 1 gauge glass.

[steve fay]

Ebbs junction,

What a line up, Tremorfa I believe.

Clive, thanks Ive already got that drawing.

[Alex Duckworth]

...and 4mm.

 

*prays fervently*

 

Actually I wouldn't mind one of these in 4mm either. Also looking at the drawings and thinking about a 2mm version.

 

Alex.

[The Stationmaster]

image.jpg

Ebbs junction,

image.jpg

What a line up, Tremorfa I believe.

Clive, thanks Ive already got that drawing.

The top one looks as if it could be Ebbw Jcn, taken from the roof of the factory.  The lower one is the ex Barry Railway line above Tonteg Jcn (just out of site in the right background) where the Up line was taken out of use and filled up with mechanically prepared S160s brought up from Ebbw Jcn for storage - the double line in the centre is the link down from the Barry to the TVR mainline - which is on the left.

[EddieB]

The top one looks as if it could be Ebbw Jcn, taken from the roof of the factory.  The lower one is the ex Barry Railway line above Tonteg Jcn (just out of site in the right background) where the Up line was taken out of use and filled up with mechanically prepared S160s brought up from Ebbw Jcn for storage - the double line in the centre is the link down from the Barry to the TVR mainline - which is on the left.

Both photos are reproduced in Tourrett's book, the first being Ebbw Junction in March 1944 and the second a single line of 119 locomotives at Treforest (Tonteg) in 1944.  Torrett notes that this site stretched from Tonteg Halt to just outside the South end of Treforest Tunnel, passing the (closed) former Barry Railway station of Treforest.

[The Stationmaster]

Both photos are reproduced in Tourrett's book, the first being Ebbw Junction in March 1944 and the second a single line of 119 locomotives at Treforest (Tonteg) in 1944.  Torrett notes that this site stretched from Tonteg Halt to just outside the South end of Treforest Tunnel, passing the (closed) former Barry Railway station of Treforest.

Although I doubt they stretched from Tonteg Halt as it lay south of the junction and thus would have blocked the connection down to the TVR main line (the central double track line in the lower picture above).  The tunnel incidentally was Pontypridd Tunnel (also known as Pwllgwaun Tunnel) as its northern end was just off the platforms at Pontypridd Graig station.  Overall that would have made the line about two miles long.

 

There is another published photo showing the line of locos further up the valley (I think it was either taken by Eric Mountford or was in his book about the S160s at Ebbw jcn although I'm not certain on that point).

[steve fay]

Something for your S160 to haul?

[jwealleans]

Somewhere I've seen some pictures of these still in use in Greece fairly recently.  There were also a couple in retirement on farms in France on a wagon forum, but that one melted down in a flame war last year.

[The Stationmaster]

image.jpg

Something for your S160 to haul?

Nice and handy for Ebbw Jcn of course!

[steve fay]

I've heard back from the California State Railroad museum, they sent me some additional pictures, I can't post due to copyright.

Still working away quietly.

[Horsetan]

Incidentally, I have found that the only part of the South Eastern Finecast USATC "S100" shunter kit that could conceivably be used on the S160 is the smokebox door, and even then it might be slightly too small!

 

There was I thinking that two wartime designs might benefit from standard parts in places, but no.........!

[EddieB]

Somewhere I've seen some pictures of these still in use in Greece fairly recently.  There were also a couple in retirement on farms in France on a wagon forum, but that one melted down in a flame war last year.

Not sure what you mean by "recently".  To the best of my knowledge operation of these locomotives in Greece finished during the 1970s, although no. 525 was returned to operational condition at Thessaloniki for an LCGB tour in 1980.  As I understand it, the locomotive was placed in store for a possible museum (I missed it when I visited Thessaloniki in 2001 and the LCGB preserved list notes that it could not be located during a 2004 visit) - there are no recent records of it being kept operational.  Happy to be corrected, but the only standard gauge steam locomotive in working order is a lambda-beta (WD) 2-10-0 based at Drama.

[jwealleans]

I can see that it wasn't completely clear, but I was referring to the tank wagons shown in post #44. I haven't been back to the pictures to check but I'm pretty sure they were taken post-2000.