Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi Chris Thank-you, I have seen it previously, but it was completely out of my mind and it is good to be reminded of it. Favourite now added I often remember I have seen something and for the life of me cannot remember where. I not be sure whether it is age or if I was always forgetful... ho hum another thing I cannot remember. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass0four Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi Chris Thank-you, I have seen it previously, but it was completely out of my mind and it is good to be reminded of it. Favourite now added I often remember I have seen something and for the life of me cannot remember where. I not be sure whether it is age or if I was always forgetful... ho hum another thing I cannot remember. Oddly enough, I was searching for it with Sasquatch in mind, but saw Chris had posted it. Like you, Kal, I'd forgotten where I'd seen it. Otherwise, signalling must be the most complex of subjects, not necessarily because of the system's complications, but because of the modifications made by different companies at different times. I've lost count of the critical remarks which sound more like a put-down than a constructive help. Having said which, I've also seen a great many where the constructive helper is almost nervous of raising an important point. Signals are one aspect of the hobby/obsession which brings out the best and worst IMnotsoHO. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The knighting pavements and illuminated bollards rmweb765kits1 the blue circles with an arrow are far to small to paint I think I will have to copy them and print them to make them half decent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) SO Peco track... I hear so often thati t is wrong for Uk outline...., well of course it is wrong, OO uses HO track and wheels sets. OK so without going to new wheel spacing we have a compromise. "But Peco is just so toy like" I hear people say... well I am only going to look at flextrack and see if all the dogma is really that true or is it just a rivet or too loose. First sleep length in UK is 8'6, but Peco is only 7'9 a deference of 9" or in scale terms 2.25mm or 1.125mm each side of the rails too short. Ok so C&L gives us 8'3 because 8'6 would look wrong so now we are talking just 6" difference or scale wise 1.5 mm across the length or 0.75mm each side of the rail. edit please read next post Is it worth the extra effort or cost yet? Ok lets look at spacing, according to Railtrack, track should have between 24 and 28 sleepers per 60ft MINIMUM in some cases, curves etc there should be more. The variation is based upon material used and whether the track is joined or continuous, but lets take an average as we are modellers not quantum engineers and say 26 sleepers per 60ft. I make that sleeper centres at approx 2ft4" which is scale about 9.3mm between centres. I now look at my stock peco track and find it is 7mm centres. ok so I am shy by 1.15 mm, 3 and bit inches in real terms, BUT do not forget I am not as wide as prototype so I need to take that into account. 16.5\18.83mm gives an aspect ratio of 0.876 9.3mm x 0.876 = 8.147 mm centres to keep everything correct. So the Peco track spacing is Only 1.147mm (about 3 real inches) too close, which you can correct if you really want by cutting the plastic between the track and moving the sleepers. So... despite the dogma it would appear they are not as far out as people say and with little cost can be improved. Add to that the fact they are flat bottom rails and no chairs..... as most rail since 1956 has been,.... what price hand made flexitrack? Turnouts are no doubt a much bigger story but for flexitrack, don't not let the track police fool you. please check my maths and assumptions and point out any errors , but from where I am standing, PECO track is not as toy like, as some would have you believe. OH and and Santa only wears RED because Coca Cola made it so... don't be mislead by dogma Edited February 20, 2014 by Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Additional INFO,....... I just thought the aspect ratio of 0.876..... if I transported that to sleeper length....... 8ft6" x 0.876 = 7ft 525 inches ... and and and..... that is the over the length of a peco sleeper SOOOOOOO,,, actually despite nearly being caught in the dogma myself PECO sleepers are the correct scale length. gotcha thinking....... theory is all very well, but please check mine to see what I am saying and correct if necessary!!! Edited February 20, 2014 by Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) ...but lets take an average as we are modellers not quantum engineers... Standards man, standards Edited February 20, 2014 by C&WR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I saw a mistake... I used 18.2 originally instead of 18.83 for gauge. I have corrected above.. So it would seem that despite what people may say the flexitrack itself is not so far out. Edited February 20, 2014 by Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And for some light relief...... THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT....... Langley models Punch and Judy show with Toby the dog. rmweb768kits2 The green crocodile and blue policeman hanging inside The baby in white is on the other inside piece rmweb769kits3 Toby the dog rmweb770kits4 a cruel close up rmweb771kits5 and put in to perspective rmweb772kits6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There's something about the top of the booth to the left of the one in the video that makes me think it's TSC's Godfather's one, which I modelled for Wallington... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There is a whole bundle of Punch and Judy videos on YouTube perhaps he is featured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 detailing....some oddments. I looked at these power boxes and thought this colour a good choice, but in fact it looks awful...so am going to repaint plain matt grey, hopeful the concrete base and black cable will look better too rmweb746details1 these bee hives look much better in real life and not too bad here, so should look really nice on the layout rmen766details2 This will end up in a garage, in Scripps at first though a bit modern if meant to be the 1960s, but as they store their props, these can be the real thing left out accidently rmweb767details3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There is a whole bundle of Punch and Judy videos on YouTube perhaps he is featured. The 17 minute one about The Big Grin 350 almost certainly has us in it - we were right in the thick of things when that was shot... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Amazing what doing Maths in all 3 dimensions reveals ......................... so many claims have been made on single dimension measurement basis by some of the "Track Police" ....... There was even a genuinely accidental claim posted, that model Locos were massively underweight, as they should be made to 1:76 of the weight of the 1:1 item .... ... [a mistake which was immediately recognised by the original poster - but in the meanwhile the "Wise Ones" had contributed their dogma about Loco Traction, Hornby/Bachmann inaccuracies etc. - they were surprisingly quiet about the subject, once the 3D calculations had been posted .... .... and not one of THEM apologised either ..... ] ,....... I just thought the aspect ratio of 0.85..... if I transported that to sleeper length....... 8ft6" x 0.85 = 7ft 3 inches and and and..... that is the over the length of a peco sleeper SOOOOOOO,,, actually despite nearly being caught in the dogma myself PECO sleepers are the correct scale length I didn't think Coca Cola was around then .... although many a pinch of salt is to be taken with Wikipedia, the sources below, seem good enough to cast doubt ...... This image became popular in the United States and Canada in the 19th century due to the significant influence of the 1823 poem "A Visit From St. Nicholas" and of caricaturist and political cartoonist Thomas Nast.[2][3][4] This image has been maintained and reinforced through song, radio, television, children's books and films. Father Christmas dates back as far as 16th century in England during the reign of Henry VIII, when he was pictured as a large man in green or scarlet robes lined with fur. ....................... ahhhhh ................. does that mean the .......... calculations .............. may ..... be ........................................................ ............... Nah ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think the idea that BOTH images red and green were in regular usage until the Coca Cola advert, at which time the RED one was spread by the advertising worldwide. So I suppose all the chinese and hong kong toys reflected that single image, etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well I chickened out, so Kal attacked the new ID. rmweb773newID5 photographed immediately after done, so needs a night to dry out. rmweb774newID6 Once it's dry he'll do the other side. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) the aspect ratio was a little out , I said 0.85 originally and it should be 8.76 based on 18.87mm vs 16.5mm 3.5 to 4mm ratio as pointed out by Jeff is 87.5 My error, however the corrected figures make peco even closer to prototype. People can argue about me using the ratio, but I think if you do it in just one dimension you distort things, so if you narrow the gauge, you also need to narrow the other dimensions. Anyways, I maybe alone, but that is how I will build from now on , it is based upon mathematic values rather than plucked from the air. All that said, I do still like hand built track and turnouts, but when I get round to doing some, it will be based on the above. If there is mathematics behind C&L or SMP 00 track, I apologise, I just cannot find anything that describes it. Edited February 20, 2014 by Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 SO Peco track... I hear so often thati t is wrong for Uk outline...., well of course it is wrong, OO uses HO track and wheels sets. OK so without going to new wheel spacing we have a compromise. .............. , but from where I am standing, PECO track is not as toy like, as some would have you believe. Painted and ballasted well, it can look very good. As you mention - it's all a compromise. My main compromise is 00 and Peco code 75 track and I'm happy with it. Life's too short for some things. Crack on, lay some track and play trains. Cheers, Mick OH and and Santa only wears RED because Coca Cola made it so... don't be mislead by dogma Good job Santa isn't yellow - it'd be Christmas every day for me. Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 And for some light relief...... THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT....... Langley models Punch and Judy show with Toby the dog. rmweb768kits2 The green crocodile and blue policeman hanging inside The baby in white is on the other inside piece rmweb769kits3 Toby the dog rmweb770kits4 a cruel close up rmweb771kits5 and put in to perspective rmweb772kits6 Is that last photo the world renowned "Jaz(z) Hand"?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well said Kal... if you do it in just one dimension you distort things, ........... try a single dimension size reduction on a 100 ton Loco ........ ie. / 76 .......................... 2947.368 lbs ...................... even those ancient inch by 4 inch "Trusses" would struggle at that ....... which suggests an inaccurate calculation .... Scale it in 3D and it becomes ... 0.5102 of one lb .................... which rather makes most models in OO slightly overweight ....... but not very far out compared to the original weight calculation ... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well it's not Kal's...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Painted and ballasted well, it can look very good. As you mention - it's all a compromise. My main compromise is 00 and Peco code 75 track and I'm happy with it. Life's too short for some things. Crack on, lay some track and play trains. Cheers, Mick Good job Santa isn't yellow - it'd be Christmas every day for me. Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 acg_mr .................................. Boy do you know how to live dangerously ............................... how long have you been modelling trains and can't ............. Is that last photo the world renowned "Jaz(z) Hand"?? ...................................... recognise the "Hand of "G**" when you see it .................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Where's the "bowing down in prayer" emoticon?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack374 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Speaking of emoticons...how do you give the 3 that show up on your ratings (useful, creative and dislike) as sometimes these would be useful? Edited February 20, 2014 by Jack374 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 Where's the "bowing down in prayer" emoticon?? This is probably more appropriate. or Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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