Great Western Railway coaches

[Neal Ball]

With the debate about coaches and liveries raging at the moment (see separate Poll) if we could present a united front we might be able to influence the RTR manufacturers to produce some new GWR coaches. Admittedly these are my choices, but what would you buy? - Have I left a scetion of important coaches out that should have been included?

 

 

56 & 57ft Toplight stock - Built from 1907 with lots of variety over the years; Bars 1; Bars 2; 70ft Toplights, non-corridor the variety is almost endless

 

69ft 11 1/4 in Toplight corridor and non corridor stock - Built from 1908 onwards with some stock lasting through to the mid 1950's and even a couple into 1960

 

70ft Dreadnought stock - Built from 1904 with the last being withdrawn around easrly / mid 1950's

 

Bow ended stock 1922 to 1934 - Suburban non corridor stock 61ft 4 1/2in 9ft 3in wide lasting through to 1963

 

The Super Saloons were built in 1931 and were the GWR equivalent to the Pullman stock. Mainly used on boat trains and race day specials to Newbury. - Very specialist, but they lasted into the mid 1960s - Three are preserved at Didcot.

 

1935 Excursion stock built from 1935 onwards until finally being withdrawn in 1966.

 

Centenary stock - built from 1935 for the Cornish Riveria Express. Whilst Hornby have had a couple in the range for years, it is my view that they could be re-launched in the same way as the Pullmans have been recently, to include lighting etc. full range of coaches though please!

 

Autotrailers - there is huge variety within the ones produced by the railway under Diagram Axx - Suggest for the Poll series those built between 1929 and 1933 remaining in service until 1960

 

Brown vehicles - Newspapers; parcels; Fruit; basically anything that could be hooked onto a passenger train.

 

Steam Railmoter - does not satisfy the need to maximise variety, none lasted into the BR days. At a cost of (say) UKP 50 / UKP 75 would you buy one?

 

I have added Clerestory stock in. Built before the 1900's, and would have seen considerable use throught the GWR period, some lasting as long as 1950

 

and also B set coaches Diagram E129 - built from 1926 and in service until 1961 - Bow ended close couple - would you buy these as a pair? - Probably.

 

4 wheel coaches and 4 and 6 wheel brown vehicles now added

[gwrrob]

Excellent idea Neal.Unfortunately it won't let me vote in more than one catagory in the second list and I want them all !

[Neal Ball]

Excellent idea Neal.Unfortunately it won't let me vote in more than one catagory in the second list and I want them all !

 

 

Done! - I wonder what response there will be. - Any ommissions that need to be rectified?

 

Thanks Rob,

[The Stationmaster]

Done! - I wonder what response there will be. - Any ommissions that need to be rectified?

 

Thanks Rob,

 

Seems to work ok now Neal as it just accepted my 4 votes in the second section. I do wonder if the choice is so wide that it might split the votes too much but if it does help to narrow the field it will still be well worthwhile I reckon.

 

And I did wonder if it was entirely fair to vote for Siphons in view of the fairly considerable stock of them (Airfix and Lima) lurking in my 'to do one day' boxes

 

BTW I do wonder about the Centenaries and Super Saloons (even if a chair from one of the latter was my office chair at one time)as they were very heavily route restricted and would be out of place on most layouts.

[Miss Prism]

One of the problems with stock in a typical GWR train, whether express, cross-country or branch, is that although the composition of a train is usually set in terms of the type of accomodation/facilities provided (brakes, 3rds, compos, etc), the choice of the actual stock used was dictated by the loading gauge for the route, with for example no Dreadnoughts or Riviera stock on secondary lines. The 'era' of each coach in the train, which is what your poll is predicated on, was not a primary consideration. Thus clerestories, Toplights, and Colletts would for example co-exist in a typical train. Trains composed entirely of a certain era of coach were the exception: B-sets and some non-corridor sets, in the main. RTR manufacturers tend to concentrate a product range on a specific era, to limit their development costs. This focus really doesn't suit a typical GWR portrayal.

 

With Hornby now concentrating on Hawksworth corridors, it is highly unlikely we'll see a revamp of the long-lasting staple of early 57' Collett corridor stock in the near future. Apparently Slaters weren't particularly pleased with the sales of their Toplight and Clerestory kits, and esoterics like the long Dreadnoughts and Concertinas are a non-starter in RTR commercial terms. (The Airfix Centenaries were always a weird choice.) Bachmann do a couple of late Colletts. There aren't many commercial gaps left, taking into account what is available kitwise from Comet etc.

 

If I was a manufacturer, kit or RTR, I think I'd look at the brown vehicles, specifically the short 6-wheel siphons, where the obvious single choice is the O4 diagram. (Just look at the prices now commanded for the D&S kit.)

 

A B-set revamp would be popular I feel, but as a difference to the Airfix E140, I'd go for an E116. (The E116 was the old K's kit.)

[Neal Ball]

I included the Centenary on the basis that they have been in the range for an age and could do with some update work. Plus then the selection could be easily expanded. Whilst limited RA, we all run them, or they are in unopened boxes somewhere!

 

I have also added Clerestory coaches as an option.

[gwrrob]

I included the Centenary on the basis that they have been in the range for an age and could do with some update work. Plus then the selection could be easily expanded. Whilst limited RA, we all run them, or they are in unopened boxes somewhere!

 

I would welcome the correct handed brake as much as any.It would save me building the Comet version. I do like your idea of interiors with table lamps lit like the Pullmans.Very nice.There does seem to be loads on ebay !

[gwrrob]

 

 

A B-set revamp would be popular I feel, but as a difference to the Airfix E140, I'd go for an E116. (The E116 was the old K's kit.)

 

How about the E147 flat ended version with a nicely detailed underframe like the Maunsells. :icon_drool:

[Neal Ball]

How about the E147 bow ended version with a nicely detailed underframe like the Maunsells.

 

 

B Set Diagram E147 now added

 

To add a vote for the extra coach, you will need to delete your votes first. It then allows you to start over with new votes.

[Neal Ball]

..... Apparently Slaters weren't particularly pleased with the sales of their Toplight and Clerestory kits, ...........

 

That is a shame, I have two Toplights, they are great kits. Bit fiddly in parts and I found the corridor did not fit very well, but both great additions to my Fleet. Could do with getting some more.

[Coombe Barton]

Neal

 

I want to vote only for autotrailers

 

But it's insisting I use the second section of the poll, which is irrelevant for my choice.

 

Can we say something in the second part that says 'not applicable'

[buffalo]

How about the E147 flat ended version with a nicely detailed underframe like the Maunsells

 

I've nothing against the later flat ended stock but, if you want B-sets, it would make more sense to go for the early varieties like E116 and E129. That would push the earliest date back by up to ten years whilst losing no more than a year or two at the end of their lives. Not only that, there's an opportunity for a wider range of liveries as the early steel sided varieties could be made with painted pseudo panelling.

 

Nick

[gwrrob]

I've nothing against the later flat ended stock but, if you want B-sets, it would make more sense to go for the early varieties like E116 and E129. That would push the earliest date back by up to ten years whilst losing no more than a year or two at the end of their lives. Not only that, there's an opportunity for a wider range of liveries as the early steel sided varieties could be made with painted pseudo panelling.

 

Nick

 

I agree Nick but I thought the Airfix/Hornby model was the E129 diagram.I was thinking of something not made before.

[Neal Ball]

Neal

 

I want to vote only for autotrailers

 

But it's insisting I use the second section of the poll, which is irrelevant for my choice.

 

Can we say something in the second part that says 'not applicable'

 

Done!

[Neal Ball]

I've nothing against the later flat ended stock but, if you want B-sets, it would make more sense to go for the early varieties like E116 and E129. That would push the earliest date back by up to ten years whilst losing no more than a year or two at the end of their lives. Not only that, there's an opportunity for a wider range of liveries as the early steel sided varieties could be made with painted pseudo panelling.

 

Nick

 

 

Done! - Changed to E129 - there was only one vote and that was mine!

[Guest Phil]

Neal

 

I know your thread title is only GWR coaches, but do you not think that BR(WR) is relevant ? As in the other thread Miss Prism explained that the train from Moretonhamstead included a post Nationalisation Swindon built vehicle in the rake of three.

 

It is your thread and poll, and I have voted, but would have liked a BR (Swindon built) Non-Corridor (whatever the diagram was).

 

Thanks

[Penrhos1920]

Following the Dreadnought was the Concertina stock, Dreadnought with recessed doors for each compartment. By clerestory do you mean corridor or non-corridor version? In the 1920s there were some long distance trains formed of non-corridor clerestorys: Newport to Aberystwyth via South and Mid Wales for example.

 

Personnally I'd pay ??100+ for a steam railmotor.

 

Oh and there was the London Suburban non corridor Toplight stock that I'd also buy in 1920s lake livery as an excursion through Penrhos.

[gwrrob]

 

Personnally I'd pay ??100+ for a steam railmotor.

 

 

 

Your'e not the only one !

[Neal Ball]

Your'e not the only one !

 

 

Admittedly I was being conservative at UKP 50, But UKP 100? - Does it need to be that expensive? - I've no idea how the costings work out, but I would have thought UKP 75 would get a good quality Railmoter???

[gwrrob]

Admittedly I was being conservative at UKP 50, But UKP 100? - Does it need to be that expensive? - I've no idea how the costings work out, but I would have thought UKP 75 would get a good quality Railmoter???

 

Maybe so Neal but how much to build a paint the Nucast one to a decent standard.

[Penrhos1920]

Well a Hornby single coach DMU costs about ??60 and a tank loco with full outside valve gear costs ??70. So they might cost ??75 I agree, but even if they cost ??100 I'd buy one, it is still cheaper than buying the Blacksmith kits at ??80 ish and getting it made..

 

Admittedly I was being conservative at UKP 50, But UKP 100? - Does it need to be that expensive? - I've no idea how the costings work out, but I would have thought UKP 75 would get a good quality Railmoter???

[Guest Phil]

The Walschaerts valve gear on a railmotor is tiny !!!!!

The paint job is intricate !!!

 

 

If an 0-6-0 diesel hydraulic with just connecting rods retails for well over 100 pounds, then a railmotor with full valve gear and an intricate paintjob must be more !!!!

 

 

I'd settle for some non-corridor 3rds in all over BR crimson me !!!!

[Mikkel]

One of the problems with stock in a typical GWR train, whether express, cross-country or branch, is that although the composition of a train is usually set in terms of the type of accomodation/facilities provided (brakes, 3rds, compos, etc), the choice of the actual stock used was dictated by the loading gauge for the route, with for example no Dreadnoughts or Riviera stock on secondary lines. The 'era' of each coach in the train, which is what your poll is predicated on, was not a primary consideration. Thus clerestories, Toplights, and Colletts would for example co-exist in a typical train. Trains composed entirely of a certain era of coach were the exception: B-sets and some non-corridor sets, in the main. RTR manufacturers tend to concentrate a product range on a specific era, to limit their development costs. This focus really doesn't suit a typical GWR portrayal.

 

A very important point there by Miss P, I think.

 

I was thinking whether GWR 4-wheelers should be added to the poll... (since the Ratio kits seem to have sold well for ages, and Farish had a set of N vehicles out in GWR livery, and the 4-wheelers lasted long, including for latter-day workmen's trains)... but then perhaps not, since I suppose the market may well be saturated by now.

 

So a vote for Toplights from me, and thanks Neal for yet another interesting poll.

 

PS: Can we have 4/6 wheel siphons added to the second list please, so we have a bit more than the G and H to choose from (which are already available RTR).

[Neal Ball]

 

I was thinking whether GWR 4-wheelers should be added to the poll...

 

So a vote for Toplights from me, and thanks Neal for yet another interesting poll.

 

PS: Can we have 4/6 wheel siphons added to the second list please, so we have a bit more than the G and H to choose from (which are already available RTR).

 

I have now added the 4 wheel (Ratio type) coaches and also 4 and 6 wheel Brown vehicles.

 

If you have already voted, to amend, delete your vote and it will let you vote again,

 

Thanks Neal.

[Neal Ball]

Well a Hornby single coach DMU costs about ??60 and a tank loco with full outside valve gear costs ??70. So they might cost ??75 I agree, but even if they cost ??100 I'd buy one, it is still cheaper than buying the Blacksmith kits at ??80 ish and getting it made..

 

 

 

 

Point taken - you can tell I don't need to price anything at work!