A New Start

[Kal]

Hi

 

As it is used in most new build houses and other buildings these days, finding offcuts from a tame builder would be a thrifty way to go , or raiding a skip as you go past. For models even small off cuts can be useful.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Kal

[jcredfer]

Re Celotex / Kingspan  ....  

 

The likes of Jewson, Sydenhams [do you have them near you?], Travis Perkins etc have smaller 50mm sheets, about 1200 x 600 if memory serves.

They also have the same Length / Width in 80mm too.

[C&WR]

Aha, I see!  I didn't know what it physically was, thought it might have been something to go on the 'Rover...

[C&WR]

Blast!  Having measured the tow hook it is a scale 12" long.  Just too big.  Besides, the bit of lolly stick was the wrong kind of plastic so didn't bond with model glue.

 

I've been working something up with wire as I couldn't file down styrene small enough, but it's proving difficult.  I'll get there...

[jcredfer]

How about winding some thin wire round a thin bit of Styrene and twist the ends together, Apply superglue to the coils and then snip through the ring with wire cutters.

 

Edit.  The twist bits might then fit in a small hole to attach it to the rear chassis plate.

 

Edited January 19, 2014 by jcredfer

[Alister_G]

Just caught up with this. Like I said on AV, you've made a stonking job of the Landie, love the detailing you've done - such a shame most of it is hidden.

 

No reflection on you, but the Airfix representation of the Series 3 Land Rover is really poor, the front especially is just wrong, the front wings are too long, and the wrong shape - the curve is far too accentuated, they look more like Series 1 wings.

 

This is a Series Three SWB:

 

 

and here's the detail of the front wings:

 

 

When all's said and done, you've made a great job of what you have, it's just a shame Airfix(Hornby)  can't get it right after 40 years.

[MikeOxon]

MikeOxon...that sounds interesting can you pop up a picture?

Here's a cable tie masquerading as a sand box.  Being another 'impressionist' modeller, I think it's fine

 

 

Mike

[emt_911]

Mike

 

That's one bit of re-use that I wouldn't have considered.  

 

Duncan

[C&WR]

Thanks, all.  I can just see what you mean, Al, when I go back to the kit.  Mike's sand boxes look very good as well & if I can find the correct sized zip ties may also solve my wing box dilemma if I make another FFR.

 

Julian, you have, I think, solved my problem with the tow hook.  I was going to wrap wire round a bit of 1mm styrene rod, but the stuff I had is too hard to bend neatly.  I had fabricated just a basic hook, but the carpet monster got it.  What I hadn't thought about was repeated turns of wire - this can be done with the insides of bag ties which by themselves wouldn't be sturdy enough.  As with the downpipes above the free ends can be twisted together & then fitted into a hole drilled with a tiny bit.

[Jaz]

Mike Oxon

Smart idea (tucks it into mental notepad) thank you for sharing.

 

 

oooh pooh The Salt weathering technique 

Oh sugar lumps another thread I have to follow and read...........

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jaz

[C&WR]

Just  a quick post to mention some fantastic customer service I recently received.  I have been on the look out for some Airfix 4T Bedford MK/MJs to make a little convoy packet.  These seemed to be going on the web for over £10 a pop, which was more than I planned to spend, especially as one is going to be hacked up to make a Ptarmigan Radio Relay truck.

 

I then discovered Transport Models in Preston.  They supplied three of the things at £6 each with postage at £3.50.  These were beautifully packed & arrived in two days.  No connection, just a very happy customer.

 

As for what I've been up to there may be a tank museum on one of my layouts at some point:

 

 

It takes a lot of work to make a paint job look this awful:

 

 

Obviously still a few bits to add...

[Jaz]

Have you a picture of an original?

[jcredfer]

Oh  ....   golly gosh  .....

 

there may be a tank museum on one of my layouts at some point:

 I am so sorry, I hadn't realised you were quite that old  .......    

 

 

Ok, seriously now, the Tank Museum is a great idea, particularly if located on an old Tank Barracks, with a Rail Link, to drive Tanks up the Ramp onto trucks and off the side  .....   

[Alister_G]

# Oh, Mathilda, won't you marry me... #

 

 

Poor old ugly duckling...

[jcredfer]

It looks as though that Yellow and Green tank has been "Out on the Town" and rather overdone the imbibing. is it named "Waltzing Matilda"  .....    

[C&WR]

Thanks, all!

 

Have you a picture of an original?

 

Hereby hangs a problem.  I have been unable to find a reference picture in colour of the original scheme.  Having researched this it is something which drives modellers nuts!  I quote from a message I had elsewhere:

 

Colours are an interesting issue that has sparked off many debates. There is a much-photographed preserved Matilda II that has been repeatedly repainted since it became a museum exhibit, and the consensus of opinion is that the base yellow is far too vividly, almost canary, yellow and almost certainly inaccurate for WW2 Africa. As this tends to crop up a lot when doing a photo search, it is a good argument for looking at lots of photos and referring to lots of sources and then making an intelligent guess.

 

This is the one to which he refers, I think:

 

 

Note that on this the grey/green comes over the wings on both sides, the Airfix kit painting instructions only have this on one:

 

 

What complicates things is that British armour in North Africa broke the rules far more often than it respected them - there were more pressing concerns than matching regulation colour schemes, and as everything needed to be shipped out from Britain, there were far more important things to put into the cargo ships than drums of paint! The famous Caunter Scheme was born out of desperation, expediency, and hodgepodged together from what was immediately available in theatre. 

 

A lot of it wasn't even Army issue: the blue you are representing was scrounged from RAF stores in Egypt and the Middle East, and the greys came from Royal Navy surplus - there wasn't much call for repainting battleships, and the Navy had a very big surplus on its hands. (The RAF blue was the standard sky-blue finish used on the underside of aircraft; Duck Egg Blue, I think the name was. A pale blue with a hint of green).

 

Also, don't forget strong sunlight bleaches paint: if a vehicle survived that long, desert yellow faded to a nondescript yellow-white.  Another factor to bear in mind is that after the shattering defeat of the Italians in February 1941, a lot of Italian stores fell into British hands, and this included substantial amounts of Italian camouflage paint. Italian desert yellow was noticeably more yellow than the corresponding British or German shade, and a lot of it found its way onto British tanks. The shade of yellow on your Matilda looks very Italian Desert Yellow!

 

Again the Airfix instructions differ from the preserved version as the dark colour is olive green whereas it is battleship grey in most of the modern pictures.  Other preserved ones look more like the kit box, though, so here we hit something similar to the literary theory of intertextuality - are the preserved tanks painted as they are because that's how they used to be or because of the Airfix box?  Is the Airfix box realistic because that's how the tanks were?

 

Overall the view I am getting from military modellers is that I'm making a fairly decent fist of this, pace my errors in technique.  I am also using up the paint I have available rather than buying more for the tiny amounts i need here.  Finally I fall back on the "it's my model & this is how this one looked at one point" defence

[C&WR]

A quick clarification following a very helpful PM from Jaz.  The model Matilda's scheme may not look like the preserved one, but this is the point.  No one is completely sure what hues they actually were as there are no contemporaneous reference pictures in colour!

 

The pic was also taken under tungsten light, and while I did tinker with the white balance I've not yet set up a custom setting for my new home where these were done.  I also in post-production brought up some of the hue and saturation settings to show off the chipping.  

 

Having discovered that enamel paint doesn't really work properly with salt masking (it is best with acrylics) I couldn't just chip and brush away gently after immersion in warm water.  What you see here is the result of a good ten minutes with a nail brush!  The real thing is in much more washed-out shades.

 

Finally as I said above I am using the paints I have rather than buying more specifically for this kit.  It is intended as a test-bed, although ironically having consulted my memory, my reference pictures and with a former Soldier in my Regiment our vehicles never got into the parlous state beloved of many modern modellers.  Sure they got filthy on exercise, but we were constantly inspected and therefore the things were painted over and over.  I wouldn't be surprised to find my tank was actually about an inch taller than it was supposed to be thanks to all the layers of paint...

 

Edit to add:

 

Having looked a bit further it appears a gentleman named Mike Starmer is an expert in the field.  He says:

 

 

 However about November 1940 a new scheme was specified in G.O 297.  This scheme comprised the tri-coloured disruptive designs now known as ‘Caunter Scheme’.  Very many AFVs and softskins carried this scheme of Portland Stone No.64 basic with Silver Grey No. 28 and Slate No.34 or Khaki Green No. 3 in angular disruptive stripes.  Period G.Os specify Light Stone No.61 or Portland Stone No.64 at various times and a local variation may have substituted a mixed light blue-grey for Silver Grey No. 28.

 

His mixing instructions for Silver Grey No 28 suggest:

 

Silver Grey No. 28

Mix:  Humbrol 74 + 145 in ratio 5:2, or 74 + 34 + touch 27approx.

WEM ARB08 is very good match.

In Use:  Caunter scheme in M.E. and as disruptive colour for a period.

Description:  Neither silver nor grey but a medium yellow-green, fades to blue-grey in extreme.

 

My duck-egg blue is probably wrong, but in Wartime & with weathering who knows!

Edited January 24, 2014 by C&WR

[jcredfer]

Hi G&WR,

Dad was 5 years in Egypt, as a Tank Engineer and as an aside, was given one of the first of the Sherman Tanks to arrive [i gather he didn't consider it to be the best of Christmas Presents]. The Yanks had somehow omitted to include Maintenance Manuals. Together with a couple of Engineers with different specialities, they were instructed to take the thing to bits, to find out how it worked and write Instruction Manuals for Maintenance teams throughout N Africa. Later to train newcomers how to Service all the various Tanks, so that they could go back to their Units and train others too.

 

Back to your  ...

 

vehicles never got into the parlous state beloved of many modern modelers.  Sure they got filthy on exercise, but we were constantly inspected and therefore the things were painted over and over.

 

This was certainly his recollection, as items which were not looked after, soon became useless in that environment - from Feet to Tanks.

He did also note that, in between conflicts, things were sometimes stripped down or repainted to "keep the Chaps occupied" a fact not apparently lost on the recipients!

 

He recalls inspections too and the frequency certainly had some effect on his attitude to life once returned to the UK. One such remembrance was of the Hussars Reg't getting an Inspection from a feller with Scrambled Egg spilt all over his hat. The activity was pretty frenzied, so the guy must have pretty far up the Totem Pole Staff. Just before the visitor's car swept in, they replaced the Gate Guards with suitably glowing "Booted and Spurred" items - not only were they perfectly turned out in Best No 1 - they were carried out there by a couple of other soldiers, placed on newly brushed ground and attended by men with cloths until just before the Brass arrived, so as not to have the slightest speck of dust to besmirch the reputation of the Reg't.

I gather that he concluded that it was taking the principle of "Care" a little far.

[Kal]

J

 

Never really thought about it, but having read this you make a very good point, certainly in my day, all Military equipment was well painted and maintained, overly in many cases.

 

Washed, pressed and starched DPM combats, which destroyed the infrared properties and made fantastic sharp lines that you would never see in nature.

While out on Purple Star in the USA (UK's first major EX in USA since Independence), I even remember one suby Rupe who felt that the Telegraph Rebro, looked wrong sat out above the rest of the Dets and insisted that it be lined up circled wagons like the cowboys used to do and show the "spams" how Regimental and organised Brits could be...  All this despite protestations from the the radops, bleeps and wobbly heads.

Well he was the boss,  at least until the CO and RSM turned up to see...  (as any of you will know, this is a very unusual thing for these two people to do ) ...why the hell they could not achieve comms between the airheads.

Lol.... I will leave the rest to your  imagination.....  

Edited January 24, 2014 by Kal

[C&WR]

Here you are, substantially done less touching in, transfers & weathering.  Having done further research I extended the camouflage to both sides of the tank:

 

 

Picture taken outside in shade from really good sun - e've been blessed for a country walk as part of the party!

[Kal]

Hi

 

I think the picture, allows a much fairer representation of the Tank. The problem I have is when viewing it, is the first think that grabs you, is just how duck ugly the colour scheme is and then you  are prejudiced straight off. 

 

You have to see through that, to see the modelling, and when you can separate the two, you get a differing opinion on the reproduction, which is actually good.

 

It does explain how most of us tend to make our models to our ideal of what we expect to see, rather than, what is actually there, which is why so many layouts look pristine.

 

Look forward to see it running over the Punch and Judy stand  

Edited January 25, 2014 by Kal

[C&WR]

Have you seen the Berlin cam? I'd have a pop at it if I could afford the Tamiya tape!

[Alister_G]

I think it was a quote from Captain Liddell Hart, or maybe one of the other Tank engineers, who described the Matilda as "the ugly duckling", not only because it looked plug-ugly but because it waddled everywhere

 

I don't think it was ever considered a favourite, and mechanically it was horribly complicated to maintain.

[C&WR]

Ugly Duckling? The duck egg blue was right!

[jcredfer]

Hi G&WR,

Is that the Urban Camouflage developed in Berlin by a Royal Dragoon Guards Officer?

 

 

Berlin cam

 

It was a really strange looking affair, with a number tried before settling on the size for the rectangles. Colours apparently ended up as White, Brown, Grey and Black.

 

 

I had this little lot breathing right down my neck on my last Allied Forces Day Parade    ................................................     put a whole new perspective on shouting orders, with those engines bellowing behind  ...........    

 

!983 Parade Camo Tanks by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

Pic - Ex Military LR Assoc.