Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Edwardian]

Just for completeness, here are a couple of not very flattering pictures of the two after I had re-done the broad arrows.

 

Two Front.JPG

 

Two behind.JPG

 

At normal size the arrows do not look too bad.

 

I spoke to the lady as I was repainting her and she was quite disappointed that I did not remove the arrows altogether.  Apparently her name is Mary Anstruther and she has been found guilty of Embezzlement., Conspiracy to Embezzle and Obstructing a Police Inquiry.  The man would not talk to me only grunted but she told me that he was Harold McNulty, and despite his name comes from London.  He was found guilty of the above plus Resisting Arrest, he broke an arresting officer's nose.  She says she was in a loveless marriage and fell helplessly in love with him and he persuaded her t do what she did.  She was given 5 years and he was given nine.  Her husband, complained to the authorities that he did not want her in a prison near him, so they moved her to Caernarfon Prison.  They then decided that he should be tried for perjury, and that she should stand trial as well.  They moved him so that she would not have to move prisons again and they are just going back to Caernarfon from Dolgelley having both been found guilty and sentenced to another year each.  No evidence was offered against Mary Anstruther this time but it was felt that she must have known he was perjuring himself and never said anything.  Of course the legal facts of the case my be a little hazy but then it is hard trying to listen to someone who is only 23mm tall.  Others on this thread my be able to advise and also the likelihood of her getting out early for good behaviour.

 

Here was I hoping she was a suspected poisoner.  It's the romantic in me.

[ChrisN]

Here was I hoping she was a suspected poisoner.  It's the romantic in me.

 

I understand poisoners never had their sentence commuted.  I dare not say anything about changing her back story, she looks worried enough as it is.

[Edwardian]

I understand poisoners never had their sentence commuted. 

 

Which is why I said "suspected", not "convicted"!

[ChrisN]

As this topic is still subtitled 'Building Coaches', not 'Painting little grey people' I suppose I ought to show building some coaches.  I think I said I had received these:-

 

 

Nice quick build I thought, no effort, and no making your own bits, I thought.  Well, not quite.  This is not a complaint, but you do have to make certain bits, but nothing really difficult.

 

 

This is what the sections look like.  They needed a good scrub and a bit of a file.  Lots of nice detail.

 

 

I glued one end and a side together.  They were held together until dry with York Modelling's 90 deg magnets, checked with a set square.  Having done this I measured the inside length and width and cut the floor from 30 thou plasticard.  I then glued the two sections together and when dry fettled the floor to fit.

 

 

Measured out three partitions on 30 thou plasticard and used the end to mark the shape of the roof on it.  You see them here with the tops cut to get closer to the line.  The bottoms had to be notched to fit the ridge in the side, seen above, which holds the floor in the right place.  Then general filing to fit and get the shape.  You note one has 'narrow end' the other 'wide end'.  Just a tiny fraction, not enough to notice unless trying to slot something in!  Well, there should be more but I have not downloaded the photos from my camera, to my surprise.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Edwardian]

As this topic is still subtitled 'Building Coaches', not 'Painting little grey people' I suppose I ought to show building some coaches.  I think I said I had received these:-

 

Packets.JPG

 

Nice quick build I thought, no effort, and no making your own bits, I thought.  Well, not quite.  This is not a complaint, but you do have to make certain bits, but nothing really difficult.

 

Sections.JPG

 

This is what the sections look like.  They needed a good scrub and a bit of a file.  Lots of nice detail.

 

Body.JPG

 

I glued one end and a side together.  They were held together until dry with York Modelling's 90 deg magnets, checked with a set square.  Having done this I measured the inside length and width and cut the floor from 30 thou plasticard.  I then glued the two sections together and when dry fettled the floor to fit.

 

Partitions.JPG

 

Measured out three partitions on 30 thou plasticard and used the end to mark the shape of the roof on it.  You see them here with the tops cut to get closer to the line.  The bottoms had to be notched to fit the ridge in the side, seen above, which holds the floor in the right place.  Then general filing to fit and get the shape.  You note one has 'narrow end' the other 'wide end'.  Just a tiny fraction, not enough to notice unless trying to slot something in!  Well, there should be more but I have not downloaded the photos from my camera, to my surprise.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Excellent.  I am very tempted by these.

[corneliuslundie]

"You note one has 'narrow end' the other 'wide end'."

I was told recently by a volunteer on the Talyllyn Railway that one of the ex Corris carriages is 2.5 inches wider one end than the other, so you are in good company.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Excellent.  I am very tempted by these.

 

They are nice kits and fit together well, they just leave you to do some bits yourself.  The roof will be interesting, but I shall leave that until I get there.  The cost is reasonable too.

[ChrisN]

"You note one has 'narrow end' the other 'wide end'."

I was told recently by a volunteer on the Talyllyn Railway that one of the ex Corris carriages is 2.5 inches wider one end than the other, so you are in good company.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Well my difference is less than a quarter of a mil so a lot less than 2¹/₂".  Perhaps I am more finescale than I thought.

[ChrisN]

 

Here I have filed the compartment tops and superglued them in.  I had thought it would be easier to leave them out and glue the seats to them first.  I realised quite quickly that this was not the wisest of moves, so once they were in I measured and cut up using a needle saw some Ratio seats.  These needed notches at the bottom to fit them over the ridge at the side.  Penlan has a thread on how high are passengers in coaches and these seats seemed to site them at the right height, although the coach is actually quite low, and wide.  Before they were glued in they were marked for the arm rests.  Glued in using Limonene and when dry 1mm rod was cut for the arms.  I worked on the basis that although my left eye causes everything to appear crooked lining up the arms by eye was better than the measurement as the seats are not cut completely accurately.  I have tried to make certain that they are equally spaced and opposite each other.

Even though called a 'Saloon' it is in fact two compartments with two large luggage compartments.  Interesting but not what I expected.  Also being 1860s there is no toilet.

 

 

Not necessarily the best of pictures but I will do more and better later.  The springs and axle boxes came as one piece so each of the four were filed clean of flash.  One end behind the axle boxes was drilled to fit top hat bearings.  The other end there is an MJT rocking unit supplied.  This folded up fine but I did not realise until I had done that that the slits on the unit needed opening out to fit the prongs from the base plate.  It would have been easier to do this if it had been flat.  I got there in the end using various needle files.  I checked that the springs did not foul this and then glued all four in place. 

 

There was a surprising amount of modelling in doing the above two simple tasks. 

 

 

Here are the family, on their way from Oak Hill to see the young Englishman at Ty Mawr.  They would not tell me their names, perhaps Gary will ask them for me,)  but I understand that the nanny, holding the baby is Mrs Charter.  The gentleman did tell me that the reason he hired this particular coach is that he father hired it to go on honeymoon.  The company he said had to be persuaded to let him have it as it has no brakes so he has had to hire a guards van as well as a carriage wagon and, a horsebox.  He says he knows Ty Mawr is halfway up a mountain but he is going to keep it on the coast so that they can explore the coastline.

I spoke to his wife and asked her if she thought it was romantic to hire her father-in-laws honeymoon coach.  She replied with a face and voice without expression which I think was more than the fact she is a pewter model covered in Halfords grey primer:-

"Oh, I think it is a wonderful idea to hire something that is over fifty years old, ('Only thirty dear,') which has seats that have not be upholstered in years, with no brakes so we are constantly having to hold on for dear life, no heating and no toilets, to go to Wales in the middle of March to see a friend who lives half way up a mountain in a local cottage."

"Not a cottage dear, a large house, bought from an Earl who sold it when he became short of money."

"Umm, yes, most likely spent his money trying to keep the place warm."

 

I left them to it.  I am a bit concerned that the little girl will be thrown about as she insists on standing up, oh well.  Here they are trying it out.

 

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ChrisN

[BlueLightning]

It's looking good Chris, you are progressing faster than I am with their future selves!! They all have names but I'm not sure I am happy with them so they shall stay secret for a while longer!!

 

Gary

[Mikkel]

Looks good Chris, it's refreshing to see coaches from that period. And nice to see you've managed to make good use of the Ratio seats, they never seem to fit into anything! 

 

Mrs X sounds a little snarky. She needs to lighten up a little and enjoy the view!

[ChrisN]

It's looking good Chris, you are progressing faster than I am with their future selves!! They all have names but I'm not sure I am happy with them so they shall stay secret for a while longer!!

 

Gary

 

Gary,

I might just have to ask the young Englishman, I am sure he will tell me. 

[ChrisN]

Looks good Chris, it's refreshing to see coaches from that period. And nice to see you've managed to make good use of the Ratio seats, they never seem to fit into anything! 

 

Mrs X sounds a little snarky. She needs to lighten up a little and enjoy the view!

 

Mikkel,

I have used Ratio seats before, you just need to cut them to the right length so they fit!    

 

I did this at least a couple of weeks ago and cannot remember if I shortened them but the little people sit on them with no trouble.  I have more coaches to do and may well need some more of them.

 

As for Mrs X.  They left home probably the day before yesterday.  They may well have had to stay overnight in a hotel in or near London as it is an all day journey from London to Traeth Mawr.  I am not sure how the coach would have got from south of London to the north, or who would have taken it from there.  There are still connections around the west of London, and again through the centre of London by tunnel, but which one would they use?  I will need to send a letter to the LB&SCR and ask.  I think, probably, Clapham Junction, Wilsden, then LNWR northwards.  I could look at Bradshaws 1895 and get a timetable.  Which line was Oak Hill on?

 

Right yes, so here she is in a cold compartment, having to jump out for the toilet, lunch etc.  I think hiring an up to date coach with a toilet, and chance to see her children occasionally, but not for too long, is more in line with her idea of fun.  Still, never mind she has the trip up the valley in the narrow gauge train to look forward to.  At least they are through braked!

[BlueLightning]

Which line was Oak Hill on?

 

Oak Hill is on its own fictional branch line that connects with the real world at Groombridge, LB&SCR services heading to London via the Oxted Line then the Brighton Main Line and SER services via the Hastings Line and then the South Eastern Main Line.

 

Gary

[corneliuslundie]

My "funny" was for the text, not the modelling, which is looking great. I do like the dialogue between you and your friend from the deep south.

Jonathaan

[ChrisN]

Oak Hill is on its own fictional branch line that connects with the real world at Groombridge, LB&SCR services heading to London via the Oxted Line then the Brighton Main Line and SER services via the Hastings Line and then the South Eastern Main Line.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

Thank you.  I have checked through Bradshaws and it would appear that they would have to stay in London overnight.  I will try and look tomorrow and see how they would get there.

[ChrisN]

Warning- This is not a modelling post.  I have been doing some wiring for the layout as I am desperately trying to get it put back up.  I had set aside Saturday to do some as unusually my wife was at work but I found myself on a Skype call helping my son do his maths homework.  (He is married and doing an MSc but needs 'A' level maths for it).  I had just finished when my wife came home. 

 

However, in non modelling periods just before bed, I have been going through the December 1895 Bradshaws.  Mr X, (he changed his name to this so that he could sue the 'News of the World' for defamation), is travelling in March 1895 so the timetable will be slightly different, although I have a Cambrian WTT for the correct period.  It has been said on another thread that Sherlock Holmes would consult Bradshaws and very quickly find the times of trains to almost anywhere, and that it is not so easy in real life, so the work of Conan Doyle has a fair degree of fiction.......

 

To be fair once you have found the right timetables and got your head round the different annotations, got the right high powered glasses on, (even the reprints which have larger print can be quite difficult), and got the book in enough light then it is fairly straightforward.

 

So the X family leave Oak Hill on a sunny but cold Wednesday 17th March 1895.  I could not find the time of their train as the page with the Oak Hill branch on it had been mysteriously ripped out of my copy.  However, I assume they made it to Goombridge by 9:37.  They get put on the back of a train to Victoria and go to Clapham Junction.

 

Groombridge            9:37am

Clapham Junction    10:29am

 

I assumed they would be taken forward by the LNWR as that is the company that is most likely to take them to Wales so we are looking for the Clapham Junction to Willsden Junction line.  This is on completely the other side of Clapham Junction to where they came in so the next available train is:-

 

Clapham Junction                      11:23am

Willsden Junction (Low Level)   11:43am

 

Trains to the north pass through the Junction so soon they could be on an express:

 

Willsden Junction           1:42pm

Shrewsbury                     5:20pm

 

That works I thought.  Most of the way there, I thought.  Only need to get to Welshpool and then good old Cambrian will have them there by lunchtime.  Umm, no.  Shrewsbury to Welshpool, no problem, but unless they are going to leave at stupid o'clock it does not work.  The train from Welshpool to Machynlleth does not get in until 12:45pm, 15 minutes after the train leaves to go up the Coast route.  This is a wonderful piece of timetabling as there is hardly anything on the coast route.  There are no other trains from Welshpool until the one bringing the through coaches from Euston, which does have a connecting Coast service and that will arrive at Traeth Mawr at 18:20pm.

 

Right I thought can they go from Clapham Junction on the LSWR line to Reading and then north, will that get them there any earlier.  Short answer, no.  They get to Birmingham at about 7:10pm and even if they get up early and catch the 8:05am to get them to Ruabon bt 10:35am, they still cannot get a train to Traeth Mawr until the express arrives with the through coaches and they get to their destination at 18:55pm. 

 

So this is how they do it, (if anyone else has better or more information then please say.

 

Groombridge                              9:37am

Clapham Junction                     10:29am

 

 

Clapham Junction                      11:23am

Willsden Junction (Low Level)   11:43am

 

Willsden Junction                        12:13pm

Euston                                         12:25pm

 

All jump out and find the hotel they had booked into.  Mrs X pops off to Oxford Street, (was Selfridges open then?)  for some shopping.

 

Refreshed and rested back to Euston for the Express North.

 

Euston                                         9:30am

Traeth Mawr                               18:20pm

 

Is that any easier than sending your luggage ahead, travelling to London, hotel overnight, train the next day?  Admittedly it does not take your carriage and horse with you.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[BlueLightning]

I love it Chris! I wish I could manage this level of research. If it helps you with working things out Oak Hill is roughly 4mi from Groombridge following the route of the line. Although I havn'e done a proper timetable as such I would imagine the service they would have got to Groombridge would have been the train that ran to Eridge to meet with services to London, Brighton and Eastbourne. This would have been hauled by the smaller of the Manning Wardles based on the line at this time, the rest of the stock in the train would have been of 1860's vintage as the line was not very profitable at this time and so did not get much in the way of new stock.

 

In fact I may have even found a picture of the front of the train they took, assuming their carriage was on the back to save shunting at Groombridge!

 

Gary

 

PS. Breaking character for a second I really must get round to finishing the 1860's stock and paint the Manning Wardle!!

[ChrisN]

I love it Chris! I wish I could manage this level of research. If it helps you with working things out Oak Hill is roughly 4mi from Groombridge following the route of the line. Although I havn'e done a proper timetable as such I would imagine the service they would have got to Groombridge would have been the train that ran to Eridge to meet with services to London, Brighton and Eastbourne. This would have been hauled by the smaller of the Manning Wardles based on the line at this time, the rest of the stock in the train would have been of 1860's vintage as the line was not very profitable at this time and so did not get much in the way of new stock.

 

In fact I may have even found a picture of the front of the train they took, assuming their carriage was on the back to save shunting at Groombridge!

2017-09-02 23.52.58.jpg

 

Gary

 

PS. Breaking character for a second I really must get round to finishing the 1860's stock and paint the Manning Wardle!!

 

Gary,

I do like that picture.  As for the research, having bought/been given for Christmas a couple of years ago an 1895 Bradshaws it was easy to look up what went where.  The working timetable was from photos by Mark Austin of this parish who regularly goes the the Records Office at Kew.  The difficult bit was the light and the right glasses.

 

Middleton Press do 1895 and 1912 so I cannot even photocopy the right ones for you.  A lot changed in those years.

 

I do find it fascinating though just how the railways treated their customers.  Some really tried to lead the way with new comforts while others, or even the same ones did really silly things, like connecting trains leaving before the train it connects with.  (No, I do not spend my time reading Bradshaws as a rule.)

[BlueLightning]

I should try and get copies at some point. The 1912 one especially would come in handy for my other layout!!

 

Gary

[Mikkel]

That's a really nice way of setting a layout (two layouts!) into context Chris. So, we are now expecting a similar exercise for each and every passenger on your layout!

[Donw]

Nice modelling Chris and I love the Bradshaws stuff. You haven't considered Routing via the GWR in London. The route to Shrewsbury was shorter via the GWR and there is also the option of the Dolgelley route. 

Victorian Passengers were made of sterner stuff than passengers today I think.

 

Don

[MikeOxon]

was Selfridges open then?.............

 

Afraid not - the Oxford Street store opened in 1909.

 

I'm surprised you managed to find Traeth Mawr in your Bradshaw.  I've never managed to find North Leigh but I wonder if Sir John Wilcote and family ever took a sea-bathing holiday in Wales?  Perhaps, i could trace a route from Oxford, from where he might have used his special train.

[Anotheran]

I really like the travel tale Chris. It's good that they remembered the details of the changes when relating the details of it to you. But I think that they must have miss-remembered the weather on the day that they left as cold. After the sharp frosts in the first few days of the month (after a very cold winter throughout the country) by the middle of the month the weather was described as fair and temperatures in the south were above the 20 year average (1871-1890). Just a couple of days after the journey Hereford reached the dizzy high of 66 degrees. In Wales, particularly in the West, temperatures remained below the average, so it's not surprising that they remember the journey as being so cold! The sunny start was probably correct though as there was less rain than normal in the South. But considerably more than average once they got to their destination.

 

It could have been a lot worse... they could have gone in February!

 

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/content/assets/mohippo/pdf/s/3/mar1895.pdf

 

Does that count as rivet counting?

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

That's a really nice way of setting a layout (two layouts!) into context Chris. So, we are now expecting a similar exercise for each and every passenger on your layout!

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  Thereare a certain amount of histories for the people who populate the layout.  It is a product of a too vivid imagination although I try and thik about these things when I am not in modelling time.  As I do not have a station yet then I cannot say what the history of all the peope is, but everyone has a name.  I intend to try and photograph each one so I can remember who they are!  ind you, I do not think I am the first to do this.