MikeTrice Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I would appreciate second opinions on the following images. I have attempted to scratchbuild some vacuum pipes for my 6 wheel NER coach. The main pipework is 0.8mm brass, the hose some old W&T wire and tube, tube. From the photographs the mounting brackets are too thick, and it shows. The idea is to add styrene strip to the coach end to represent the mounting straps of the bracket. Solder needs to be cleaned up. A search of t'Internet found very little information relating the vac pipes and they are mentioned in passing in various modelling articles but no great details given. I do not feel that the Markits/Romford wound ones or turned variety really look the part and would prefer to avoid whitemetal for strength reasons. Any other suggestions? Also how do you mount them? A couple of prototype photos for comparison. On these units the pipe is bent lower down the vertical pipe than is more common and I am begining to wonder if my hose is too thick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 ....I would look at the Lanarkshire Model Supplies range for the pipes and if necessary scrawk some brass strip from thin brass sheet for the mounts. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2014 The low rent option; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-100-X-VACUUM-PIPES-FOR-OO-GAUGE-LOCOS-ROLLING-STOCK-/291115354423?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item43c7d3c937 Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I confess to not much liking cast vac' pipes; they resist being shaped to take the form that real pipes are given to get them clear of draw hooks. The wound wire things Markits (and Romford before them) produced look like nothing on earth. If I have to make them myself I follow Iain Rice's ideas on the matter which is much what Mike has done but finer - I use 0.7mm brass wire and some filament wire from a defunct pair of headphones. This assembly has a spigot of 0.7mm wire let into a hole in the end - the clips and joins are represented using strips of shim while the brackets on the body are made in plastic. Just representing the shape of the thing is what I do for pipes that hang below the buffer beam (more usual in the BR period I model) and these really can be representative rather than fully modelled. As I use three-links I generally solder these to a piece of 0.5mm wire let into the headstock to emulate the dummy. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I have wound my own by wrapping 41swg phospher bronze wire around some .75 mm brass rod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 The low rent option; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-100-X-VACUUM-PIPES-FOR-OO-GAUGE-LOCOS-ROLLING-STOCK-/291115354423?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item43c7d3c937 Mike. I bought some from that very supplier. They were all same handed as opposed to left and right, and the bend came in the wrong place. There is also the question of how to firmly mount them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Adam, the use of 0.7mm looks much better. I agree that the strapping needs to be finer and will have a go at cutting some of my own. What is not apparent from my photos is the upper bracket actually sticks out at the back and has been filled down to fit in a hole drilled through the coach end. Hopefully will have another go later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 ....I would look at the Lanarkshire Model Supplies range for the pipes and if necessary scrawk some brass strip from thin brass sheet for the mounts. Dave Whitemetal from the look of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I would appreciate second opinions on the following images. I have attempted to scratchbuild some vacuum pipes for my 6 wheel NER coach. The main pipework is 0.8mm brass, the hose some old W&T wire and tube, tube. IMG_5177.JPG IMG_5178.JPG IMG_5180.JPG From the photographs the mounting brackets are too thick, and it shows. The idea is to add styrene strip to the coach end to represent the mounting straps of the bracket. Solder needs to be cleaned up. A search of t'Internet found very little information relating the vac pipes and they are mentioned in passing in various modelling articles but no great details given. I do not feel that the Markits/Romford wound ones or turned variety really look the part and would prefer to avoid whitemetal for strength reasons. Any other suggestions? Also how do you mount them? A couple of prototype photos for comparison. On these units the pipe is bent lower down the vertical pipe than is more common and I am begining to wonder if my hose is too thick. IMG_1370.JPG IMG_1412.JPG Hi Mike, I've not much to contribute to the topic, but I would like to see more picture of your coach. From the glimpses shown here it looks to be a cracker! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Thanks Colin, but I suspect you have already seen it under this topic: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81902-completing-the-4mm-ner-6-wheel-coach/ I could have raised these questions under that topic but suspected more people would look at it if the topic title was more relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 From what I can tell the pipework for vac pipes is 2.5" in diameter (2" bore) which would make 0.8mm for the brass closer than either 0.7 or 0.75mm. The hose should be 2.5" x 2'2" so my hose at 1.28mm is far too wide. Perhaps just thinning the brackets and hose will make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Whitemetal from the look of them. Yes Mike, they are whitemetal but a modern strong and malleable whitemetal not the brittle stuff of old. Lanarkshire Models vac pipes can be bent to form the kinky ones easily, I do it myself. I even bend the hanging type to sit on the rest sometimes. Pipe is 0.9mm and the hose is 0.85mm. Hope that helps, Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Thanks Dave, they do look nice. How do you fix them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Hi Mike, personally I use a Cyano called ZAP, (the medium one). It glues well to most plastics so no Mekpak is needed on the plastic beforehand unlike most 'superglues', just a small drop on the whitemetal and hold the item on for a few seconds. The vac pipes have a mounting plate that goes behind the bufferbeam so the glue area is good. All the best, Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Mk2 design: The hose wrappings could be neater, still I am getting there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 A quick update. Having made two vac pipes using different materials I found myself constantly comparing them with Dave's uploaded photo of his cast vac pipes. In the end I thought I might as well give them a go and ordered some Sunday night. I did have concerns: Would the casting quality be as good as his photo? Would they be the right height? Would I get a firm enough fixing? My package arrived this morning (Wednesday) and the results speak for themselves. Very happy customer. My first two concerns proved groundless. I am still not certain about the third, but have some ideas. Unfortunately my headstocks are too thick to use the provided mounting plate. P.S. Yes I did mount it off centre which was only really evident in the photos but I have since rectified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yes Mike, they are whitemetal but a modern strong and malleable whitemetal not the brittle stuff of old. Lanarkshire Models vac pipes can be bent to form the kinky ones easily, I do it myself. I even bend the hanging type to sit on the rest sometimes. Vacuum Pipes.jpg Pipe is 0.9mm and the hose is 0.85mm. Hope that helps, Dave Franks. Thanks for the order for these Dave and the tip for the Zap-A-Gap Cyano. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 There's this as well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 In an attempt to fix the LMS Vac Pipe a little more firmly I have drilled a 0.5mm hole through the back of the bracket and superglued a short length of 0.5mm brass wire into the hole. A hole in the coach end to receive it should give it a little more strength: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2014 What period is the coach to be finished as? I would have thought for the vast majority of it's life it would have been Westinghouse only fitted, perhaps getting additional vacuum gear later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Paul, that is a good question for which I don't have a good answer. I am tempted to finish it in NER livery from around 1900 but will probably chicken out and do it in LNER plain teak brown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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