60091 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 So...after a few false starts here it is - Sunderland South Stabling Point. The inspiration being the sidings to the south of Sunderland Station. This is an area I've looked at for a possible layout for over 20 years. As always compromise, in this instance, to fit onto the available baseboards, means the area to be modelled has been slightly reduced.The track plan is similar to the original location but with the main line reduced to a step ladder and the two longest sidings unfortunately shortened by approx. 1ft. The three "missing" sidings were actually removed at some time before the 1980s.Hopefully I'll get away with "Sunderland South" by assuming a town the size of Sunderland could have had two stations. The original Sunderland Station building will also be moved 50-60yds further south to be included in the model.The large multi storey car park, built after the map was produced (and now demolished) will also be moved nearer to the sidings to create a "modern image" backscene.This is a small part of the area to be modelled and the photograph, taken in 1986, provided more inspiration, although in reality the area was seldom so busy. I saw this location for many years and the sidings were almost always empty, possibly only coming to life if there was pw work planned in the area.1987The reason behind the layout is to build a (very elaborate) test track. Initially to try and run a collection of old locos. Any that run ok will be stripped down and rebuilt - others will be disposed of. The locos are a give way to the time I'm modelling - 1985-95. Plenty of nice liveries and still a good variety of classes in existence.Operating will be very limited with only 3 small (1ft) hidden sidings. Initially the plan is to move locos around the layout plus use an 08 to shunt a few parcels vans or pw wagons. All movement is restricted by the short length of track which acts as a headshunt . The solution (not planned as yet) - a bolt on 2ft fiddle yard at each end which would not only increase movement in the sidings, but would also allow a 2 car DMU Newcastle-Hartlepool-Middlesborough service to be run. The entrance to the sidings and part of the multi storey car park in the photo on the right.To end the introduction... This topic comes with a (health) warning. This is the classic "fail to plan-plan to fail" method of construction!... in addition to which-the layout is being built at minimum cost, using as much reclaimed material as possible, as well as lots of other bits and pieces I've had lying around unused for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_1066 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 There appears to be a problem with your pictures (at least for me there is) as there aren't any Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby (John) Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nor me......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nobby and jon_1066... pictures restored! There was a problem when I came to post the new topic. I ended up posting it twice thinking that the internet stopped working after I pressed the post button. No idea where the pictures disappeared to...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 This looks like an interesting project. Look forward to seeing your track plan, in due course. Meantime I thought you might like this pic of Sunderland South Dock shed, although a tad early for your selected time period. This is 1981. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 This looks like an interesting project. Look forward to seeing your track plan, in due course. Meantime I thought you might like this pic of Sunderland South Dock shed, although a tad early for your selected time period. This is 1981. Sunderland 8.2.81.jpg Mal Hi Mal Nice photo. Always liked the "split box" 37s. Wished I'd have visited the shed a few years earlier - all 56s with the occasional 37 by the time I got there in 1986. Also just missed the end of the 21t vac/unfitted coal trains. 1986 I did grab these shots at Ryhope Grange despite it being almost dark... I think these were shale trips heading for Seabanks? This was, IIRC, October 86. Don't think I saw another similar working after this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 This is a final rough sketch of the track plan. 0/10 for draughtsmanship but it's all I need to start work. Overall size 6ft x 3ft 8ins. 1ft 2" at the left hand end with the long front forming a curve following the line of the car park. Although it's overlayed on a map, the area has been slightly compressed because I have to work with a 6ft baseboard. The original Sunderland Station which is just off the left hand side of the map will be repositioned on the bridge (shaded red) and the car park will be moved forward from the shaded black area to approx. the black dotted line. There's no fiddle yard but there are three small hidden sidings (black track) which are big enough to hold a single loco. The biggest drawback to operating the layout will be the very short length of track available to shunt the sidings. This runs through the "up" Newcastle platform and is only 1ft 3ins long. This is the location in 1989 and in 1999 by which time the area was becoming increasingly more overgrown. It's final regular use seems to have been for briefly stabling multiple units in between workings to/from the town. The large building in the background of the first photo is the award winning 1960s designed Civic Centre. Although I've called it Sunderland South Stabling Point, I've only ever heard the location called "the sidings at the south end of Sunderland Station"!, Originally there were also carriage sidings and a turntable on the site as well as a double track main line up to Fawcett St Junction. However, despite the new layout being" yet another stabling point", for me, the attraction of the location has always been it's small area enclosed by lots of interesting angles with convenient tunnels and bridges at either end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Wow, that picture of the 47s has so much atmosphere that you almost smell the clag! I've noticed that on Google Maps it does look as if the sidings have been altered/refurbished relatively recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Cuckoo Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Whenever I used the carpark I always thought the area would make a good layout due to its enclosed location. I look forward to seeing this develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Wow, that picture of the 47s has so much atmosphere that you almost smell the clag! I've noticed that on Google Maps it does look as if the sidings have been altered/refurbished relatively recently. Hello bennyboy That picture gave me plenty of inspiration but it was a rare occasion to see three locos. The 47 had arrived to rescue the failed 56. Not sure what 37100 was doing there although it was a regular at Sunderland South Dock Shed around that time. Yes, the whole location was altered, the sidings were refurbished and reduced to two. Most dramatic was the reinstatement of the double track line to carry the Tyne and Wear Metro through Sunderland and along the south bank of the River Wear to South Hylton. I went back to Sunderland to take a few photos for reference and was surprised how much had changed. Most noticeable was the removal of the car park. I don't suppose the remaining sidings see much use and although they are clear of vegetation, nature is taking over the rest of the site. This is taken from approx. the same position as the Class 156 in the previous post. Lots of trees and bushes, car park gone, double track Metro line to South Hylton and two sidings. In the foreground are the two tracks of the Durham Coast Line, looking south. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Whenever I used the carpark I always thought the area would make a good layout due to its enclosed location. I look forward to seeing this develop. Hi The_Cuckoo I had this location in mind for a long time. I was able to get a photocopies of the map and they've been kept in my " track layouts " file, probably since the late 80s. As you mentioned what interested me was - the enclosed location, also the curved sidings which will give an unusual shape to the layout and framed by the curved car park which gives an definite "modern image" look to the location. I also thought this area, from the south end of Sunderland Station to Mowbray Park Tunnel, would make a fantastic club layout for anyone interested in running north eastern stock. It's is an incredibly compact site which could easily be modelled to scale. It's a fairly simple track plan, as was rationalised IIRC about 1966 when the connection up to Fawcett St Jct was severed...and ...the variety of stock which could be run!!! This is the pre rationalised layout... A layout built and run to represent the mid 1950s-60s could include everything from G5s to ex LNER Pacifics. Diesels- early DMUs and 03s to Deltics. What would be needed is a very large fiddle yard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 I have jsut seen this mentioned in your S&C N gauge thread, so I thought I better have a look - and Im glad I did Im totally unfamiliar with the prototype, but the first few pictures make it look rather appealing to me ! Hi Mickey Thanks for looking in! Finally got the new topic started after promising the S&C gang (for several months) that it was coming soon and after S&C 79-83, I don't think I could have chosen a greater contrast in location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoover50008 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hello bennyboy That picture gave me plenty of inspiration but it was a rare occasion to see three locos. The 47 had arrived to rescue the failed 56. Not sure what 37100 was doing there although it was a regular at Sunderland South Dock Shed around that time. Yes, the whole location was altered, the sidings were refurbished and reduced to two. Most dramatic was the reinstatement of the double track line to carry the Tyne and Wear Metro through Sunderland and along the south bank of the River Wear to South Hylton. I went back to Sunderland to take a few photos for reference and was surprised how much had changed. Most noticeable was the removal of the car park. I don't suppose the remaining sidings see much use and although they are clear of vegetation, nature is taking over the rest of the site. IMG_7639.JPG This is taken from approx. the same position as the Class 156 in the previous post. Lots of trees and bushes, car park gone, double track Metro line to South Hylton and two sidings. In the foreground are the two tracks of the Durham Coast Line, looking south. Wow what a difference hardly recognizable now. Watching this one with interest. E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Fail to Plan-Plan to Fail. The Tale of Sunderland North Dock Shed Here's a quick post to move things along. I'll try and do a few quick posts to catch up with how far the layout has actually developed. This is how it all started -" the fail to plan - plan to fail" theory of layout building. In the beginning... what I needed was a new test track. [ The original test track!! I'd read various posts on the site comparing the merits of older 00 diesels to newer models. Although opinions were mixed, the majority seemed to say that older locos could still be rebuilt to look ok even though they often didn't run as well. I thought the time had come to test my surviving locos and see which, if any, could be salvaged. My main concern is, that they'll have to be made to work because I can't afford to replace them on a one to one basis, with new models. My original test track was useless. A piece of plain track and a point tacked to a sheet of Sundela. I thought..." I can do better than this".. and so Sunderland North Dock Shed was born. Two sheets of Sundela quickly attached (I hate baseboard joints!)... well braced as always. Size 6ft x 1ft 6in..ish. Sundela Remember...this is how not to build a layout. However, I've been using this stuff for years and never had a problem. Maybe because - 1) it's definitely all been the old original product, - 2) it's always been stored I dry conditions and 3) it's always very well braced using 2"x1" timbers - original 1980s construction methods! Next.... out comes a lot of old reclaimed track ... track plan -no idea...except it's going to be a diesel shed... and a few sidings Now this is getting ridiculous... you can hardly see the baseboard under all that trackwork...and sure enough the end result is what I call... track saturation.... However, undeterred, I continue. The wiring goes in. Usually an afterthought for me and as usual it's a plate of spaghetti... ....and there's even a control panel-of sorts. Not what most people would call a control panel but, for me, this is the height of sophistication. I still haven't realised his isn't going to work.... this layout just doesn't look right... the track plan is all wrong... onwards ever onwards...To the scenery... Ok - time to STOP! Back to the drawing board. I have a plan... I remember a location which would make a great layout. The sidings at the south end of Sunderland Station. Sunderland North Dock Shed will become Sunderland South Stabling Point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Good work so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Hi mate, Just been catching up. The new plan looks really good it's a great location too. I look forwards to your progress, I am sure it wont be long before your old class 56s are pottering about the shed. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted August 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2014 Looks a good place for a layout–the tunnels and bridges are particularly useful. My memories of this area in the early to mid 1980s is that it was generally used for stabling DMUs off the Newcastle to Sunderland service: almost invariably 2-car 101s at that time, mostly in blue rather than blue/grey, before the 143s came along. Suspect you were very lucky to see so many locos there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Now this is my sort of layout, Grids on shed and set in the north east...lovely stuff! I am looking forward to seeing this one develop. I used to love the high numbered Grids, they were always up in the north east and very hard for us southerners to see. I think that is why I used to like them so much. On my first ever visit to Toton, 56130 was inside the shed, I was very pleased to see her! Look forward to seeing your next update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2014 An interesting track plan and location. The grotty looking car park, with the overgrown track makes an interesting topic and model potential. Good mix of railway buildings as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hi mate, Just been catching up. The new plan looks really good it's a great location too. I look forwards to your progress, I am sure it wont be long before your old class 56s are pottering about the shed. Cheers Peter. Hello Peter Thanks for having a look at the new layout.... got the 00 topic started at last. Sunderland North Dock was definitely a false start. There was never any real plan at all! Even while I was working furiously away on it, I knew it wasn't going to work. All my layouts in the past were based, maybe sometimes only vaguely, on original track plans and Sunderland South will be no exception. With an original track plan to follow, this time I can't go wrong...?? At the moment progress on the layout is running slightly ahead of the posts so I'll try and quickly catch up on here then start posting as construction proceeds. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Good work so far Thanks Class 66.... ... but sadly it all came to a dead end with Sunderland North Dock. Time to get out the hammer and chisel and clear the baseboards for Sunderland South Stabling Point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 An interesting track plan and location. The grotty looking car park, with the overgrown track makes an interesting topic and model potential. Good mix of railway buildings as well. Hi mudmagnet ... yes these were all factors in finally choosing to model the location - and the unbelievably compact site. Also, I won't be sticking too closely to the 1985-95 period so if I can get enough of the old locos working well, there'll be 1978-80 BR blue running on Sunderland South as well. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Looks a good place for a layout–the tunnels and bridges are particularly useful. My memories of this area in the early to mid 1980s is that it was generally used for stabling DMUs off the Newcastle to Sunderland service: almost invariably 2-car 101s at that time, mostly in blue rather than blue/grey, before the 143s came along. Suspect you were very lucky to see so many locos there. Good evening D9020 I was living and working away from the North East up until 1986. When I was in the area before then, sadly, I was more interested in collecting numbers on the ECML at Durham and Newcastle or at Thornaby Shed. Never "wasted time" on the Durham Coast Line, at Sunderland South Dock Shed or visiting the many collieries that were still working, and so missed much of the final years of the traditional north eastern rail network. As you mentioned, the Class 143s had arrived by 1986 although they were failing at an alarming rate. Still plenty of 101s around for several years, including some amazing amalgamations with other classes. Stabling units from local services seems to have been the main use for the sidings. However for most of the time they were empty. Locos were always a rarity, apart from a couple of months when the loco off the Sunderland parcels spent a couple of hours there in between running round the stock. 47660 in (I think) 1987. 47653 coming off the parcels and proceeding to the sidings. 1987 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Now this is my sort of layout, Grids on shed and set in the north east...lovely stuff! I am looking forward to seeing this one develop. I used to love the high numbered Grids, they were always up in the north east and very hard for us southerners to see. I think that is why I used to like them so much. On my first ever visit to Toton, 56130 was inside the shed, I was very pleased to see her! Look forward to seeing your next update. Hello Grimleygrid Thanks for having a look at Sunderland South. First I just want to say - great work on Boxenby. I'm always looking in to see how things are progressing. Despite being 60091, the Class 56s are my real favourites, and despite 112-135 being regulars for many years, they are my favourite batch. In the north east IIRC it was the Roumanian ones that were scarce. I also remember 076 hanging around long after the rest of the original NE batch had moved on. Apparently it was know locally as "Blyth Powerless" because of it's rather poor performance and chronic problems. Starting again in 00 after many years I had to have somewhere to run my 56s. Hauling 32 HAAs wasn't really an option, so "another" stabling point it had to be! However, hope you enjoy progress on the layout. I'll try and keep things entertaining with random, Class 56 photos.. They did occasionally get a break from mgr work... 56124 Ryhope Grange Jct and loops. Always a good spot to photograph 56s running around their trains. 1989 56112 track relaying work at Seaburn to the north of Sunderland 1995. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Great pics and I love the comments regarding 'Blyth Power', my favourite 56. I remember buying a Palitoy Mainline 56 when it was first released and remumbering it from 56079 to 56076. 56s could usually be found out-stationed at Blyth Cambois TMD. Here are a couple of pics. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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