Vallejo Acrylic Paints

[MikeTrice]

I thought it was worth starting a topic on these paints having used them with a degree of success on my Bachmann Emily conversion.

Yes, they have been mentioned in other posts but mainly in terms of what people use and how the various manufacturers products compare.

When painting Emily I was fairly random on what products I used with them and some were more successful than others. What I should have done of course is try some experiments first and adjust my product combinations accordingly, but I am a basically impatient person and thought I knew better. How wrong I was.

So rather belatedly I have started a number of experiments and will post the results over the next few weeks. Although Acrylics appear to dry quickly this is a deception and they can take a considerable time to fully harden. My first piece of advice (which I did not follow myself) is do some research first.

With Emily I used Halford's Plastic Primer (rather too much one might say) then sprayed Vallejo Model Color thinned with water over it. Other colours were brush painted. I found some variation in the finish of the colours (some are more matt than others). Where I brush painted black over the primer constant handling cause the edges to rub off (a common issue with Vallejo apparently). Where I sprayed some different makes of varnish over the colours they seemed to stay "sticky", Vallejo varnishes on the other hand are beautiful to use, so the moral might be to stick to the one manufacturer's products.

I know I am not the only user of these paints on RMWeb, so please feel free to add experiences, good or bad.

On one of my searches on the Internet I found a fellow who used cheap plastic spoons to test the various paints and primers on and this seemed like a good idea, so I have my spoons at the ready.

So what experiments spoons have I got underway as I write this?

 

• Brush painted with Vallejo Acrylic Polyurethane Surface Primer - 2 coats
• Spoon sanded with 400 grit wet and dry and then brush painted with Vallejo Acrylic Polyurethane Surface Primer - 2 coats

Note: Remember me mentioning research? Vallejo Acrylic Primer must be left for a minimum of 48 hours to cure or the surface with scrape off with a finger nail. Likewise any attempt to sand it before 48hrs will result in the primer peeling off. You must shake the primer for a while to ensure the various ingredients are mixed correctly.

 

• Vallejo primer as above but sprayed on a standard spoon. In line with best practice no thinning of the primer was performed in order to Airbrush.
• Humbrol AD6001 Acylic Primer sprayed on standard spoon
• Halford's Grey Plastic Primer sprayed on standard spoon
• Halford's Grey Plastic Primer sprayed on keyed spoon (rubbed with 400 grit wet and dry)
• Halford's Filler PRimer on standard spoon
• Halford's plastic primer on keyed spoon then sprayed with Vallejo Flat Green thinned as I did with Emily using water and Vallejo retarding medium
• Halford's plastic primer on keyed spoon then sprayed with Vallejo Flat Green thinned with Klear (roughly 50/50 and sprays nicely. Slightly silkier finish than straight Vallejo which is really matt.

 

Note: Thinning with water probably weakens the strength of the Vallejo paint and I read that using Klear as a thinner made the resulting paint very tough. There is also mention on another site that spraying Klear over Vallejo's primer results in it being able to be sanded after 15 minutes rather than the 48hrs mentioned. Untested. Alternative thinners are planned for testing.

 

I should add that in addition to the above I have used Klear before as a varnish layer and it does seem to work well.

 

So that is enough for tonight, hope it is a topic that proves useful. Don't be surprised if you start seeing photos of coloured spoons

 

 

[MikeTrice]

While I think of it Vallejo does not generally like thinning products that include alcohol which can cause it to go lumpy. Vallejo also produce an Airbrush Cleaner which works very well.

 

I am lucky as I can buy my paints from Ian Allan in London, however I have had no problem ordering them online and getting them posted unlike enamels

Edited March 11, 2015 by MikeTrice

[hmrspaul]

Boyes shops are widely distributed (see their website) and if the central York one is representative they do a good range of Vallejo paints (and much else of modelling interest as well).

 

Paul

[Greengiant]

I use Vallejo Air, thining it if needed with Halfords screen wash.

 

Martin

[bgman]

I to am a vallejo user and a very happy one.

I'll be very interested to see where Mr.Trice's findings and trials lead him, it looks like this may run.

 

One word of caution, there are some sellers on a well know Internet "bidding site" who sell such paints but I've both heard and experienced problems where some stocks appear to have been kept, well let's call it " beyond their sell by date" and have dried up believe it or not ! So I would advise buying from a well known supply chain with a regular turnover of the product.

 

Cheers and happy modelling !

[JCL]

I'd like to add that for us modellers outside of the UK, the large Vajello range means that it can be a good replacement for UK based manufacturers of railway colours*. Unfortunately the change in what you can post (in my case both by the British and Canadian postal services) means that Vallejo now is my main option.

 

Edited to add:

 

*living abroad, I can justify "close enough" as opposed to "bang on" for colour matching.

Edited March 12, 2015 by JCL

[MikeTrice]

I have read somewhere that Vallejo has a 5 year shelf life. It would also be nice if we could build up a database of Vallejo Railway equivalents as part of this thread.

15

[Krusty]

Note: Thinning with water probably weakens the strength of the Vallejo paint and I read that using Klear as a thinner made the resulting paint very tough.

 

 

 

Vallejo's thinner contains a certain amount of acrylic medium to offset the weakening you get if you just dilute the paint with water. You can also buy one of their mediums to mix up your own more-or-less equivalent thinner if you prefer. Or just use plain water and let the paint rub off....

[Nile_Griffith]

Must admit I an thoroughly recommend the Valejo air brush cleaner. I have a couple of Iawata Revolution brushes and their cleaner keeps them in great condition. I predominantly use acrylic's because of a certain intolerance to the smell of enamel based paints by a certain significant other in the household, so similar sufferers might be heartened to learn that the Vallejo stuff has a a pretty low odour count.

 

Having being a long time user of the well respected Halfords primer. I made the move to using Vallejo's own primers. I find there adherence, coverage and the way they still allow fine detail to remain even after a couple of light coats very good. It's not often that I find myself having to do too much prep with the undercoat before airbrushing finishing coats of paint and if any kind of prep is needed it's generally down to my heavy handed'ness than a fault of the primer.

 

I wold agree with the opening remarks that it bodes well to allow any of the Vallejo paints time to cure fully for best results. That said if you do feel the need for speed, a little thought and delicacy will get you some pretty great results in a way you just couldn't achieve working with enamels.

 

If there is one area where I have struggled with Vallejo products, it is with their varnishes. I think it's probably down to me, but I just can't seem to get the right finish. To this I'm a big fan of using Johnsons Kleer and to date I've not experienced any problems combining the two.

 

As for using and working with other acrylic paints, I have used Vallejo's model colour and model air paints alongside Games Workshops Citadel range of paints and Revell's acrylic offerings (Revell's Lufthansa Blue makes a credible Railfreight blue for the roof of Class 92's)

 

One of these days I'm going to walk into my local supplier and just buy the whole range, so I can have them to hand. It's just a shame that Vallejo don't make in-roads into the model railway market as a range of colours that tie in with British pro-types would be very welcome (I have written to them and even enquired into the cost of developing a range of paints).

 

I would wholly endorse using Vallejo's range of acrylics but like the opening OP I would also say just like any other product it's important to do your homework first. After all, most of us here are happy to spend hours taking in every detail from photo's of loco's rolling stock and the likes, so why wouldn't you give up ten minutes or so to fully understand how to get the best out of your paint.

[MikeTrice]

Vallejo's thinner contains a certain amount of acrylic medium to offset the weakening you get if you just dilute the paint with water. You can also buy one of their mediums to mix up your own more-or-less equivalent thinner if you prefer. Or just use plain water and let the paint rub off....

This is something I hope to prove. What I should have done of course is prepare a spoon where I have used the Vallejo Thinner Medium to thin the flat green. I will have to prepare one but it will be some days before I can post any results due to cure times.

[bgman]

FYI

I've discovered a "local" Devon modellers shop in Newton Abbot today that stocks a good range of Vallejo paint in reasonable quantity.

Bekra Models, which is about 5 minutes walk from the station heading towards town. Having spoken with the owner it seems these are the only ones he favours so I'd assume they are likely to be well stocked. There are other paints and materials in the shop which modellers may find useful.

Usual disclaimer etc just passing on my travels around the county today.

 

As usual happy modelling everyone

Edited March 13, 2015 by bgman

[MikeTrice]

I realise that I should take a step back and perhaps do some introductory notes before rushing in and performing various tests.

 

Vallejo is a Spanish company and their web site can be found here: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/

 

They produce various paints but the ones I am concentrating on are the Model Paints, primarily Model Color/Panzer Aces. There are 218 colours in the Model Color range. They also produce Model Air which are supplied ready thinned for spraying and Game Color which are intended for rougher handling.

 

Here the various items I have covered so far. In the background there is a rattle can of Halfords Grey Plastic Primer (300ml), a bottle of original Klear floor polish, a 200ml bottle of Vallejo Acrylic Polyurethane Surface Primer and a 200ml bottle of their Airbrush Cleaner. In the front are a selection of paints which are supplied in 17ml dropper bottles. Hopefully the inclusion of the Klear and Halfords Primer will give a sense of size:

 

The Model Air colours are also supplied in the 17ml bottles:

 

Unscrew the cap of the 17ml bottles and you can see the shape of the dropper end which gives a reasonably precise way of measuring out quantities:

 

Also supplied in 17ml bottles (down the bottom of the display stand) are the associated products as shown here:

 

Vallejo have been slowly adding to the number of additional mediums and have also introduce decal fixers. All Vallejo bottles need to be shaken vigourously the ensure the contents are well mixed together as they can separate out in storage.

 

There are a number of metalic acrylic colours some of which can be seen here:

 

I tend to squeeze out some paint/medium into a throwaway foil dish (in this case an ashtray) and use it as a palette. This is the Vallejo Surface Primer that was used the other day and as can be seen, before it is fully cured, it is easy to peel off:

Edited March 17, 2015 by MikeTrice

[MikeTrice]

Yesterday I promised spoons. Well here they are. There will be lots more to come.

 

The first image shows from top to bottom

1) an untouched spoon,

2) a spoon that has had two brush coats of Vallejo Surface Primer,

3) a spoon which has been keyed with wet and dry and sprayed with Vallejo primer undiluted:

 

Although the hand brushed spoon has not got even coverage, even after two coats, it is supposed to have enough to serve its purpose (subsequent tests will confirm this or otherwise). The primer is also quoted as shrinking as it cures reducing brush marks:

 

Here two spoons have been sprayed on top of Halfords' Grey Plastic Primer, with Vallejo Flat Green thinned with water on top, and thinned 50/50 with Klear below. As can be seen the Klear mix has a slight shine whereas the standard finish is matt:

 

A few more to add to the mix

1) Humbrol Acrylic Primer,

2) Halford's Filler Primer,

3) Halford's Grey Plastic Primer:

 

All of the above are curing before any further tests are performed, however it is clear that I need to prepare a few more ready for subsequent tests.

Edited March 17, 2015 by MikeTrice

[JCL]

Thanks Mike, related but slightly off topic, do you have any advice on an original Kleer substitute? I've a feeling that this will be difficult for me to get a hold of.

[MikeTrice]

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48717-johnsons-klear/

 

I have also heard, but cannot confirm, that Humbrol Clear is the old stuff but at a much dearer price.

[Nile_Griffith]

Hello Mike!    

 

Have you been raiding my paint cupboard??????     Ha Ha Ha.  DCC supplies at Holt Heath near Ombersley Worcestershire had a very good stock of Vallejo paints last time I was in there.

 

Look forward to further reports.

[MikeTrice]

As Krusty stated earlier, Vallejo's thinner contains 100% Acrylic Resin, e.g. it thins the paint without losing paint strength. To the best of my knowledge it is ONLY available in the 17ml bottle, so is not cheap [Note: See later post regarding Airbrush Thinner]. There have been some very good reports of using Liquitex Airbrush Medium as a cheaper alternative. This comes in a more realistic 237ml bottle so works out a lot cheaper:

 

The following two spoons have been sprayed over a Halford's Plastic Primer base. The top one has been diluted 50/50 with Vallejo Thinner Medium and the bottom one 50/50 with Liquitex Airbrush Medium. Both appear to spray the same but interestingly the lower example has more of a shine to it:

 

Halfords produce a number of primers and it seemed reasonable to bring out the big guns (all 500 ml of them). Standard Grey Primer on the left and Etch Primer on the right. A couple of spoons have been treated ready for further testing:

 

Earlier JCL asked about Klear substitutes and I mentioned Humbrol Clear so a couple of spoons have been sprayed 50/50 Vallejo/Clear to see how it compares to the Klear version.

 

Finally I have a spoon brush painted with neat Vallejo Model Color direct on to the plastic with no primer. All are now hardening.

Edited March 17, 2015 by MikeTrice

[JCL]

Thanks Mike.

 

There's a lot of detail on Klear/Klir/Future, etc in the link you posted (http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html). I'll be driving past a couple of these stores (Canada - Loblaws, No-Frills, Sobeys, Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart, Valu-Mart.) tomorrow, so I'll see if I can find a bottle.

[MikeTrice]

I have my spoons at the ready. I also decided to produce a spoon using Phoenix Precision as a comparison.

 

I just need to decide on what tests to carry and how to do them.

 

At present I am thinking:

 

1) Resistance to scratching (with a fingernail)

2) Resistance to rub off (probably rubbing along an edge with a tissue)

3) Resistance to pull off (cover with Tamiya masking tape and pulling it off, none too gently).

 

Additional suggestions welcome.

[Penrhos1920]

I use Vallejo Airbrush Thinner, 71.161 which comes in 200ml bottles. "Dilutes color without loss of adhesion, resistance or consistency."

 

I prefer to use Model Air colours where available as I've found that some Model Color paints don't airbrush very well.  A classic example was copper which came out gold and then a big blob of copper when I stopped spraying.

[Rob Pulham]

As Krusty stated earlier, Vallejo's thinner contains 100% Acrylic Resin, e.g. it thins the paint without losing paint strength. To the best of my knowledge it is ONLY available in the 17ml bottle, so is not cheap. 

 

Hi Mike,

 

What a useful thread I have successfully thinned Vallejo paints for spraying using Tamiya thinner (it not to hand at the minute but it's either X40 or X45) many times but I do like the idea of usig Klear so I will be giving that a go too.

 

That said you can buy Vallejo thinner in the big bottles, the same size as those that their primer comes in - I think it's about £7 in Boyes Stores (the only place that I buy Vallejo paint from).

 

Edit sorry I hadn't Seen Penrhos1920's post - that's the one.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Rob Pulham

[MikeTrice]

Penrhos 1920 and Rob, thanks for the information regarding the Airbrush Thinners. I quoted that only 17ml was available based on the description "Thinner Medium" for which no 200ml equivalent was mentioned. It looks as if the Airbrush Thinner might be the same stuff but in a far more economical form, so I have ordered some together with some black Vallejo Primer.

[MikeTrice]

Thank you to everyone that have commented on these paints. I have now had a chance to carry out some tests and I will be honest and say that the results were surprising.

 

First off Primers.

 

All the Halfords' primers performed without reservation. In a lot of cases I keyed the spoon with 600 grit wet and dry first and scraping my fingernail across the primer had no effect (other than a slight polishing effect). For those unaware of Halfords their paints are aimed at the automotive market and are generally well respected in the model arena for sheer convenience.

 

The exception was the Vallejo primer that was hand brushed on a spoon that had not be keyed and the area that was scraped was where the primer was slightly thicker. The lesson here is do not go for full coverage but keep the layers thin. No problem was found where the surface had been keyed either brush painted or spray painted:

 

Before moving on to the paint tests here are a couple of additional spoons, the first has had two coats brush painted in Vallejo onto the primer:

 

I mentioned earlier a comparison spoon featuring Phoenix Precision. Here two coats of their Darlington Green have been applied over the usual Halfords' base.

 

The most interesting test was the scratch test, i.e. running my fingernail across the painted surface.

 

The worst was where I had sprayed the Vallejo over a Halfords' base having thinned it with water and and retarder medium. The scratch actually goes through to the primer layer:

 

All other scratch tests gave similar results with the paint ending up with a change of surface finish but not exposure of the underlying primer as can be seen here:

 

 

The best results were using Vallejo in conjunction with Vallejo Thinner Medium. A close second was Vallejo thinned with Klear closely followed by Vallejo thinned with Liquitex Airbrush Medium.

 

The best performer in the scratch test was Phoenix Precision which I could not make any impression on.

 

All variations passed the pull off test. Instead of using low tack masking tape as originally suggested I ended up using a more common (and greater hold) clear adhesive tape. No pull offs were experienced.

 

Finally there was the rub-off test. All variations including Pheonix Precision suffered from this. As with the scratch test some were better than others and the results were in the same order as the scratch test.

 

I think the lesson learnt here is that rub off will happen so plan accordingly. In my case with Emily the rub-off occured along the footplate edge with the original grey showing through. Using black primer for the footplate would make this far less obvious.

 

I will be carrying out further tests having treated the spoons with various varnishes but for the record this spoon has been treated with the three Vallejo varnishes with left to right: gloss, satin and matt:

[MikeTrice]

Writing (and no doubt reading) this thread is like watching paint dry - literally.

 

I have prepared some more spoons based on Halford's grey primer with satin and matt black sprayed over it.

 

Prepainted spoons have been varnished with Pledge Multi-surface wax (Klear's replacement), Ronseal Interior Satin Varnish (with Diamond Hard protection) and original Klear all to test durability of the finishes.

 

Today a spoon was sprayed with Vallejo Black Primer and another with Vallejo Flat Green thinned with their Airbrush Thinner.

 

All of these need 2-3 days to cure fully so don't expect much over the next couple of days.

 

P.S. I could not really see the benefit of posting photos at this stage but they will return in future posts.

 

Stop Press: Airbrush Thinners and Thinner Medium are NOT the same thing. I have successfully used both through an airbrush however Airbrush Thinner is not recommended with brush painting as it can damage any coating already applied. This is not a problem when applied with an Airbrush.

Edited March 19, 2015 by MikeTrice

[MikeTrice]

Games Workshop Chaos Black and Army Painter Base Primer Matt Black added.

 

The reason I am testing black primers is for treating footplate edges so that if any over handling occurs it will not show grey through as happened with Emily.