1BCamden

Not too much I hope, it really depends on how you want to operate the layout, prototypically or something that represents it.In either case, I’m not sure the cassette will deliver either, even my 1936 express and suburban timetables are proving a challenge, the DC sets alone are a stand alone system, and I’m doing an end to end arrangement for simplicity.

It is a large project just ask Vincent.... Your realisation is well founded, and yes it is a small site in real terms, but massive in 4mm scale, but it offers so much as you well know. After I did the cop out line “it will sort itself out” the other day, I think I owe you more, so.... As you have it laid on the floor as posted is the best arrangement, because (a) it maximises the off set curve radius possibilities , while (b) maintaining the all important on set overall long prototypical main line curve into and out of the off set reverse curves. Notwithstanding the workshop area, the fiddle yard and the reverse curves could go hard up to the walls, access to each of the curves would be through the inner curve radius area. Fiddle yard proper, not including yard end point work if possible, and similar to your mk1 photos back in 2012, and noting that a standard express was about 4m (13’) long, and your mk2 has about a 6m (20’) scenic (on set) length, which could allow the fiddle yard straight line area to push out to carry long and short distance expresses, plus local service stock, and through lines, in a tight but do able 600mm (2’) width. The goods yard scenic backscene could push right back to the fiddle yard (no access gap, except at each end) Access to fiddle yard, while increase stock capacity has been done elsewhere, by making the fiddle yard a multi-level cassette system, constructed as a stand alone module, with the through lines (fixed) passing behind and in front of the cassette module, the fixed lines behind (against the wall) bring the module forward, which will allow the lower cassette to raise up to track height without the top cassette touching the raked ceiling overhead. It could be designed as a three level unit, aluminium square tube framed, electrically driven through full (fiddle yard) length geared drive shafts. The scenic break hides the cassette. Yes you still need to get on your hands and knees to access the fiddle yard, but this would be only to sort a rail fault, or derailed train, could also be reduced by employing full length aluminium angled strips in place of standard track, which continuously “rerail” the train. Stock change over could be managed either by adjoining lower level run rounds, or at the reverse curve at the workshop end. Yes it’s got arms and legs, but it is do able, but complex solution, you could even make the cassette lowerable, and on wheels, drawing it out to the viewing area to carry out set ups and work on the module. Possibly crazy complex, possibly not.

Buffer Stops (again) way back in 2014, (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=1418152) we where looking at the two loco roads behind the ash plant, and what type of stops were they. Well the fantastic photo that Jeremy posted back on the 02/05/2018 stirred it up again. PECO (bless their little wagon wheels) brought out (to compliment their bullhead range) SL-1140 Buffer Stop Rail Type, they looked the part, so Hattons delivered 5packs (10 stops) earlier this week, very nice. They are great, excellent detail, and will do OO or EM, I tested one onto my code83 Tillig (don’t go there) track - perfect fit, although sleeper spacing is important, and good lighting while fitting is recommended. Result a perfect scale solution to most of the stops required on this side of the main running lines.

hi Iain, Wow, I have photos just like those (haha) unfortunately not in a space I own. However, I’m so happy for you, what a great space, to recreate a great piece of railway history. The layout scaling will sort itself out, through the simple process of “what is negotiable, and what is not” As always, and my very best Christmas and New Years wishes to you both, now get that Christmas tree decorated, and toast your beautiful new home.

Check out - [http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=1418085], this type is discussed in more detail, earliest example appears to be mid-thirties.

Hi Lime Street Station Team, well done again guys. Regarding the lack of movement “comments” I would say based on the attendance, and interest shown by the viewing public, it is not an issue, keep up the great effort.

Thanks for thinking to update us, moving into your new home would be a challenge in its self, unpacking the layout will be another.

well here in South Australia, this edition just arrived, and what a great edition it is, well done MRJ, worth the wait

Thanks, the photo really does gives a sense of scale even though it was known as a cramped site. Yes the roof, no getting away from that one, I've invested heavily into Hornby Plll coaches so I can't go back in time now, anyway if Vincent can do it so can we !! Regarding other matters, and specifically your layout and the gradient question, I have pondered this question long and hard, and the issue remains unresolved, gradients and prototypical train lengths don't go, slight changes (slow lines below the bridge, and all lines after the canal) more a gesture really, are okay but that's about it, ask TheLaird (13/05/2013) he really found out the hard way, great lesson for us all when running steam era layouts, and you can't double head everything out of Euston, even though it would look great. I basically redesigned (on paper) both fiddle yards based on a no (minimal) gradient approach. PS hope you take the cheese/bread board with you for the move, you should patent it, cheese/soldering bread board Best regards, Stanley

Hi Iain, really sorry to hear about your back injury-operation, and the trials associated with your new home build, I do drop in occasionally to see how you are going, the mark ll is an interesting challenge, but at least you will have the space. Love the motive power developments also. I have been fully absorbed at work for at least two years now, and it isn't letting up, however I thought this might interest you, its 1932, the modernisation has begun, you see the town end of the main shed roof has been removed, what a building it was, what a loss. There are a number of points of interest, one being the original elevated signal box (just under the parachute tank) and importantly a bit more of that wall. The photo was taken by ER.Wethersett, I found it in a book by Brian Stephenson, LMS Album No3. As you can see I have messed the photo up a bit trying to hide the binding, but I intend to buy another copy, plus the full set of three volumes anyway, it's perfect for me, a little early for you. As always, best regards, Stanley

Hi Butler, I can't understand the point you are trying to make, or the problem you are having. Tillig elite is not to be compared with the likes of Hornby or peco settrack, it could be said that while each piece of tillig elite will conform to the manufactures specification if required, each curved piece still allows a certain amount of flexibility to meet the modellers specific requirement, unlike true settrack (Hornby/peco) which tends to be quite rigid. I cannot speak to roco, as I have never used it. To date my current investment in tillig elite tracking is in excess of $2k, essentially points and flex track, and while not perfect, for a rtr track system it is excellent. It's ability to meet the needs of the individual, while delivering prototypical rail work sets it apart in the areas of finish and ease of installation. Could I suggest that you consider a transition to a flex track system that matches the track system you are currently using, and generally dispense with settrack where possible. best regards

TL85141 - HO Curved Track R21-425mm TL85143 - HO Curved Track R31-484mm TL85145 - HO Curved Track R41-543mm Track geometry Straight tracks: • The lengths of the straight track sections are determined by the standard element length of 228 mm and the corresponding 1/2 and 1/4 divisions. In addition, various filler sections compensate the length differences arising during track installation. • Standard track spacing is 59 mm • Fixed curve radii of 366, 425, 484 and 543 mm, in each case as 30° sections. • Greater radii can be achieved by using so-called flexi-track • Flexi-track caters for all individual needs and wishes with regard to track length and curve radius.

Hi Coach, your comments got me to unpack the coal tank and check it again, interestingly when run over a single slip crossover and point combination only one pick up sits marginally below any of the check rail heights, also all the pick ups angle into the wheel or tyre flanges. I tried to photo the clearances, but it's difficult to capture the detail, suffice to say none of them "picked up" Couple of photos show the offending and non offending pick up arms, so as they say "The jury is out on this one" Thanks for dropping the Kadee sizes in there, very helpful.

All I can say is thank you, I've been off line for a couple of days at work, and revisited this thread expecting to read nothing of note, well I'll never assume that here again. For me this problem would have remained hidden for a least two to three years, I've already received the LNWR version, I checked out the flange depth to chair height clearance (code 83 Tillig Elite) 0.5mm, took a couple of stripped down photos for future improvements and DCC install reference, all good, missed the pick up conflict issue completely. Catalogued and repackaged it, as the layout construction phase (no matter how tempting) is no placed for your rostered allocation. Bachmann have worked hard ensuring good power pick with six points covered, while ensuring each pick up arm is hidden, however this has resulted in the actual contact dimple being lower on the tyre circumstance, effectively reducing the B2B clearance, and its ability to clear check rails (standard or finescale) etc. When I receive my LMS version, I intend to check the factory B2B clearances, something normally carried out much later in my world, strip it down and flatten out the four (only) problem contact dimples, failing this repunch contact dimples above the check rail height, and remove the excess pick up arm below this new contact dimples and retest and let you guys in on the findings, don't hold your breath. This thread catch up has been a great informative read, where modellers and model makers discuss their common interest, without personal agenda or attack (did I say that out loud) to progress this life interest forward for the benefit of us all. I do however think we are kidding ourselves if we believe that we could place a model (kit build or ready to run) on our layout for the first time and expect it to perform flawlessly. Whether due to our own track laying, design or model making skills, our attention to that all important critical detail, or the manufactures ability to address the buying publics every need, including as stated many times on the forum "What's taking them so long" and demand. I don't believe there is one person on this site who has never stripped down a model (RTR, new, used or kit) to repair, replace or improve some aspect of that model in an effort to make it our own, this issue is nothing new, once identified, as stated by somebody earlier, we can fix it, or get it fixed. Thanks again for finding this early, for all and for Bachmann so they can reset their QC and design criteria envelop around this possibly expensive design oversight. Just because, here is a basic as received arrangement photo, very tidy, apologies for the photo quality, and no pick up detail, and yes that is pre coloured tillig elite rail in the background

Hi Peter,Hattons, minus the UK VAT, lands it at about $153 aud for an unchipped unit, pretty good.

Thank you Hattons, on line purchase 25/04, arrived South Australia 04/05, well packaged and in perfect condition, thats service !! (thanks Michelle Higgins and the team in Widnes) LNWR Coal Tank, looks great, handrails and connecting rods pretty good actually, now just the LMS to go (fantastic)

Great honesty and strength there Michael, as for Walton-On-The-Hill, your commitment to this piece of railway history, and this thread is very much appreciated and followed regularly, as I lived not that far away in my youth. It brings back great bygone memories and motivation to many.

Andy, Thanks for starting this thread, really great transfer of information (knowledge) on the subject, and thanks for the photos comparing both the real thing and the model. Those coupling rods look huge against the prototype, definitely a job for LRM or Brassmasters, the RTR is begging for an upgrade around the hand rails, steps, and rods

Oh I don't know about that entirely Jol,I am a bit in that space, a very particular company, time and location, but the Bachmann coal tank is a welcome addition to my date stamp. In the knowledge that the LMS were notoriously slow in updating livery and running numbers up until the mid thirties, a heavily weathered RTR LNW coal tank fits the job, and allows that bit more LNWR into the frame. I feel better about grubbying up a RTR to fit a June 1936 location, than a perfect LRM kit with a couple of hundred build hours behind it, I don't know how I will manage to do the weathering on any of my kits actually, you know what I mean - London Road is pretty pristine. Regarding kits and RTR, well here is the thing - LNWR Oerlikon Electric sets, I'm weighing up, wait as there is a scannable example out there, or buy the LRM partial solution - you tell me. If you are modelling a prototype with a date stamp, there are hundreds of things to consider, one less is a bonus. An earlier comment holds optimism, in that this Bachmann example could have a positive outcome for LRM and the like, in that it could result in additional carriage and goods rolling stock sales, as we explore this era. As always Jol, really lucky to have your knowledge shared on these pages.

"Its obviously a pre production model so lets wait for them to turn up before being overly critical" I think Bachmann would have an interest in what goes on in this forum, I wouldn't wait, the bright work looks terrible, it was the first thing I noticed, if it's wrong tell them early, I'm sure Dennis Lovett would be interested. Me, two - 35-050 and 35-051 (sorry Jol, it's a time thing, but I am displacing Midland stuff)

Ruud Boer, hi Rudy, Trust you are well, and enjoying the winter up there. Thanks again for going to so much trouble to share your knowledge and the train controller operating system with everybody, quite a big task I'm sure. I'm continuing my development, and still committed to train controller gold, and via the ESU ECoS. Have you had any more thoughts on train/occupancy detection, as I was just down at my ESU supplier, who was quite against reed/magnetic detection, advising I should go with the ESU system. Just wondering how you were getting on with you layout, and its reliability ? Best regards Stanley

Hi Iain, Couple more photographs of the tank, looks like the inner handrail was a very late installation based on the second photo, it was clearly not there when this photo (BR) was taken. The first pre 1936 photo again shows 'the hatch' and timber (planking) decking, but arranged across the platform, not along it. best regards Stanley

Hi Iain, well I think Michael has sorted the colour out for the whole site, what a gift !!

Hi Iain, you are going to love this ...... 1B shed, main tank railings and access, After a think and a closer look at a couple more photos, plus our discussion to date, this is how I see it; Key photos (1) the double coaler 1936 photograph, and (2) the BR Caledonian on the turntable photograph (#566), plus (3) the BR 6245 photograph. The access platform extended completely around the perimeter of the tank, (two rail, no kick plates both sides) basically 914mm (36") wide deck of timber longitudinally mounted on steel framing through tank roof to internal support structure. Two additional platforms (one located above the main tank inlet pipe, and another above the main tank outlet pipe) the right hand side (inlet) provided access to the internal ball float valve assembly and its hatch. The left hand platform (outlet) provided access to a single flanged and bolted hatch (500x500mm max) for inspection and maintenance access, and possibly an outlet valve extended handle. http://www.petersmithvalve.co.uk/equilibrium.htm Roofing 3mm galvanised plate steel, bolted together, with each plate approximately the same size as a wall panel, however in 4mm scale it would look like a single piece, but grid lined and with bolt heads throughout. This arrangement was supported by the internal support structure, and shed water through a slight pitch to the east side of the tank, which would be difficult to detect under the decking. Points of note, Photo (1) the shape on the right hand valve access platform, is a long rectangular hinged hatch (which is open in this photo) to access the inlet ball float valve assembly, the ball float hatch cover is open in this photo, it's not there in the other photographs because the hatch is closed. Photo (2) clearly shows the framing between the tank and the decking. Photo (3) the dark area on the right hand side of the tank top, is actually a superstructure shadow from the new coaling plant. I think I've changed my mind and edited this at least three times, but it's pretty close now. best regards Stanley

Hi Iain, On the north west side ? 'stuff' hard to say, an access manway/hatch wouldn't be that big, something changed from 'as installed' at some point, have to look at it a bit closer. Additional railing, not only around the perimeter of the tank, but also across east to west, slightly to the northern end also. Roofing material, I know we are leaning towards corrugated iron (GWR style) but I don't think so, another closer look here too. Tank colour, see attached colour photo - best regards Stanley