Ian Smith

Impressive technical work Ian, but I also really like the creatiivty of it - eg how you've done the glazing. So Modbury will be exhibited in June! I know your stock has been exhibited before, but will that be the first outing for the layout?

Mikkel,

Yes, June will be the first outing for Modbury.  It will be far from complete, but luckily because that outing is a 2mm scale Expo I'm expecting it to be a relatively informal affair with lots of chatting and discussion - All being well I'll be given a few pointers by fellow 2mm scale modellers on where I'm going wrong (this is my first 2mm scale layout after all, and I'm still learning!)  It's also the first time I've exhibited a layout of my own since about 1980.  I'm quite looking forward to it.

Ian

Lovely work on this Ian.

Beautiful work as ever Ian.

Thank you Don and Jerry.  All being well I'll be at Expo 2015 in June with Modbury - I'm trying to see what I can get done before then if nothing else to provide conversation pieces.

Nice signal Ian. I'll have to try out the skinny tubing wire guides myself some time.

 

I'm sticking with plastic finials myself though. I prefer a broken signal to a punctured hand, but each to his own!

Thanks Andy.  I'll see how I get on with a firmly attached finial - If I do myself to many injuries I'll have to have a rethink ;-)

Excellent work Ian, very impressed! Soldering that 0.3mm tubing in the right place must have been entertaining:-). Good to read an update from Modbury.

Thank you Dave.  Yes, soldering the 0.3mm ID tubing in the right place was to say the very least entertaining !!  I used a blackened (with a permanent marker) piece of the wire used for the rodding to help hold the little blighters in place in the vain hope that I didn't solder the wire inside the bits of tube at the same time as securing the tube to the post.  It was reasonably successful as I only soldered the lot solid twice.  :-)  Once painted, the tube was cleaned of paint with a bit of guitar string (the phosphor bronze wire wasn't strong enough to penetrate the paint).  All in all it was a good game, but very satisfying once complete :-)

Ian

Very nice ! Signals are never easy in any of the sub 7mm scales.

Thank you.

Has anyone ever managed "see-through" GW finials in 2FS?

Thank you.

See-through finial balls -  Ummmm.  Given that the ball is only 1mm diameter, I'll let someone else try that one!!

Very nice Dave.  I do like the bounce action of the signals.

You've got to model that pub!

Mikkel,

Dave might need to alter the date on the signage at the top of the building though :-)

Ian

Dave,

Looks very nice, the whole building looks very convincing to me, I particularly like the down pipes.  Whose paints have you used for the light and dark stone?  It may be the lighting but it doesn't look at all the same shade that I have a tin of.

Ian

Andy,

Looking very nice.  I like the weathering, it looks pretty subdued in the photos.  It's also good to see a crankpin retainer that blends in better than the blue or yellow ones we often see ;-)

Ian

Ian,

 

Am I being a little thick here? Your jig has a piece of 0.5mm nickel in it so how does it hold a piece of 1mm square brass bar in the gap between the hinge plates?

 

David

David,

Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself very well.  The 0.5mm spacer is really only there to support the 1mm brass while I tighten up the round headed bolts (with a hex driver), those bolts go through each side of the hinge and through the spacer too (I only open up the hinge just enough to allow the 1mm brass to slip between the hinge "cheeks", I seat it against the spacer with the end of a steel ruler before tightening up the bolts to hold it solid while I cut the slots).  I hope that explains it a bit better.

In reality I could have used something thicker to give a spacer closer to 1mm (but still slightly smaller than 1mm to ensure that when the bolts are tightened the brass bar is secure for slotting).  I also suspect that I could have seated the brass bar level with the top of the hinge and just started the sawing action at 45 degrees before levelling off.  The important thing really is the distance between the saw cuts (about 0.5mm centres).

What an ingenious solution to making the stools.  Those single bay ones must be really tiny!  

 

Dave

Dave,

Thankyou.  Yes the single bay ones are pretty small, as you can see from the ruler they are sitting on they are just a smidgen over 1mm wide.  As soon as I'd parted them off I set them in a puddle of solder paste and got them soldered up before I sneezed or something and lost them forever to the carpet monster.  I will also keep them all on the PCB timbering strip until I need them so that I minimise the chances of losing them :-)

Ian

... And then onto the point rodding for St Ruth?

 

Chris.

Chris,

I don't know how we intend to add point rodding to St Ruth, my method will require ballasting to be added after all of the stools are in place.  Each stool will be on a little piece of crossing timber and the thought of excavating little patches of existing ballast to add them after the event is not one that I would want to do - the stools for square rodding (which would be more suitable for St. Ruth's time frame) need to be at 9' (18mm) centres, my own will be round rodding with a stool every 6' (12mm), so that's a lot of stools on even the smallest of layouts!!

When I've finished, I'll send you my jig :-)

Ian

Very interesting, Ian. I'm going to need some of these myself. Does the jig have some method of keeping the brass bar at the correct level and, indeed, level?

 

David

David,

Yes, I have a piece of 0.020" nickel sheet sandwiched within the hinge (it can be seen in the screw holes of the hinge) that is in the form of a longitudinal support complete with an end-stop just past the right-most slot in the hinge (this end-stop is marginally to far away meaning that the end of the bar needs a few wipes of a file on removal).

Ian

Mike,

Although figure painting is quite a distance down my list of things to do, I came across Brian Fayle's website the other day part of which demonstrates his approach to painting figures (http://www.brifayle.ca/2abaseshadows.html) - I think it's worth a read.  As a boy in the 60's, it was Brian's Harlyn Junction layout that really inspired me (I probably still have the Railway Modeller in which it appeared somewhere in the loft!), and I was delighted to see that he has documented this layout on his website too.

It's nice to see that someone else also realises the palette potential of Pringle tube tops (other bent crisps are also available!) :-)

Ian

Very nice Ian.  "The 'Private' sign on the door is my one, real, artifact that I obtained in my teenage years."  Does that mean that there is a station building door somewhere down south that has screw holes where a sign used to be? :-)

?Look forward to seeing the next update on Freshwater.

I was probably just pleased that there were still some of Pauline's flapjacks left ;-)

I really like the view along the layout, the light reflects really nicely off the "damp patches" on the beach, really pleased with the way that has come out!

Dave,

What an improvement your re-sized roof makes!!!  I can't believe that the Peco roof is so over-sized.  I agree and do think that the finials need replacement with something more GWR-like.  The steps look safe enough to climb to me :-)

Ian

Dave,

Good to hear that you're on the mend.  The 'box is coming along nicely, I'm particularly impressed with the invisible joins!!

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Ian

Don,

Had I thought about it I could have drawn one up for Andy (D869) to include on his latest etch, however in reality the bending of a bit of brass wire and the subsequent flattening is only a matter of a few minutes work - it would have taken me far longer to do the artwork.  Obviously if I (or the group) needed loads of them then getting some etched might be the way to go but for a one-off it would be a bit over-kill.

It's now sited on St Ruth and hopefully it survived long enough for a photo session.  It was a bit of a mad rush to get it ready for Friday night, and I may make a better replacement for it at some stage but it will do for now.

Ian

Mikkel,

Can't say much else other than "absolutely brilliant!!!"

I will however add that the atmosphere that you have conjured within the depot is quite sublime, and is a credit to your artistry.

Ian

Andy,

That's coming along rather nicely.  With a fair strong (following) wind she'll be ready for Abingdon ;-)

Ian

Great stuff Ian.

 

A disc and crossbar next then?

 

Regards, Andy

Andy,

Thank you.

Even those are a bit before my period, unless I have a leaning to widen my gauge at some time in the future :-)

Fascinating, Ian, especially how the signal itself is just the tip of a much larger iceberg!

 

Any plans for a ground semaphore? (or have you already done one of those, I can't remember). I mean the ground signal that was a mini semaphore, like the one at the top of the page here: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/gndsigs.htm

Mikkel,

Thank you.

Yes I have plans for at least one ground semaphore (and no I've not made one yet).  The ground signals with the circular white plate with red bar across are far too late for me, the slightly earlier ones with a semi-circular plate would be suitable but I do have leanings for the even earlier ground semaphore :-)

Another bit of top quality modelling Ian. This layout is going to be something special.

Don

Don,

Thank you.  I spent a good hour or so trying to fit the signal on the baseboard last night (and get it to rotate - which it was quite happy to do on my little test rig) without success.  I have decided that the amount of throw I thought I could get away with is insufficient so I now need to make up a little extra crank providing more throw which will be between the TOU and the signal (original plan was a direct link from TOU to signal).  Not too bothered though, coming up with (hopefully) solutions to problems is what I enjoy as it keep the old grey matter functioning now I don't have to do it at work :-)

Ian

I have been using Templot for quite a while on my iMac without any issues (running under Wine).  Whenever Templot detects that it needs to install a later copy of itself, it does so without any issues too.  I am currently using OS Mavericks by the way, I am thinking of updating to OS Yosemite but have held off in case I get any issues with the non-apple software (like Templot) that I use - a quick read of the reviews for Yosemite indicates that people have encountered problems in this area.

Ian

Ian I have had a look and found two layouts where the access to the yard from the down crosses over the up line. Wheatly and Dymock. Both are in the OPC book Great Western Stations volume 2 by R Clark. There are plans and signalling for both. Dymock has the added complication of the down line also being signaled for up movements. Wheatly was originally Broad Gauge and has an extra crossover from the up to the goods loop  which actually cuts across the other forming a scissors type effect.

Don

Don,

Andy of the Midland Group has leant me his (West Country) copy of "Signal Box Diagrams" published by the Signalling Record Society.  I have been looking at places like Gara Bridge and Bampton which have similar layout diagrams to my own (albeit with single slips instead of my preferred diamond).  What is nice is that some of the stations have associated locking charts, and a few even have lever leads too (the descriptions on the levers themselves which detail what levers have to be pulled before the labelled one).  I have all 4 of the Great Western Stations volumes and have found examples where the crossover to the goods loop is over a diamond so I'm happy that my original plan has some semblance of reality!

I think I've got the whole 'frame' but no levers. It did reduce the cost somewhat until it got stopped for Royal Mail to add duties and their disproportionate handling charge. Howard (Mr Modratec) was incredibly helpful and saved me a lot of work headaches. 

Richard,

Thanks for that.  When I come to installing a lever frame and interlocking I will probably contact Modratec.  For the time being I will have to use electrical switches on the control panel (when I get around to building it) as I don't think I will have time to do a "proper" control panel before Expo2015!

Ian

What I understand of the final diagram appears to be more complicated than it needs to be. I also aim to achieve what you set out out to. I built the S4 lever frames and ordered the interlocking from Modratec (without the lever part of the frame). The latter is still to be built but getting my head around the sigscribe (see Modratec website) program was, for me, much easier than trying to build the most compact interlocking that I could. Once interlocked the task of providing power to only those sections that should have it was achieved more simply, and I could dispose of the three and four pole double throw switches previously linked to each switch. From memory there were enough auxiliary contacts on the turnout motors to route the power to the appropriate track. No relays required.

Richard,

I too have recently downloaded a copy of the Sigscribe program.  I've only used it a little and am trying to get to grips with it.  What I do like is that when I have finalised my signalling I will be able to "play signalman" to test that I have got the locking right.  I didn't realise that Modratec could provide just the locking frame, I assumed that you would have to but the lever frame too - this may not be a problem as I haven't yet decided whose lever frame to use (or make my own), although I always liked the look of the S4 one and prefer it to the look of the Modratec one.

Ian

A neat looking workable ( is there such a word ?) solution

 

As a thought have you considered a logic ( arduino ) solution ?  if the points / signals are servo driven it will drive them via interface shields as can the track  power via a relay shield, The   advantage been it can be tested section by section and reprogrammed if it fails to respond quite how you thought

Nick,

I did consider servos for the points and signals but decided in the end to use memory wire.  We (well, Andy) has used servos for the signals on St Ruth and I think that the jury is still out, we have quite a few glitches that usually mean that Andy has to get under the boards to sort out at exhibitions, I don't think that I would want to use them for points for that reason (although I know others are perfectly happy with them).  Being an old-fashioned kind of guy I intend to stick with DC, and I really, really want to build a fully interlocked mechanical locking frame with proper levers rather than a whole load of fancy lights and switches (somehow it seems more in keeping with an Edwardian layout) :-)

Very nice drawings, I wonder what package you used?

Both the Signalling Diagram and the Wiring Diagram were both drawn with Inkscape.  Not an ideal tool for the wiring diagram as when you move something you then have to go back and re-connect any lines that were previously connected to the bit that was moved (and any "hop-overs" have to be put in manually too).

Ian,

 

Following what seem to have been usual GWR practice there would be no need for a disc at 5 as it is in effect 'plain line' for a shunt back through No 10 crossover (to pull 10 would require 5 reverse as would the Shunt Ahead subsidiary).

 

11 is something rather different and I'm really going to try to get to its purpose before anything else.  However if it was provided (read on) it would be co-located with the running signal (13) with both at the point toe on probably the left of the line and point 12 would havea  lock bar through teh point instead of lying in rear of the point toe.

 

But more important is the purpose of 11.  Normally the yard would be shunted by an Up train as it is a trailing move and, similarly to the other end in some respects the disc would be at the toe of 7 as it would require 12 reverse to release it - thus ensuring 12 is effectively 'plain line' for such moves and therefore doesn't need a ground signal.  However you seem to want to shunt the yard with a Down train which means running round - a signalled move - then picking up off the rear of the Down loop (could be handsignalled) then setting back off the Down Loop towards the right (therefore needs a ground signal) then reversing towards either the yard - a disc at 12 requiring both 12 & 7 reverse (and potentially - depending on period) a double disc with the other arm reading to the Up Loop requiring 12 reverse and locking 7.

 

Hope this helps rather than confuses or confounds.

 

Mike

Mike,

Thank you very much once again for your comments.  I'm trying to digest them now!!

What your comments have done is provide me with food for thought on how a station such as mine might have actually been operated in reality.  Reading through your comments both on this iteration and its previously less considered incarnation, what I am picking up is that it would be usual for the yard to be shunted by an UP train.  If this were the case would it be sensible to assume that any wagons destined for Modbury on DOWN trains would simply be detached and shunted over the crossover (10) and be deposited in the Goods Loop for an UP train to deal with later?  Of course in reality I presume that a horse or man power would be utilised to haul (for example) a cattle wagon dropped off in the loop by a DOWN train into the cattle dock siding.

But more important is the purpose of 11.  Normally the yard would be shunted by an Up train as it is a trailing move and, similarly to the other end in some respects the disc would be at the toe of 7 as it would require 12 reverse to release it - thus ensuring 12 is effectively 'plain line' for such moves and therefore doesn't need a ground signal.  However you seem to want to shunt the yard with a Down train which means running round - a signalled move - then picking up off the rear of the Down loop (could be handsignalled) then setting back off the Down Loop towards the right (therefore needs a ground signal) then reversing towards either the yard - a disc at 12 requiring both 12 & 7 reverse (and potentially - depending on period) a double disc with the other arm reading to the Up Loop requiring 12 reverse and locking 7.

On the assumption that the yard will only be shunted by UP trains, what I am now inferring from your comments is that my siting of Ground Disc 11 would be incorrect and should instead be moved to the toe of 7 (I had already assumed that 12 reversed would release it).  If that is the case, would 11 Cleared give access ONLY to the Goods Loop (and sidings) or would it also be used to allow the engine (and possibly wagons retrieved from the yard) back down the UP Loop to the remainder of an UP train left in the platform?  Or would I need another Ground Disc to cover that move?

Thank you once agin for your assistance.

Ian

Looks pretty good. I will have a look and see if I can find some examples of stations where they have the same sort of layout.

Don

Don,

Thank you.  The early layout of stations on the DN&S seems similar to my layout of having a diamond to access the goods loop and sidings, but as yet I have been unable to locate a signalling diagram for places like Highclere/Burghclere.

Happy New year Ian. Looks terrifying, way beyond me that stuff:-)) Jerry

Happy New Year to you too Jerry.  I have to admit that I've read and re-read the Bodmin articles so many times now I think I could recite them in my sleep!!  I'm a bit of an electrical numpty really, but I felt that it was something I needed to get to grips with if I was going to fulfil my requirement of using the signalling to operate the layout.  The really tricky bit is going to be making the lever frame and mechanical interlocking that I eventually want to employ!! :-)  (Although to an extent that is almost a future enhancement)

Ian