Ian Smith

Ian,

That all looks a little drastic (especially with 2 weeks to go before an exhibition) :-)

The 3D printed buildings all look really good, I particularly like the brickwork colouring on the station building, certainly in what I take to be natural daylight.

Shame the exhibition is at least 2 and half hours away from me :-(

Ian

Mikkel,

The tarpaulins look really good.  I like the depth of weathering you've managed to apply too.  As mentioned in your other thread, I'm really glad that others have made use of my artwork!

One of the things I found difficult to locate were good photos of wagons with tarpaulins that were actually legible - it being almost impossible (for me) to find ones that you could see the number and the date, meaning that I at least will almost certainly have numbers on tarpaulins that are not actually appropriate for my c. 1906 layout.  Am I worried about that, not at all! :-)

Ian

Hi Dave,

I too was going to tell you about the Smith's/Scalelink etched letters but Mikkel has beaten me to it!

I like the name written in stone(s), but I too feel that the Slater's letters used for the GW font of the name board just looks wrong.  Modelling in 2mm, I think I can get away with inkjet printing my name boards, and to that end will do a miniature version of the name board that I did for my layout pelmet / website :

I chose to do this in the earlier font style (which I felt would be more suitable for an Edwardian layout).  The whole was done in Inkscape, each letter being drawn rather than using a Windows/Mac font.

Ian

Dave,

The whole looks really effective.  I particularly like the families of green Pacmen, sorry i mean lily pads :-)

Seriously though, fantastic!

Ian 

Dave,

Really effective.  Lovely modelling (unless it's full size) :-)

Ian

Oh I'd beg to differ, Ian. Your own backscene has been done very nicely too. Slightly different style, but certainly to the same excellent quality as Dave's exquisite rendering.

Thank you Yorkshire & Dave (I couldn't quote Dave's reply as it is on a new page)!  I must admit that I tried to have my horizon line somewhat higher than Dave's as my line is supposedly running in a vale with a ridge line behind.

Ian

Dave, beautifully done!  The back scene really adds so much depth to the modelled scene.  You've certainly done a better job than I did with the Modbury back scene :-)

Regards.

Ian

Mikkel,

Lovely modelling as one comes to expect from your good self.  I particularly like the concept of a view through the goods lock up.  I also feel that the Wills slates are somewhat outdone by the paper/card York ones - It is unfortunate that the end slates have suffered damage, perhaps they could be removed and replaced?  I'm sure painting/weathering will lose the glue leakage onto the few affected too.  As others have said quality modelling!

Ian

Thank you all for your positive comments!!

Serious work, there. And in such a small scale. How well does it roll without being pushed?

Simon, it's not too bad.  There is a very slight tight spot which I will address when I rebuild the chassis after it's been broken down for painting.

what do you insulate the bolts with and how is it secured ?

Nick, the bolts are held in tufnol plugs in the main chassis block.  The fixing points are drilled 1mm, the 1mm thick section of chassis removed and the 1mm holes in the main block opened out to 2.3mm.  Tufnol plugs are turned up and araldited in those holes, and when secure the 1mm section of chassis is bolted back on (hence the fixings outside the extremities of the finished chassis).  The 1mm holes in the 1mm section are used to drill the tufnol plugs 12BA tapping size and the plugs tapped 12BA.  The 1mm section is again temporarily removed which it has its holes opened out to 12BA clearance and countersunk.

That's very good workmanship Ian. I do like the heavy chassis idea. I am assuming there is a thin layer of insulant between the two halves of the chassis. I presume you will not be fitting Simpson springs. Do you ream the axle bushes to 1.5mm or do you drill them at 1.6 (i.e as for the Simpson springs) to give a litlle clearance. I am assuming something like tufnol plugs in the thick chassis side tapped to take the bolts. Presumably you would drill and fit the plugs before drill the holes for the bolts.

If you are etching the rods could you not etch the fly cranks too?

 

Don

Don, not my idea, just copying what Nigel Ashton did for his Manor chassis and his Cambrian 0-6-0 that was detailed in the Association magazine a few years back.  I won't be fitting Simpson springs on this one, the centre axle has a little bit of vertical play introduced by filing the bottom/top of the bush.  Because the loco will have outside frames, I was concerned about the extended axles potentially shorting on those if too much play was given to the axles so the bushes are all as purchased - I haven't opened any of them out by drilling or reaming as they were all a good running fit on the wheel axles and axle steel that the gears are on.

I did think about doing the artwork for the fly cranks but decided that it would hold up the build and they are such simple things to make anyway.

Very impressive Ian, those cranks must be seriously tiny!

Dave, thanks.  They are quite small an indication can be seen in one of the photos of them with a ruler.  But then to you 7mm boys even my workshop would seem tiny :-)

Ian, Inspirational work. Duncan

Duncan, thank you.

Ian

Dave, I can't add any further positive comments other than those that have gone before.  You must be really pleased - the platform surfaces look believably real.

Ian

One thing I always notice in photos from the early days of the railways is the scarcity of trees in those days. You might need to think of somethings else to mask the fiddle yard openings.

Ian,

I agree that the area within the lineside fences would not have any trees, but what I intend to do is position one (or two) in the hedgerow in front of the embankment.  My theory being that the field boundary would have been there long before the coming of the railway, and to reinforce it a little the same hedgerow will be continued on the far side of the line - the railway effectively bisecting an old field.

Ian

Good progress Ian.  Shame about the turnout did the memory wire forget what it was meant to do? I found with a tortoise point motor I could move it by hand if necessary (it was a wire disconnected not a tortoise failure. I am planning to use servos next. I don't suppose they can be moved by hand.

I was a little less than complementary about your backscene before but it looks quite effective in the photos. I see just after you did it Mike Raithby did an article for the 2mm Mag on backscenes.

It does seem to capture the atmosphere of a small GW station as seen in photos (I only knew them in BR days).

 

One minor suggestion in one of the photos the exit hole for the trains shows up as the white FY area is visible. If that area was painted green it might not show up as much. You might be planning to hide it with trees although not so easy when it is on and embankment.

Don

Don,

Thank you for the positive comments.  A couple of times during the day I did move the offending point by hand but forgot to throw the relevant switch on the panel!  Because 2mm events are more social than anything else I decided that it was easier to just run through trains.

Re the back scene (or anything else for that matter), I am my own worst critic!  Comments offered by others are fully taken on board, and I do feel that the back scene gets better from left to right (the right hand end panel with the church steeple on being the last to be done proving that things really do improve with practice!)

The mouse hole at the end of the embankment will hopefully be disguised a little by a tall tree in the hedgerow, but if unsuccessful I might use your suggestion and paint the traversers green (or at least shade not so jarring as stark white!)

Ian

Maybe try washing out the colors nearer the horizon, i.e. making them lighter to gives greater distance effect? Tim

Tim,

Thanks for the comment.  One of the issues I've had with using acrylics (mixed straight from the tube) is that they seem to dry a darker shade than when they are wet on the palette.  Before I went away last week I tried to get a bit of greenery on the 3D model to better judge the effect of my back scene, and whilst it's by no means perfect I'm reasonably happy with it - there are a few things that I might change, and one of the benefits of the acrylic medium is the covering power so if I decide to I can over paint later.

Modbury will be at Tutbury in a couple of weeks, so I'm looking forward to getting some feedback there (the Midland Area Group will be there in our somewhat limited numbers, and won't shy away from giving me some honest feedback) :-) 

Ian

Dave, what can I say apart from brilliant!!!

Ian

Hi Ian, just been reading these last two posts - thanks for sharing this, very useful to learn from. To me this second attempt does look better. I wonder if it might be an idea to introduce a slightly more hazy look, as the fields stand out quite sharp and colourful, and therefore might draw the eye away from the layout itself?

 

But I suppose that also depends on the purpose of the backscene. In some cases the backscene plays an important part in setting the scene, in others it is more a question of providing a neutral background. 

Mikkel,

Glad someone has found my posts useful :-)

I thought long and hard about whether or not the colours should be hazy / muted, but decided that I wanted to give the impression that the station is in a valley, and that the most distant fields (and horizon for that matter) that could be seen would in reality be 2-3 (smallish) fields away.  As I walk my dog over fields twice a day, I have obviously taken notice of how muted the colours become over distance.  Obviously, in the misty / lower light conditions of autumn and winter I agree that colours become quickly muted, but on a summer's day the colours at a distance of a 1/4 mile or little more are not really dulled that much at all.  

That's my excuse anyway - the truth is that I've actually struggled to mix up muted colours!   The problem being that whilst the colours look relatively pale on the palette, I have found that acrylics seem to dry darker.

Anyway, I've almost completed the whole back scene now, just the last couple of feet to finish off - adding the highlights to the hedgerows, trees etc.  Hopefully, I'll get that done today.  I still have to decide how much if any of the town of Modbury to include in this section - I'm thinking just putting the church steeple poking up above a band of trees should indicate that there is a community just off scene :-)

Looking good Ian. Have you considered painting a few larger trees towards the foreground? This would aid the transition from backscene to 3d model. You need to be a little bold, but it's worth it.

Thank you.  It's a work in progress, so yes larger foreground trees will appear in places, although more on the so far unpainted right hand end.

It's looking good, try the 'Generate a Panorama' web resource to get the contours, and combine it with an equivalent scale height view from a period OS map.  A set of overlapping photos from the same viewpoint & direction can also help to reduce the dreaded guesswork.  It's not about art, just copy from reference on trial sections till you are happy with the realism of the landscape.  Same for the sky, choose the look you want, and copy the colours and clouds from ref.

Paul,

Thank you for your comments.  Any suggestions from what I consider to be an expert are very gratefully received.  Thank you.

Can I suggest looking at the videos from Andy Peters I know this features 0 gauge but he is just as good with 00 and N gauge ones 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54364-trebudoc-in-o-gauge-videos-page-28-29-31-to-33-36/page-28

 

post 695 on that page is the first part.

 

Not being rude cos I think you are a brilliant modeller but to me the backscene does not give an impression of distance the fields all look to be close like being in a valley and not seeing out of it.

Don

Don,

Thanks for the link I'll have a look tomorrow.  

In theory, my layout is supposed to be in a valley - what is now the A379 is the road along the back of the layout, the lane providing a convenient over bridge scenic break is "Bluegate Hill" leading south towards Kingston.  Because I doubt my ability to be able to paint the town of Modbury, I intend to hide it behind a copse/wooded area along the back and right hand end of the layout (although I will try to paint the church steeple appearing above the trees on the end).

Ian

Excellent timing!

 

Glad the paint job is going better now.

 

One small comment on the backscene... You've gone to a lot of effort to curve the backscene and avoid sharp corners. To my eye though that patch of trees on the horizon rather creates the illusion of a sharp corner, at least from the angle that the photos are taken. Probably because it has a sharp angle both on the horizon and at its 'front' edge.

 

Regards, Andy

Andy,

I totally agree.  I intend doing a bit of a re-work on that as I don't like it.  Luckily with acrylics you can over-paint .  The original idea was to bring the wood down to give an indication of a slope, and whilst I think to that end it is successful it doesn't look right to my eye.

Ian

Hi Ian, it is a tricky thing to get right. I'm fairly handy with a paintbrush, art wise, but anything I have ever attempted always looks like a painting attached to a huge billboard at the back of the scene. The way I have got around this is to deliberately continue the 'scenic' elements, foliage, colours, textures, up the back scene effectively blurring the boundary between the model and the vertical picture. The only thing I tend to simply apply as paint is the blue of the sky. This has worked well on victoria bridge, with its heavily wooded background.

Will,

I'm in the middle of having another go, this time I feel as though I'm having a little more success.  I think the blend between the modelled foreground and painted background is always something of an issue.  It can be done, Paul Bambrick has done so extremely effectively on "Buck's Hill", but relies on forced perspective which I haven't really got the space to do (the long back siding is only about 3-4 inches away from the back scene, and between it and the back scene is a road).

In desperation, I had thought about giving the whole rear area of the modelled scene a wooded look but that wasn't what I wanted so have decided to persevere until I get something I'm happy with.

I'm all for acrylics. You can start by laying down washes as you would for watercolour, what you don't like can be painted over as you would oils, but you don't have to wait for ages for it to dry out. Have you tried masking medium? I sketch in the rough scene with pencil, then paint in a margin with the medium below the horizon line, including stuff which penetrates the skyline such as tall buildings and trees. Then do your sky wash, working down from the top and adding more white as you get near the horizon, and working in the clouds. Once dry, rub out the medium. You can use it to protect the edge of what you have done as you progress with the terra firma part. Most of the small detail goes in the narrow strip just below the horizon. Lower down becomes foreground, and masses block out larger. Your work is shaping very well, just persevere with what you're doing.

I think that the problems I'm having with the acrylics is down to me not being familiar with them - I've painted in oils (many, many years ago), and also water colours more recently but never acrylics.  I feel as though I'm having more success this time though - I'm happier with the green shades I'm mixing, and having a fine spray mister on hand to moisten the palette occasionally is keeping the paint more workable.

On this second attempt I have initially blocked in the whole ground area with a lightish green (not quite a wash), and am building up the fields and trees, etc on that.  At least with acrylics you can over paint something that you are unhappy with!

Ian

Thank you for sharing your difficulties!  What 'Yes Minister' would call 'courageous'!  I find that it can be useful to take photos of the layout as it is and then sketch in the ideas for a backscene onto a printout or (if you are up to it) with a program such as Paintbrush on the computer. This method gives a feeling for scale and helps in visualising the whole scene. 

Thanks Mike,  I might give the "take a series of photos of the layout and try drawing on to those to get an idea" a go.

I don't know whether it will be any consolation for you but on the Pyrennees foothills above the bay of Roses (Catalonia) there are some ruins and ceramic plaques and on one of these there is a poem which I can't remember all, but it has a line reading more or less as "There are so many greens that you cannot count them..." and if you look out over the plain lying below, this is true, so you shouldn't worry about your varying shades of green.

Peter, thanks for that.  I think part of the trouble is that I know what I want and am struggling to achieve it!  The number of different colours/shades you can get by just mixing two colours is immense, but getting something that both complements but does not over power a foreground model is somewhat more difficult than I anticipated :-)

Good luck with that one Ian. Armed with the good advice from MRJ I tried my hand with Acrylics and found them rather tricky. I suspect it's a matter of practice because they do behave very differently from other paints. I must have another go some time.

 

Might I suggest starting with something smaller like an experimental vertical 'slice' on some scrap board until you are happy with the colour mixes?

 

Don't underestimate the need for bluish-grey in the far distance - it's pretty counter-intuitive but very effective when done well (and I don't count myself under the 'done well' heading).

 

Regards, Andy

Andy,

I have to admit that so far I cannot count acrylics as one of my favourite painting media.  They seem to become unworkable far too quickly, drying out on both palette and back scene before I want them to.  I have read that keeping a spray mister on hand to moisten the palette periodically can help, and whilst in Hobbycraft I picked up a bottle of something to prolong their working life too.

Hi Ian, I feel your pain! I've been trying to pluck up courage to tackle the backscene on my layout for nearly a year now! I don't know why it's so difficult to paint a decent landscape, although I've taken countless photos of rolling hills and know what I'm trying to achieve, whenever I put brush to paper it looks like somewhere the Teletubbies would inhabit! Good luck with the next attempt! Best wishes Dave

Dave,

Thank you.  I know what you mean!  In my minds eye I know exactly what I want, but ability is preventing me from getting there :-)

To me, the hills do not look they are that far away that they need to be in the blue/grey range.

Personally, I would be looking towards slightly richer colours, rather than duller.

That said: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Khris

Khris,

I think that that is another of the issues.  The more distant fields were not far enough away to warrant having their colours muted, but I had painted them to small so when compared with the foreground their size implied that they were far away.

Ian; Can't wait until we see you tackle clouds.

- I am putting off.

 

Chris Nevard has some clever tricks for landscape

detail, blending into distance.

 

Noel

Noel,

On my practice piece of lining paper, painting the clouds was not an issue - I was really quite pleased with the way they looked!

Isn't there a race on between John and Steve?

There was.  I think John won - his pannier has been seen running on St Ruth.  Steve's J94 was having another rebuild last time we spoke (it may even be a new chassis kit), and Steve is having a bit of a dalliance with things somewhat larger too.  I don't think any drink has been provided to the winner by the loser yet though :-)

Chris,

A very nice write up.  Glad that perseverance finally paid off, she looks lovely.  I look forward to seeing her trundling back and forth on St. Ruth next time you're back in the UK.

As an aside, neither Jerry or I bother with the resistor supplied with the Nigel Lawton motor (I don't think John Greenwood does either).

Regards,

Ian

Hi Ian, glad you like the trees!  I agree with you about the need for scale height trees to be set in a large expanse of landscape.  One of the limitations of my layout is the fact that the backscene is only 16 inches high.  Scale trees would obviously tower above this and look faintly ridiculous!   I suppose I could make a higher backscene, but then reaching the back of the layout from behind the baseboards would become very problematic even with my long arms!

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Modbury's trees, it's been a while since we've had an update on your progress!

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

Dave,

Progress on Modbury over the Winter has been a little sporadic - my other hobby of radio controlled car racing seems to take precedent over the Winter.  

However that's all over for another year, so I'm trying to get things like platforms in place and am currently making a waiting shelter for the down platform.  The shelter is a copy of the one that once stood at Bovey Tracey, and can be seen in the 1921 view of the station here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bovey/.  The shelter was an open fronted affair with a flat roofed gents tacked on the far end.  I have a couple of closer images that I have been able to estimate size from.

I have been invited to exhibit Modbury again at the 2mm Supermeet in June so I am trying to push the layout on a bit.

Ian

Dave,

Very nice trees!  Although not to scale they do look imposing (which is what a tree should be).  I never feel that trees modelled to scale look quite right (especially in the larger scales) because they literally dominate the small amount of space available, to look right they need to be set in an expanse of landscape (such as Pendon are able to do).  That said, it's nice to see 7mm scale trees that dwarf a locomotive.

I'm in the middle of making a few trees for Modbury using the method I described here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/595/entry-12543-more-trees-for-st-ruth-part-3/ when making some for St. Ruth.  I start off with a 36 strand length of copper cable about 15" long and by making loops in the wire I end up with something like this that stands some 4-6" tall (after planting) :

The trunk and lower branches then get a coat of PVA pollyfiller mix before spraying and adding foliage.

Ian

Something to note if you want them to more closely represent actual coaches is that the vehicle on the right hand end in your picture ​​needs two of the windows on each side filling in, we believe. If you are going to do it then I'll check which ones, or Ian might beat me to it since he enlightened me.

That's true.  When I was checking I couldn't find any photos (or drawings) of a T51 that looked like the kit.  I therefore made mine into a 6 wheeled T38 which in my period seems to have the luggage doors without droplights, and also had a single arc roof.  The doors may have received droplights in later life I guess (I didn't pursue checking it because I didn't need to know).  For info my blog entry here (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1009/entry-13639-2fs-gwr-4-6-wheel-coaches-u4-t38-and-coupling/) has a view of my coach ready for the paint shops.

One thing I did find with using the David Eveleigh underframes is that I felt the coaches sat too low.  The simple expedient of adding a plate of 0.020" black plasticard on top of the chassis to raise the bodies a little seemed to improve their look considerably in my view.