GordonC

That would be a pretty conclusive range of suburban DMUs and there would also be the class 118 and 125, but not many similar groups have appeared from manufacturers before. The Bachmann class 117/121 hasn't evolved into and other similar types yet. I'd prefer to see a Class 107 but is that too close to the 108. If it was easy and cheap to produce a different body, you'd think Bachmann would have done that already. Or Hornby with the 110 and the demand for a 104 ... It makes me think the body shell is probably a very large part of any tooling costs and savings in duplicating chassis and drivetrain between similar unitsis probably minimal

Thats a great photo of a great era with the mixed liveries There doesn't seem to be many Blue and Grey Mk2Fs on ebay at all other than BSO's and RFBs nevermind at bonkers prices. Having said that, the latest Bachmann Mk2Fs in other liveries aren't exactly cheap either Motorails did serve Newton-le-Willows between Scotland and the South West, perhaps that could have been a joining point

How widely travelled were the 119s though? I perhaps saw some, but dismissed them with the Derby fronts assuming 108/114 rather than notice the difference and I wonder whether a model would be the same. The 120 was a very distinctive unit that you could pick out at a distance from that cab front and windows so perhaps they stood out to me far more in Wales, North of England, East of England, East Midlands, Scotland where I'd have seen them. With Bachmann having the 117 already, I think it'd be brave to pick the 119 over 120 based on an intention to continue on to the 114/115/116/125 units as I think Bachmann would have a huge advantage to get there first.

Is there a CV setting somewhere for light brightness?

I really cant see any kind of market for that at all. Speaking as someone that has 2 of the recent Hornby efforts, I suspect that might well be as good as we get for a very long time if at all as it will still soak up a lot of demand. As much as I'm disappointed in it too, I think it'll be down to a bit of modelling to fettle up whats there. There must be an absolute ton of other prototypes that would be a better choice.

Class 120 2 (Blue-Grey) Class 126 2 (Blue-Grey) Class 303 at least 3 (Blue-Grey, Strathclyde Orange & Black (original & refurbished)) Class 304 1 (Blue-Grey, 3 car) Class 311 at least 1 (Blue-Grey, Strathclyde Orange & Black) Class 314 2 (Strathclyde Orange & Black)

One advantage of an older unit would be knowing all the liveries and tooling differences in their lifetime. For new units that just won't be known yet

kettles run on wooden sleepers and thats all that matters of course!!!!

I wasn't comparing to RMweb or any other forum, just that a lot of modellers wont be online on forums or Social Media at all

I cant imagine Discord or Social Media being a good place to measure who models what either. The general consensus from model manufacturers seems to be more of a trend towards BR Blue and Sectorisation taking over from transition era as most popular

I'm assuming you mean 'newer APT' rather than ATP, but some of us got burned with pre-ordering the 2020 release when it should have been fixed before releasing. The re-tooled HST is ok, but pretty pricey as it stands and I'd expect competition to do better. Mk3s are ok, I dont think they're a definitive model

I really dont know where you're getting your evidence from and just cant see pre-grouping being anything other than pretty niche and a rule 1 purchase because it looks pretty rather than a concerted effort to model a realistic scene due to the bespoke and localised stock and buildings. A determined effort would fund related purchases along a theme ... rule 1 will run out of pretty purchases

I suspect you'll probably have a higher rate of DCC Sound fitted compared to other manufacturers that offer both because the factory fitted sounds so good and things like speakers aren't scrimped on

I'd be very surprised if there was all that big a difference in costs between 3rd rail detailing and overhead to make it worth noting

I was meaning DC so DCC Sound being extra on top

For a good 303, I'd be looking at how much body parts are worth ... how much is a kidney??? 😉

Its probably quite a difficult question to answer and it would depend on how 'vital' the prototype is to my modelling area and whats on offer. Personally I'd be more interested in 3-car units (Class 120 & 126, Class 303/311, Class 304 (after losing a trailer), Class 314) and ones with a pantograph rather than running on a stabiliser rail. While I'm certainly more loco-centric, I do think multiple units are an obvious omission in the background and could potentially lead to all kinds of new 'branch-line terminus' layouts that are so familiar on steam-era layouts. For 3 car units, I'd probably expect up to £400, but with more vehicles expect the price per vehicle to be less so for 5 car units I'd think it'd need to be something pretty special to be more than £100 per vehicle and I really think the Bachmann ones are too expensive for what they are (which does seem to be reflected in some of the recent discounting to sell them). For the 5-WES, the middle car would be an obvious place for the motor. I'd always prefer a more beefy motor rather than one totally hidden away that feels weak. I've no problem with motors being in guards van areas, but the Bachmann Class 150 arrangement does look poor. Is there a point (e.g. number of vehicles) where through-wiring becomes more of a pain than having separate decoders in each vehicle (either decoder sockets or integrated like the Bachmann Mk2Fs)?

A lot of the Hornby criticism is justified - Id really need to think to come up with a Hornby product that hadn't disappointed in some way or other. And it's not that they're cheaper than other manufacturers, they just don't seem to make the same consistent level of effort between tooling, electrics and decoration. You make it sound like them producing so many pieces of track or scenery balances out their errors ... It doesn't

However you look at it, the 2020 APT models should never have been released in the state they were. Had they had issues resolved as with the second release I'd have been content with paying the pre-order price. As it was, I feel pretty robbed and treated with contempt by Hornby so I wont be buying anything else from them. I'm sure the way the coach extension packs were organised was an attempt to push selling 8-10 coach formations up to 14-15 car. Of course just because they're bought in pairs didn't mean you couldn't sell on what you didn't need or find someone else to swap with.

If the quality is right I dont mind paying £65 a coach - but Bachmann Mk1 and (early) Mk2s aren't at that quality. Mk2Fs are.

You would really think that Blue-Grey Mk1s and Mk2s would be the kind of things that should be always available and would be an obvious entry point for new modellers, but the pricing of them cant really help either with new releases being £65-£70 each. Perhaps the batch sizes have gotten smaller and that has increased prices, but it still looks exceptionally poor value compared to other coaches that are available.

While I agree with you, could that lead to problems of dwell times without multiple underground platforms being needed? Its quite different having local commuter services where passenger offloading and boarding is spread between several stations so the time to dwell at any one is short. If a Pendolino was stopping there and largely emptying with passengers from Euston, OOC or Manchester Airport then it could take some time for everyone to get unloaded before the platform could be cleared for the next train.

you can guarantee that would get funded too when it benefits London

They should have got their finger and chequebook out quicker to get hs1 built in the first place. It wasn't like Eurostars turned up from Europe unexpectedly after digging a tunnel to france

which would only end up costing more ... i.e. a waste