41516

On 18/03/2023 at 17:37, Chas Levin said:

where did you obtain the 1mm and 2mm NS strip - I'm having difficulty sourcing it?

Wizard Models do a pack with 1, 2 and 3mm strips in 0.010" NS,

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/tools/mt572/

I thought about this last night, there are a couple of 'tells' if it's a College Models kit or Scratchbuilt  (if it was Underhill/Zero Zephyr/CSP kit it should probably have the right shaped dome, not something like looks like it should be on a Jinty......)

The CM kit will have a half-etched oval on the cab rear where there should be a round access panel - Builders and tank capacity plates are typically below this round panel, one immediately below, the other either on the top section of the lower cab panel or below the top lamp iron.

You can also see how the cab is clearly not far enough back and the rather coarse detailing from the previous owner/builder.  The rear spectacle plates also are a little too high and too far apart - it joins the laundry list of problems.

Second - With the body off, is there a circular hole in the cab front?

1536 here needs a fairly significant rebuilt to get to a point where I would be truely happy with it.  At the moment it's sat on my desk at home as something to ponder over while I'm working.  Eventually it will end up as 41536 just before she went on the grand adventure from Burton up to the C&HPR for a few months in 1955, helping recover former shedmate 47000 after the accident at Steeplehouse while up there!

18 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Would it be of interest to take a full set of photos tomorrow so people can see what they think?

Yes please.  Mine has the opposite problem, everything is a little too far forward where the cab should noticeably overhang the rear bufferbeam.

I could only find a couple of shots of unbuilt College Model kits, but with enough detail I could pin it down as matching  and not the Underhill/CSP kit.  If yours is the CM kit, then it's had the tank rivets removed and a few other changes to match the first batch of five (1528-1532) with flush rivetted tanks.

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

So...about today...

7mm College Models kit? (based on the dome and cab rainstrips from the one I have)

There seems to be a lot more running plate ahead of the smokebox than there should be...

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Am I using the wrong buds?

Tamiya make some with pointed ends for modelling that don't shed fibres as readily as the everyday types.

5 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

I seem to think the LNER had them on their Dia 3 6 planks in the 1920s however?

Yes, photos of newly outshopped Dia 3 in Tatlow Vol 4a all with them, and some GN/CLC 19ft long 6 planks also had them (Tatlow Vol 1),  so a pre-grouping invention.

That'll be me misreading the renumbering here and missing the bit about additional numbering on top.

D1 you say?

Casks are resin clones of EFE (?) products, destined for the bowels of cattle wagons and other places not readily seen by human eyes but need cask-shaped objects within.

One more for casks in wagons - a very modellable load.

I've just received a LNWR invoice for 6 barrels and 8 kilderkins from Allsops in Burton to The Crown Inn at Audlem (which I think is here) in waggon 20485 on August 20th..... no year given but the invoice book is designed to have dates starting 187_!

Delivery via Willington, so I would assume out to Stoke via the NSR.  Audlem Station appears to be on the GWR, so Stoke to Audlem via Market Drayton or Nantwich?

Edit - Possibly via Wellington, on the Nantwich-Wellington line, via Stafford?

Equivilent load in a D3, just for fun.  I note now the wagon number given isn't in the usual range for the LNWR......

2 hours ago, Welchester said:

This photograph doesn't exactly answer your question, but it looks as though these shells in Burton-on-Trent are being loaded into open wagons.

These may well be empty shell cases, made locally (especially true after the 1915 shell scandal and many comparies that could produce shell casing turned over to war work) but waiting to be transported to a filling station. If that was the case, they'd be probably going to Chilwell,  National Filling Factory No. 6 ?

10 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

Once incorporated in shells bullets and bombs you have a relatively safe product.

Very true - I'm trying to think back to my time filling in Dangerous Goods Notes for transporting SAA as a CFAV*.   The actual explosive weight compared to the overall total was very small, but it still didn't stop the relevant JSP putting procedures in place based on quantity and not explosive mass as everything was scaled for things with much more 'oompf' than a few hundred rounds of .22 or 5.56mm...

As mentioned above, things like grenades and shells are reasonably inert until fused at 'point of use'.

*Cadet Forces Adult Volunteer

PM sent.

Should anyone else need help in this department, let me know.

If you can wait until tonight, I'll scan mine when I get home from work.

6 hours ago, Downendian said:

plus some Dapol 5 plank bodies (ex airfix tooling)

Can you get the old AIrfix body directly from Dapol?  The unpainted 10ft WB 5 planker bodies are yee olde Dublo mouldings (original Airfix body at the top).

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

I believe that a ring on the bayonet at A slips over a pip below the barrel at A on the rifle and I suspect there is a groove at B on the hilt of the bayonet that locates on the fitting at B on the rifle.

They do indeed - They bayonet looks to be the artist's impression of a hooked quillion 1907 pattern bayonet rather than the original 1903 pattern issued with the SMLEs, which would also help date the image.

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

At least his rifle looks more up to date than most of what he's wearing, but, note to self, I need to look at that!

SMLE, so no earlier than Jan 1904.

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Noah's Ark?

It resembles my normal output when given a new sheet of plasticard/brass with a square and attempt to cut out a regular shape....

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

It always rains in the last few hours of a Scout camp...

It was the same when I was involved with the DofE, always rained on the last night so wet kit all round for the last day.  It was less of a problem when I became a Expedition Assessor!

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

I think that is NBR.

Horizontal end planks, so D38B or later. Seems quite narrow so perhaps the 7'11" max width D38B and not the later 8'5" width vans?

There's a thread in the Smaller Suppliers section:

Hatton's Warwell with Bachmann containers added?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/233997/hattons_originals_h4_ww_012_warwell_wagon_50t_with_diamond_frame_bogies_dm748316_in_br_brown_with_bolster_de/stockdetail

Just to follow up with more photos.

"A K's Model"

K's and old Airfix RTR

Airfix/Triang

K's /Triang (plastic chassis)

Another K's and Triang with metal chassis

3 hours ago, Captain Slough said:

is a Toad (real thing) far smaller than any other guards van or is the Ks kit just underscale to the same extent the Dublo and Triang ones are over?

The K's kit is one of the shorter Toad varieties - AA3 where the Airfix is AA15 (I think).

I don't think it's HO - I think the Triang TOAD is a bit of a hulking monster next to the K's van!

Apologies for the quality, the light's not great in the loft as I quickly nipped up to get a snap.

Finding bright red pipes from the 1970s onwards is indisputable, absolutely no problem there but that's not the period I've been looking at, nor the period for the wagon which kicked this off. 

Looking at colour photos, there appears to be a change post steam where the colour definatively changes to a bright red as distinct from Freight Stock Red.

On 20/02/2023 at 11:18, hmrspaul said:

PS I have checked the 1959 repaint instructions and for all sorts of stock the vacuum pipe of a power brake wagon is Freight stock red (bauxite to modellers) and white for through pipe. 

@hmrspaul has also previously quoted an instruction before from 1969 with 'enamel red' as opposed to FSR ( Could you provide the source the 1969 instructions please Paul?)  

If this was the change it would be the simplest explanation why steam era pipes seem to be FSR and then a bright red is near-universal from the 1970s onwards.  Being a safety issue would also help explain the rapid change, as you've explained before.

1 hour ago, hmrspaul said:

It is why I've refused to have anything to do with a book on BR liveries as there would be too many comments that it was incorrect whatever was written. 

20 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Or maybe the WR was still doing its own thing and sticking to theh original Instruction.

Or both of these!

21 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The Southern van, LNER fruit van and GWR 'MOGO' will definitely be vac-fits ..... the others less easy to identify from those snippets.

All to the best of my knowledge fitted from built here - I excluded any obvious white piped wagons to keep it fully fitted only. Snippets so I didn't have to try and re-hunt down all sources/full photos to attribute for copyright.

L-R

BR 1/204 B751657

LNER Diag 116

SR van diag 1458?

LNER Fruit Diag 187 E285093

BR Iron ore hopper 1/182

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Though, having once owned a "red" car, how some brake stand-pipes painted that colour appeared after a few years outdoors, was probably quite variable...

Especially true for the swan necks between paint fade and filth.

GWR Mogo G31 W123983

B Class tank Esso 3555

BR 1/039 Hybar

BR 1/506 B952900 (vac fitted from lot 2741)

BR 1/208 van

6 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

PS I have checked the 1959 repaint instructions and for all sorts of stock the vacuum pipe of a power brake wagon is Freight stock red (bauxite to modellers) and white for through pipe. 

and back to

On 17/02/2023 at 12:18, The Stationmaster said:

Note re source for the above. Internal letter from the WR -

Operating Superiuntendents Office, Rolling Stock Section, dated 21 April 1952 

'It was recently decided by the railway Executiove ...   ...   the standpipes of fully fitted coaching and freight stock  ...   ... should be as follows -

 

Fully fitted coaching and freight stock - standpipe to be painted red ... ...

What shade of red would sir require?

I can only add I found it very difficult to find a steam era photo with a bright red pipe, the closest I found in my (admittedly limited) search of probably 1000 saved images (and mostly B/W) was this one from 53A models on Flickr (linked as they tend to request not to share images)- the brake van centre of frame - albeit post steam in 1969.

On 17/02/2023 at 14:42, The Stationmaster said:

As far as the standpipes are concerned it meant red - after all it refers to both passenger and freight vehicles in the same sentence.  The same colour would have to be used consistently otherwise the Instruction becomes  meaningless and we are talking about a safety issue.......

It does seem that either direction was not followed universally or body colour was tolerated for use on vac pipes on fitted freight stock in the steam era - I can only go from photograhic evidence as far as possible as I don't have the direct experience of my primary modelling period (mid 1950s) to go on.  

I've ignored any B/W images and anything post the end of steam for these, but most are from the 1960s (1950s colour images, especially of freight stock being rare) and from what I have to hand.

It's something I'd love to really get to the bottom of - the more evidence and research that can be pulled together then better, as far as I'm concerned. 

Swan necks are much harder, both to find good photos and because they are normally filthy!

12 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

BR Bauxite

Do you have a rough date for when this is supposed to represent?  Post 1952 the brake pipe should be painted freight red (bauxite) and only going to red enamel in the late 1960s, when I would expect the wagon to be out of service.

Previous details discussed previously on the subject:

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

DY11015 Burton, L&NWR wagon 44772 containing 8 butts whiskey 8/5/1919 Goods

DY11016 Burton, L&NWR wagon 44772 containing 8 butts whiskey 8/5/1919 Goods

DY11017 Burton, L&NWR wagon 44772 containing 8 butts whiskey, side down

DY11018 Burton, L&NWR wagon 44772 containing 8 butts whiskey, shewing butts and spaces

DY11019 Burton, L&NWR wagon 44772 containing 8 butts whiskey, shewing butts and spaces, perspective

DY11020 Burton, NBR wagon 4477 containing casks of port wine

DY11021 Burton, NBR wagon 4477 containing casks of port wine

As a possible guess, going to/from B Grant & Co Ltd, wine and spirit merchants based on Station Street and mere yards from the station itself. The building still stands, albeit converted to flats.

Edit: Possibly to be bottled, ready for distribution to pubs and other licensed properties.

https://whisky.auction/auctions/lot/66657/grant-s-invercauld-scotch-whisky