Izzy

Adding the grass I don’t know about anybody else but I really struggle at times to get even a small bit of grass to look anything close to realistic. But a recent comment I read might have changed that for me and how I approach all scenery in general in the future. Over the recent years I’ve bought quite a bit of static grass in differing colours none of which has turned out to be what I wanted. I’ve mixed it endlessly, laid different lengths in patches and so forth. Mostly the tonal shades just seem wrong. It has been very frustrating. Then just recently I read a comment that the person went over the static grass with whatever particular shade he wanted via an airbrush. Now I don’t know what type of paint was used but this simple action had just never occurred to me despite the fact I always weather the track and ballast. So when I had laid the Javis static grass I got a few days ago and once again it didn’t come up to expectations colour looks wise despite all the mixing of the various differing shades I thought it was the prime time to give this painting of static grass a whirl. And what a difference. Such a simple and easy solution which I now realise could be applied to most items connected with scenery making in respect to trees, bushes and so forth. I have never thought about painting any of it before but it does now seem quite a logical thing to do. Matt poster paint also seems a good medium to use and that’s what I have done. Having plenty helps here but it’s more about the light matt finish that results. It always dries quite a bit lighter tonally than when it is mixed and wet. Mostly. With pure white and black it’s a bit different and extra care is needed not to overdo them. I had first laid the grass using Hobbycraft ‘School Glue’ PVA with the grass being put on using a Gaugemaster/Nock puffer bottle with a bespoke nozzle on the end. So no fancy static grass applicators were harmed here. I did look at them once. For my tiny layouts they seemed complete overkill. And rather expensive on the whole for something that would get very little use. By contrast the puffer bottle was a quick and easy try out. At first I did think that perhaps I would have to spend a bit of cash on something better as the initial results were rather disappointing. But then I hit on the idea of using a spare nozzle off a Anita’s Tacky glue bottle to better contain and direct the grass. This just push fits over the head of the puffer bottle and it’s internal push fit cap with the large holes in it, and once cut down so there was a reasonable hole in the end it has proved ideal. All my recent layouts have been grassed with it. Although it can get a bit tiring squeezing the bottle multiple times in succession, and not huge amounts get puffed out with each squeeze, you can go back and forth over an area building up the thickness as required. That’s how I now do it anyway. I left it to dry out for an hour or two – the school glue goes off quite quickly - and then airbrushed it. Because I used my little Neo for this with it’s small 0.3mm needle I drew back and set the needle a bit to allow the poster paint to flow and not continually jam it up. Poster paint is quite coarse in contrast to the fluids such as ink and thinned enamel/acrylic paint normally meant to be used with such a fine size. I also set the psi at around 25-30. A few coats were needed as the thinned paint didn’t give much coverage in colour depth terms. I also varied the tonal shades and then did a pass with some beige/brown to tone it all down. I’m fairly happy with the final result as it stands at present. Not up to what others seem so easily to achieve, but far better than anything I have been able to produce before. It looks a bit uniform at the moment in respect of the earth banks but I’m hoping that when I add some buses and such like it will appear a bit more natural. After this I went and airbrushed the track. Various brown shades, black, and a coating of a greyish white to represent the cement dust getting blown around from the wagons. This does now mostly seem to have eliminated the mauve tint. Oh, the bridge has also had the weathering treatment with the Rowney pastels. As I gave the brick paper a coating of Ghost matt varnish before making it, I could attack it with both the airbrush and poster paints, (or rather the overspray from doing the grass), and then the pastels, without doing any harm to the base paper. I did a couple of times run a wet brush over some parts to alter things without affecting the printed paper beneath. Sorting the hand levers for the points will be next I think while I muse on the huts and lineside fencing along with some bushes. Bob

As others have said there is one make, Zimo, that generally stand head and shoulders above all others when it comes to motor control with any loco of whatever scale/gauge etc. Many of us have discovered this purely through trying a range of different makes. Of course the actual sizes of the various decoders varies as do what features each may have to suit particular circumstances and needs of an individual loco, but if they can’t/won’t run decently then all the bells and whistles in the world won’t make up for it. Sometime you can get lucky with other makes and each persons desires re running quality will be different, but for me it’s just Zimo now. Anything else is just hassle and/or disappointment. I accept they aren’t the cheapest but this is the judgement call you have to make. Bob

With my IPad in the last week or two I now keep getting Google adds appearing at the headers and footers of a page when I look at different pages. Refresh the page and they go, change page and they are back. This doesn’t happen with either my iPhone or laptop so I wonder if somehow it’s related to the latest iPad updates. Bob

As one of those many souls who for various reasons is unable to get to exhibitions these days and has never seen Lime Street in action the prospect of videos of it to watch is most welcome. Bob

Quite some years ago now, back when stacking first began to appear, and in connection with running a digital camera website I undertook a series of tests to see just how it ‘stacked’ up. So using a couple of different DSLR’s along with their normal lenses, nothing more than the average owner would use, I took optimum single shots at the best apertures for the lenses, f8 or f11, (after that lens diffraction degrades any image and mostly offsets any DOF advantage), and then did a series of stacking shots at the same apertures. In all cases what the single shots lacked in terms of total DOF they more than made up for in clarity and definition and were seen by all who viewed them as the better image. Now I admit that times have moved on and that the stacking software of today has evolved but the basics are that you can’t get past the fact that the average human eye can resolve 22 llpm ( line pairs per millimetre) and past that point details just merge. So large DOF is only good within certain parameters associated with viewing distance and size of reproduction of any given image. Bob

Thank you for your warning. It is highly unlikely any of my stock would/will ever run on other than my own layouts. Since reducing the voltage doesn't impact anything else as far as I am aware, (maybe top speed which is not a concern for me), and it reduces the risk factor, I don't see any reason not to. Bob

Yes and I'm most grateful to you for not only measuring it up and producing the drawing in the first place but posting here for the likes of me! Bob

Ah, my mistake Rich. To be honest I don't intend to do anything to them, they will stay as they are. I will add the hand levers at some stage, the wooden coverings for the mechs have been fitted following the drawing of the standard BR hand lever design, very kindly posted in the RMweb track section by @bécasse of one at Witney. But apart from that nothing else is really needed that I am aware of for hand operated points. Am I missing something obvious? I have a habit of doing that ...... I can't post a current shot of them because today I spent the morning laying the grass fibres and the rest of the day colouring them and the track with poster paints via the Neo and it has yet to fully and properly dry out. The shades can change considerably when it does and I feel there will be more to do yet even then. Perhaps when I am able to show the completed finished results with the hand levers in place it will look okay. Bob

Immaterial of the where and how as to the origin of these goods it’s down the road where problems for the unsuspecting could lay and with it Dapol’s overall reputation. The original purchaser of these will know where they bought them. But once sold on, as some might well be, then the subsequent owner will not believe them to be any thing other than genuine Dapol. There lies the issues that could arise. Perception’s of quality etc. complaints of poor performance, who knows. Cheap knock-off clones is bad enough with small items such as TP servos sold in large volumes for example, but worse for a smaller company with a more expensive product.

Thanks, that's good to know. I was advised by several others to reduce the track voltage and is why I then got the Z21 to replace the PA2 with it's fixed 14.9v track output. Bob

Is that the decoder or for the three wire stay-alive packs to work with them? I have read that with the Accurscale Manor that voltage was needed before the fitted SA pack would switch on but didn't realise it applied to the ESU decoder as well. Good job I don't have any ESU chips as I've just reduced my track voltage to 12v for less risk of 16v tantalums going 'bang', which I've had happen a couple of times now. Bob

Thanks Rich, I think perhaps it's a combination of a different brown pastel colour to normal combined with light refraction that's maybe the issue. The Javis earth is actually like small slivers of wood and I've spent a while rubbing it down. When first done it looked like stubble in a cereal crop field, which would have been ideal if that's what I had wanted. It's now had a poster paint coat via the airbrush. Once the grass is on top not much will show probably. Maybe just at the side of the ballast edge. I'm not really intending to do anything with the switch bank. Maybe drop them out and give the mountboard surroundings a fresh coat of paint, but that's all. I have raised the bank in front and at the side of them to the same height and will probably add a few shrubs/bushes etc. on top. But as this is the viewing and operating side I don't want it too high. Trying to cover them over would raise it far too much. Bob

A bit of colour Having got the track ballasted I have now been able to give it some basic weathering and build up the surroundings to provide the scenic framing, what little there will be. Weathering was carried out using Rowney pastels which are dropped on by brushing the pastel stick with a hard brush and then working the powder in and around using both hard and soft brushes. I mostly used a couple of brown shades and black and vacuum around to remove any surplus powder at regular intervals. I’m not sure the result is quite right yet, but the bullhead nature of the track at least does show a bit better. I tend to switch between airbrush weathering and pastels depending on what I think might work best. Airbrushing is very directional, is great for doing large areas in a uniform manner, or sometimes really tiny spot scenes, powders messy in a different way but easier to do in small bits, a bit here, a bit there, whereas using the airbrush means doing more in one go because of the extra work of cleaning up each time you stop or change colour. Not being totally happy with it at present I will next go over it with the airbrush using Reeves poster paint. I like using this as it always dries to a matt finish. At present the track has a slight mauve tint in certain lighting conditions and I am baffled as to why. At other angles and after a bit more weathering it doesn't look too bad But it can’t stay like that and I’m hoping playing around with the airbrush and poster paint will sort it. I have also built up the edges using surplus mountboard and foamcore offcuts. The intention is to try and lay a basic grass layer and then add some other vegetation where I think it might suit. At the moment a layer of Javis earth mix has been laid down. I’ve never used this before but found it in my local craft/model shop and thought I’d give it a try as an under-layer. It seems to be coloured sawdust as best as I can tell now it’s out of the packet and it looks like I might have to airbrush over it with some poster paint to get a uniform appearance that appears to actually be earth. But it was cheap compared to WS products so can’t complain. Three different colour bags of Javis 2mm fibres were less than one WS. A boundary fence is also being considered. All this is being done on the basis if I don’t like it, I’ll try again with something else. Worst case rip it up and start again. Plans are also in hand for a couple of huts. One to be used as a general rest hut for engine men and track side workers, another as a track maintenance store. One will be a concrete LNER type D hut, a larger size than I made for Priory Road, the sizes for these varying depending on requirements, the other perhaps wooden or brick, we’ll see. Oh, and a toilet hut I think. I’m basing all this around the premise of the original layout plan, as much what is outside the area modelled having an influence as what is seen. So the low bank at the front is meant to represent one sitting between the main running lines and the exchange sidings. And the huts are meant not only for the sidings but those concerned with the main lines in respect to the track maintenance aspects. Bob

I just recently discovered that Harder & Steenbeck are now owned by Iwata. Down the years I've acquired a few different airbrushes. Badger 200 (inherited from my son when he left home to make his way in the world), a couple of different sized Paasche single action bottom cups with a range of interchangable needles, and in more recent times a little gravity feed double action Iwata Neo along with a cheaper clone like one that came with the Expo tools compressor I also bought to use instead of the very heavy duty Aztec studio compressor (up to 80psi) I find is now just too heavy (15Kg ) to easily lug around. After nearly 40 years it's earned it's keep. There is no doubt the Iwata looks and feels much superior in the quality stakes than the others, but then it's much newer. The clone works okay-ish. Both are 0.3mm needle size so not for big jobs and large area coverage. Where they score with their gravity feed is the ability just to load a single brushful of paint for small touch-up jobs and weathering. However perhaps the most useful acquisition in recent years has been the Iwata cleaning/spray-out jar. That you can also hang the airbrush off it helps make it so useful, both while spraying, and with cleaning between colours or when finished. Everything contained so there is little or no mess. Wouldn't be without mine now. Bob

I got my Z21 just recently at a good price from: https://www.scograil.co.uk/ No handset with them though, that has to be obtained separately. I use a large Android phone as a dedicated throttle. Cheaply bought from Currys. The Z21 app is rather good for use with sound fitted locos but there are several handsets that will work with it if you prefer a rotary dial. The Roco WiFi Maus would be my preferred choice. https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/ have them in stock (same unit as Scograil but separate business) Bob

Yes, in the past I have always designed terminus layouts so that the fiddle was just for arriving and departing trains. All the action apart from that taking place in full view. But.... when it gets to the stage that there just isn't the space to do that, then compromise is neccesary, even if it means that things don't always depict real life. For to my mind any layout is better than no layout. I wrote an article many years ago, late 80's - Calculating Layouts (Your Model Railway) - about designing layouts in which the opening paragraphs described the situation of lofts and odd spaces no longer offering space, and which is even more present today thanks to modern house design where garages no longer exist even with larger 4/5 bed properties, just hard standing since few cars will now fit anyway. It might not seem so just at the present time but I believe that Hornby's decision to pursue TT120 could prove a clever move in the decades to come if they can keep it and themselves going. Bob

Hand uncoupling – with a magnet Exchange Yard Sidings is proving to be interesting in that it has prompted me to try several new ideas concerning it’s construction and use. Firstly it was the track, then the point tie-bars, now it’s how I uncouple the DG’s. Those using DG’s usually use magnets with which to achieve uncoupling. Either electro magnets buried in the track or under-baseboard permanent ones moved in and out of position by one means or another. I’ve tried both methods with different 2mm layouts I have built in the past. Both worked but had drawbacks I wasn’t keen on, either in the amount of hardware required to make them work, or the unrealistic way stock had to be moved around to accomplish it. And of course these methods can’t be used in a fiddle yard. So with more recent layouts I’ve resorted to uncoupling by hand using a piece of wire on a handle to lift the loops thus allowing the stock to be parted, which can be done anywhere I want on the layout including the fiddle, so very flexible in that respect. But it isn’t particularly easy to do and as I get older with my eyesight and hand co-ordination becoming less than it use to be I’ve looked for easier ways of doing it. Recently I read about people using steel loops and waving magnets around to attract them upwards. I think this was in 4mm, not sure, but it sounded quite a good idea. My reservations were concerned with whether the stock was heavy enough to resist being pulled upwards and off the track by the strength of the magnet. But it did sound simpler and perhaps easier to achieve. There was only one way to find out, try it using one of the 6x6mm cylindrical neodymium magnets I had. With a pack of DG’s from the 2mm shops you get a coil of 30swg PB wire and a coil of 29swg steel wire. I’ve always made the loops out of the PB so had plenty of the steel coils with which to make steel ones. These only had to be simple loops with no tail but a gap to allow them to be fitted into the pivots. So a rectangle with a slot in one end. I marked a pair of snipe pliers where the right length for the sides and ends were and then bent some up I then removed the PB loops and fitted the replacement steel ones. I tried a couple of the Farish depressed centre PCA’s I had first. Using a round 6x6mm neodymium glued on the end of a coffee stirrer I waved it around the ends and the loops rose upwards and came down on top of the latches just as is meant to happen. I found if you got the magnet too close the wagons would indeed be drawn towards the magnet but with a few goes I began to see the basic concept would work. So I converted some more wagons to steel loops. A few 12t vans. These are plastic bodies on etched underframes. Here the metal underframes made it even more important that the magnet was kept at distance otherwise the vans just literally flew onto the magnet. But with more practice I found that it could work quite well. So I have spent the last few days bending up sets of steel loops and fitting them to all my stock. I still have quite a way to go. About 40 wagons have been converted so far, with about the same again along with all the coaching stock. I think I might have to get some more steel wire to be able to make enough loops. The question seems to be which runs out first, the steel wire or stock to convert. But it is proving much easier to use. And nice and simple. I like that, keeping things simple. In other news the basic ballasting has been completed and the bridge now glued into position. Testing of the track with locos and wagons has been undertaken during the job to ensure it all carried on working as it should. That points didn’t get jammed up with either ballast or glue. Using the Woodland Scenics scenic cement glue does mean it’s a slow job. This is because it’s very runny, like water, and thus not very strong. It takes a few doses to fully harden off the ballast, and it must be left overnight/24hrs to let each dose properly dry out. It doesn’t fully harden off until it does. So I have had plenty of time to bend up all those steel loops …….. There is a bit more ballasting to do, odd bits where it hasn’t taken properly, and then I can give it a basic coat of weathering to try and make it look less stark. This will lower the contrast and bring out the details a bit more – I hope. The basics for the point levers have also been fitted. These won’t be made and added until later to prevent them getting caught and damaged/pulled about. Been there etc……. Bob

I’m currently experimenting with steel formed loops with no tail …. and operated by hand by waving a 6x6mm neodymium magnet above/around them. Nice and simple, and seems to work! Bob

Generally most DG users set the couplings hard up against the underside of the wagon bufferbeams. Whatever that measurement turns out to be, I'm not sure what it actually is. But you can set any height you want if you aren't intending to couple your stock to that of others, say on a group layout or whatever, when of course the same height is needed. I actually set mine at the height required to fit on the top of coach and diesel loco bogies, which is about 1mm lower than normal. Bob

That seems like a good idea John. What I did do was to layer them so they were plain both sides, put the half etch on the inside which can then be flooded with solder. I thought that would make them stronger. But leaving one side as long as possible and cutting the other to suit is something I haven't tried to date as it depends on the lenghts needed but could well be better still when it can be done. Bob

If you watch the video's of Ian's layout in action you will see a shunter is used to release locos. This adds I think to these kind of minimum space layouts set as secondary terminus affairs in increasing the play value where the owner just hasn't the real estate to build a larger layout with a loop. There are many others such as myself in this situation at times. I find using the fiddle as the other half of the run round is also very useful when that design can be employed as with the layouts shown here. All these ideas are 'needs must when the devil drives' kind of thing. Bob

Hunslet - new coupling rods Having used the loco to test the build of Exchange Yard Sidings it’s had quite a bit of running. Now that the layout is up and running I have taken the opportunity to further refine it in that I have made replacement coupling rods. This is the one aspect of it that has stood out for me as being rather overscale during all the testing. I made up some using the cut & shut method from the J94 rods on the 3-205 etch for Farish locos. They look a bit better size wise. Making these meant that new crankpins were also required. The originals are shouldered 14ba bolts so I took some 14ba countersunk screws and filed them down to remove the head and thread and leave the main shank at 0.5mm with just 2mm thread to go into the wheel. Once screwed in they were retained with some cryno. Retaining washers were cut from some 1mm OD/0.5mm ID Albion alloy brass tube. I decided to paint them yellow thinking that Blue Circle might have thought that a good idea after seeing BR start doing that with it’s shunters and that it would go well with their colour scheme. Now all I have to do it weather it, perhaps using the airbrush, I’m not sure at the moment. Here’s a shot with a couple of cement wagons I am fitting with simple steel loops for the DG’s. This is an experiment to see if uncoupling by waving a magnet over them will prove workable. Tests so far indicate it is, but until the ballasting of Exchange Yard Sidings is done and the track is usable again I won’t really know.

I think as soon as you add 'sound' into the equation that alters how well many systems/handsets work with it. Yes, many can handle up to the 28 functions now, even though a few locos are already in excess of that, but it's more about how they cope that becomes the issue. Multile button pressing just to set/use a higher function number becomes a real pain. You may only want to use a few of them, but you can't sort them to suit, no adjustment of any kind. This leads you to discover, as I have, that is really only glass screen systems of one type or another that suit. I have now adopted a Z21 after 14 years of a Prodigy PA2. Used with a cheap large android smart phone as the throttle (£59) it's been a revelation as to the way it can be set to suit the individual user. Choose what sound functions you want, in the order you want them, and how they operate, latching/non-latching etc. Give them names. No having to use a crib sheet or remember Fn numbers for each individual loco. More costly. Yes. But worth it? Without doubt. Yet actually the new Z21 and the phone cost no more than I paid for my PA2 system. If you don't use sound then it's a different matter in many respects but the fact remains that many systems just don't have the adjustments, even basic ones, that the better European ones do. In this regard it might be that the new system coming from Bachmann might give many modellers what they need. Until it arrives no one will really know but it might be worth hanging on to find out. Bob

A few problems I think with a thread like this that relates to the building of something it’s important to mention any issues and problems that are encountered so the impression isn’t given that it’s always plain sailing. Otherwise those hitting similar difficulties get discouraged by thinking it’s just their lack of skill or such like whereas in my experience everybody has aspects that don’t go well at times. Mostly the trick is in overcoming them in one way or another, by fair means or foul as they say….. After finishing the track I then went to paint the sleepers with back poster paint. Just to give them a basic colour before ballasting. Usually in the larger scales I’ve just done this with a brush by hand. A watered down wash to soak in to the ply sleepers. Then paint the chairs and rails later along with giving everything weathering via various tones etc. However for some reason the poster paint didn’t really work at all well, the ply didn’t want to absorb the paint. So since I also intended to give the metal bufferstops a coat I thought perhaps the best thing to do was to get out the airbrush. A while back I obtained a little double action Iwata Neo for my 2mm work and also got a small compressor from Expo tools that came with a cheap double action airbrush. This has a larger built-in gravity cup so I thought it would be best to use this for the job, able to hold a larger volume of thinned down poster paint given the area coverage needed. It is still only a small 0.3mm needle job but okay for this scale. Any greater area and I be wanting to get out one of my larger needle Paasche single action bottom cup airbrushes. This is one of those horses for courses situations where you need different airbrushes relative to the size of the work involved. I also have a bigger and heavier (15Kg) Aztec silent air compressor to use with them that can deliver the amount of air they need at the correct pressure & volume but given that with age I now struggle to lug it around I rarely use it or the older airbrushes. But they are there if I really need them. They have given good service over the 40 odd years I’ve had them so investing in good equipment is never a waste. The advantage of airbrushing the poster paint is that it went on as a thin coat and covered much better, but also coated the chairs/rail. To be honest although some modellers like to paint the chairs and sides of the rails in a red rust colour in reality they are usually much darker so I thought that with subsequent weathering it would probably look okay. Lighter tones of brake and cement dust that would provide contrast and thus help bring out some detail. Most track apart from some main lines seems to take on the mantle of various shades of brown, an overall brownish hue thanks to the seeping of the creosote out of the sleepers along with the general dust and dirt blown around. Well, until concrete sleeper days where it now stays much cleaner in the sense weathering is more gradual and mostly just atmospheric elements alongside brake dust and oil stains etc. After the painting I left it a couple of days to let it all bed in. This is when the problems started to appear. Having cleaned the top of the rails after airbrushing to remove most of the excess paint before it dried I went over them with a Peco rubber – it’s all I ever use although others seem dead set against them – and then plugged in the DCC system to check it all. It immediately shut down with a short circuit warning as soon as the track power was engaged. After checking it all I came to the conclusion that one of the bufferstops must be the culprit. As they are metal etchings the actual bufferbeam must either be wood, as it was with one, or they need isolating from the uprights. I do this by using thin layers of plasticard between them. Having glued them into place I had to break off all three before I found the one where this insulation had not worked for some reason. I had used Evergreen 5thou so tried again using 10thou, which then seems to have worked. That it had broken down on both legs seems weird. I use EMA liquid poly to glue the plasticard in place. It’s a different formulation to either pure butanone or Slater Mek Pak, both of which I also have, and produces a really strong joint with jobs like this. More horses for courses. Having sorted this issue I then found another. Putting the loco on the track to test it all it started jumping/jerking at the toe of the points. I looked at the track and then could see the problem. The rails joints were not aligned.??? What was going on. It took me quite a while to discover the cause. Now when I originally laid the sleepers on the templates I had no intention that they would remain permanently on them. So I just used two thin strips of d/s tape to locate them in place. A strip under where each rail would be. Just to hold the sleepers in place while the track was built. Had I meant to leave them on then I would have used a full width strip of d/s tape. The issue was that while it is almost impossible to pull the sleepers upwards, the tape will allow them to be pushed sideways a bit. And this was what was happening. It was all the fault of the Hacked servos. The brass sprung wire used to absorb the excess travel needed over the movement of the tie-bars means they are always exerting pressure on the blades. This is good in the sense it means they are always firmly located up against the stock rail, but when the sleepers can be pushed sideways ….. So I manually set the servos to the mid-point of the tie-bar travel, waited until the track joints moved back into allignment, and then flooded high viscocity cryno around the first few sleepers either side of the track joints to hopefully lock them to the baseboard. After leaving it a day, and then setting the servos back to applying the pressure it all seems to have worked out. No more movement. I wanted this sorted before ballasting because I didn’t want to rely on the ballasting holding them firmly in place just in case this didn’t happen when it would be much harder to correct if that needed removing first. I am pleased with the tie-bars. Not only do they work well they look decent too. With all that sorted I can now move on to the ballasting. This is a job I don’t enjoy at all. It takes a long time and never seems to work in exactly the same way or look quite the same each time even though I use the same ballast, Woodland scenics extra fine grey, and the same glue, their scenic cement, which I apply with a pippette. However it should, hopefully, start to make the track look a bit better. Bob

Could it simply be that a connection somewhere in the wiring for the program track has broken? I’ve only ever used POM with my PA2. No danger of programming other than the chosen loco as you have to input the address to make changes. You could try using it, might show whether the issue lies just with the program output somewhere along the line. Bob