Izzy

Personally I think the Kinesis system would benefit from a different handset design. A smartphone screen type one instead of all the buttons but combined with rotary control for the actual throttle/speed. Don’t know whether that combination is feasible electronically, perhaps not.

A Z21 After thinking through all the aspects with regard to the recent posts concerning DCC track power levels, stay-alives with 16v tantalums, and the quite small decoders used in 2mm I decided to take advantage of the special price my nearest local Railway Model Shop sells the Roco Z21 at and paid them a visit and obtained one. This is Scograil and they share a outlet in Ipswich with Coastal DCC and Orwell Models. My Gaugemaster/MRC Prodigy system has thus been withdrawn from use and put into reserve status for the immediate future. It’s served me well for 14 years. I had the Z21 up and running in about 15mins and is being used with a cheap dedicated 6.5” android smartphone, a Redmi A1, as the throttle. This was obtained last year from Currys for £59 and so this new combination has cost about the same as I originally paid for the basic Prodigy PA2 in 2010. Whether I will invest in a Wlanmaus handset as an alternative with rotary control is moot. Apparently it can’t share the same loco database, which is a significant drawback. But it’s an option to consider. So the track power is now set at 12v. I also intend to set the Circuit breaker trip at the best level for 2mm, if I can work out what that should be. At the moment I’m spending the time entering all the locos into the database. This is taking a while but having photos and description to select which one to use is I find very helpful compared to having to remember each locos DCC address. Another advantage of using a phone/pad as the throttle is in having a description of every function assigned to each loco for ease of selection. My iphone and ipad will get the layout/loco databases as both a backup and as alternative throttles when needed. These are easily transferred between devices over wi-fi. Bob

Yes, I see that now. In which case seeing as it's a pre-DCC ready chassis it's really a case of going back to the start and re-doing everything again. With only four wires/connections it has to come back to the fact the body is breaking one of those connections when it's fitted, or is causing one of the motor feeds to touch the chassis. That can be goodbye to the decoder so must be avoided at all costs. As the track connections are being made by connecting the black/red feeds to the chassis screws I'd check them first. The plug is plastic so it may be preventing constant connection under pressure. But also make sure those soldered connections to the motor can't press against the chassis in any way. The wire insulation stripped back too far. Often these problems can be the silliest little thing. Bob

The NGS Hunslet is now 2FS and in a different guise after a bit of painting and a few home brew transfers. It could probably benefit looks wise from association wheels and different coupling rods but in normal use they don't show too much. I'll post a bit more on my RTR conversion thread for anybody interested. Bob

Is this a Wi-Fi controller that's playing up and not a wired one? That has it's own on/off slider switch to preserve battery life when not in use. If it is playing up, not making proper contact anymore, I would think that is a very easy fix one way or another. The only other switch is the main on/off slider one on the base/command station. Bob

If these are 6-pin decoders then it can help ensure contact in the socket by bending/putting a kink in the pins so they are a firm fit. As said it could be the body is pressing on the decoder enough to break contact with one of the pins. If it is pressing on the decoder also make sure it's not able to press it against the metal chassis or the pcb. Some tape between the decoder and the chassis/pcb etc. can be a good idea for insulation in case this is the issue. Bob

Circuit Breaker

I fully understand that for most users the default settings for track power and CB will work just fine, and I'm grateful for the comments. However I actually chose the Z21 with the express purpose of using lower track levels and - hopefully - lower amp ratings for the CB. I presume the fast setting trips at a lower amp level. It's the parameters of the latter that I would like to find more details of. This is in connection with a subject that I won't expand upon here. So in this respect it's an experiment that might or not prove of benefit to me, only time will tell. What I can say is that irrespective of that I already find that obtaining the Z21 is not something I regret. That I got it for less than I paid for the Prodigy all those years ago was just a bonus. I actually picked it up in person from my nearest/local railway model shop, Scograil, who retail them for a special price. They are in the same unit as Coastal DCC and Orwell Model railways in Ipswich so it's very handy. Bob

Yes, thanks, I have tried to read up all I could find on the system. Both before I obtained it, just to make sure I was making the right choice, and since. Much of the emphasis seems to be on getting things all connected up in the first place. This I found very simple and easy. Up and working in 5-10mins with either the cheap dedicated android phone I bought to use just as a throttle (Redmi A1 £59 Curry’s) or my iPhone/ipad. I will contact Roco with my query re the short circuit setting, thanks for the suggestion. It would be nice to know for just reference if nothing else. Bob

I find with the odd ‘fussy’ loco on a program track that it is helpful to physically hold them down to ensure proper contact. Did you try running the loco with the decoder at the default address before attempting to change it? Always a good idea to do that first with a new decoder. I do wonder if the attempt to change the address has sent a scrambled signal that the decoder read as something else and it does need a re-set. Shame your system can’t do that. Bob

Yes, but as they worked okay on the Prodigy I didn’t bother. Totally forgot about the issue until now. As said above it was an issue with the early TTS decoders which would only work one way around on certain systems. Something about them only reading signals in one direction whereas decoders generally read them both ways. Apparently this also applies to DCC systems. Some send bi-directional, others don’t. I think I have this correct. So on directional systems these particular decoders had to match the signal direction from the system otherwise it seemed the decoder was dead/faulty and wouldn’t work, which they were in comparison to others. For a while today I couldn’t work out why these locos wouldn’t work as I tried to enter them into the loco library. Thankfully it occurred to me just as I was about to strip the first one down….. Bob

Since 2010 I’ve used a Prodigy PA2 alongside a Sprog with which I do all programming so the comparisons are interesting. The main benefits are the ease of control with sound locos in respect to functions, no hassle trying to remember what each particular locos are, and the adjustments such as track power levels etc. indeed it was the latter which was one major impetus to get the Z21. I have discovered the difference in control with the slider with as you say the differential being much better. It’s perhaps surprising there are no alternative throttle options as with JMRI/Engine Driver/ WiThrottle, speed steps etc. but perhaps the slider is considered more than adequate on its own. Those who don’t like it having options for various handsets with rotary controls. One very slight downside I have encountered is that it appears the system doesn’t provide bi-direction signals ( I think that’s the correct term) as the Prodigy. So now locos fitted with the early Hornby TTS diesel chips will only work one way around on the track. Nothing is ever perfect is it? Bob

I have looked at the old app, which is still available for apple but not for android, but do prefer the latest version. Perhaps it's what you get used to. I've also now managed to work out how to alter the loco library order. Press the pen symbol in vehicles and then hold down your finger over the menu on the right and move up/down. The menu is hard to see and if you just touch it then the next screen pops up. I do think the legibility of some aspects could be better. Like so many apps once you work them out it all seems so easy ........ Now to try and load images ...... Bob

Thanks. I guess the no internet warning is the downside of using a generic router rather than a dedicated one. No doubt I'll get used to it all but I wish they gave a bit more info on the various options. I'm still trying to work out all the loco library options. Having multiple layout sets is one way I've discovered. Sadly I've lost the RMweb thread detailing how to sort individual libraries into the order preferred rather than how they were loaded. I thought I knew how it worked but apparently not. Or I can't get it too. That I'm swapping between android and apple devices of different screen sizes trying to sort it out probably doesn't help, nor that the guides all seem to use the previous app rather than the latest version. Bob

For model building carcasses an alternative to use is mount board. Actually for lightweight baseboards although I started off using multi-layer mount board I now use 5mm foamcore with a 'skin' of mount board on each side. Bob

I've now invested in a Z21 and there are a couple of queries I have that I can't find answers for. I should add that I had it up and running without issue and managed to find answers to the issues of sorting the loco library in the order I want - once I populate it! - and sharing it with other devices/backing it up. But I can't find out whether the orange light that flashes continuously on the TP link router is correct. Is it just an indication there is no internet connection? Can it be turned off? I have had no issues connecting through it so I guess so, but it would be nice to know. Secondly in the maintainence tool there is the option to alter the short circuit track response. But no details of what the range means. It's set to the left at 'normal'. the bar has the figure 20 in the middle, and 'fast' at the right hand limit. It says this adjustment is useful for N gauge. Do they mean set at 'fast'? Is this a lower voltage trip level? Confusingly there is also separate adjustment for the B-BUS but this has 5 as the middle figure. Sadly there is no mention of what the range of adjustment delivers. Does anybody know? many thanks, Bob

Is it the OP’s primary power supply to the base station that has apparently failed, or a secondary booster? The normal supply is 3.5amp, the separate booster available 8amp. If it’s the latter then how do you know whether it’s the power brick or something else? Can’t understand Gaugemaster refusing to offer assistance when they are apparently still selling the system. I know they have their own new DCC systems in the pipeline but this is very poor customer service which is contrary to what has previously been the case. I wonder what’s going on. Bob

Today I spent most of it trying to reduce the track voltage the Prodigy PA2 puts out. As suggested by @Nigelcliffe I obtained some UF5404 diodes with which to do this. Ultimately this has not been successful. As diodes generally drop 0.7v I got the idea to use 4 pairs to drop 2.8v so reducing the 14.9v at the track to 12.1v. The plan was to have two pairs on each feed to make it easier to arrange. Here I hit the first problem. The voltage only reduced down to 13.5v. So it seems these diodes are quite efficient and only drop 0.35v. This then meant it needed 8 pairs to get down to that 12.1v. This took some arranging, 4 pairs on each feed in the space I had available since the base station sits in an A4 size really useful box on the floor under a layout. Once I had finally arranged this and tested the output which did sit at 12.1v I tried the system with my test track and two layouts. The test track is just a plain oval on a piece of hardboard, useful for testing newly acquired locos or running stuff in. I measured 12.1v at the track and the loco used ran, but didn't seem to have any power. Stop the loco from moving and it could barely turn the wheels even at maximum speed. This seemed weird and far from normal. Connecting up to the first layout - Priory Road - the track voltage varied depending if the accessory bus to the voltage regulator was switched on or off. If off it was 11.8v but if on, so the signals and hacked servos could be used, this dropped to 10.5v. Locos again ran but not like normal, while the points struggled to move. With the second layout it was worse. The track power was just 9.5v and points wouldn't throw properly, like the locos they seemed to lack power. At this point I felt the diode chains were badly affecting the base station output and so then removed them. Although in theory adding them should cause no harm I worried it had. Thankfully with it all reverted back to standard it all worked again as it should. Track power was back to 14.9v and all points threw correctly. So, with a Prodigy system at least, this way of reducing track voltage doesn't work for whatever reason that might be, and I will just have to either accept and allow for the track voltage, or change DCC system to one where the track voltage can be set to choice, as with the Roco Z21. Bob

They are just great Andy. The subtle finish you have got on the bodies along with the fine stone loads just takes them to another level. Brilliant. Bob

Given that postal orders no longer exist AFAIK and the vast majority don’t have cheque accounts, electronic means of some kind for payment are needed. I see you can now order online, and then pay via credit/debit card, BACS, or PayPal, following an invoice, so it seems Squires are covering these problems. Given the vast range of small bits and pieces they stock perhaps this is more managable for them if they don’t have the resources to be able to generate and maintain a ‘live’ stock level system. This also seems preferable to me than ordering and paying from e-commerce sites that don’t have current stock levels where items are o/s which then gets frustrating and annoying if available elsewhere.

Thanks for all that info @Nigelcliffe, that’s very helpful info for anybody with one of these. It’s such a shame CT are no longer around as I see it’s giving the NGS problems with trying to complete the orders it has for them. I am minded just to thin the flanges and leave it at that seeing as there is quite a bit of body overhang all around to help disguise the wheel width. Thinning them means faffing around with repeating the recess for those brass inserts. Yes, reducing the Prodigy output is being worked on. Though adding another CB isn’t at present given the last time I tried it the PSX duffed over the base station and I now understand Gaugemaster are no longer undertaking repairs of any kind with them so I don’t want to take the risk. Bob

Having had a look at the evolved wheel design used this evening (compared to the last Farish split-axle locos before the return to wiper pickups) I think a re-machine of the wheels will do the job. They appear to be central castings ( I don't think they are plated machined brass but they might be) with large rear stub axle and an etched brass spokes insert, so thinning the flanges and reducing the overall wheel width seems possible. Bob

It's a funny old world sometimes isn't it? After lunch today I popped to my nearest WHS to get MRJ 301. I also took the opportunity to go into the art & craft shop to get a couple of bits, drills & glue, and came out as well with this, which was quite unexpected. They do stock some railway modelling bits and it was in the cabinet for sale at the same price the NGS is currently selling them for. Bought by someone associated with the shop but never opened or run. I'm not a NGS member so have never considered getting one, but looking at the little thing, knowing it was decoder + stay-alive fitted, how could you refuse? You can see the family resemblance alongside my Hunslet 05. I just gave it a brief run on the odd piece of track via a 9v PP3. Runs very nicely. Of course being me I couldn't resist just undoing the odd few screws ..... The quality of the design shines through. So neat and clean in all aspects. Now all I need to do is remove those horrible couplings, fit some DG's, oh, and work out how to convert it to 2FS! I suppose a bit of weathering might also happen .... Then work out how/when to run this very rule 1 purchase... A tiny shunting plank might be called for perhaps. Bob

I had thought about doing something like that, Nick Mitchell suggested reducing the track voltage when the first 16v tantalum went bang some time ago, but I wondered if it would have any side-effect on decoder performance in respect of motor control so didn't take it any further. Thanks for highlighting how I might achieve it. Would you have any code numbers for suitable diodes Nigel? I presume you mean fast recovery diodes. I've had a look around but as usual the more I look the more confused I get .... Bob

Thanks for the thought Jan. It's 14.9v. As it's a Prodigy PA2 system sadly there are no adjustments I can make. It's a very limited/closed system - expensive for what it is today where the Z21 would be my choice - but as I only want it for loco control I stick with it because the 3.5 amp output gives plenty of overhead for powering the hacked servos etc. through a voltage regulator (plus I have a wi-fi handset). Bob