Pint of Adnams

Oh dear, touched that nerve again have we? The Hornby non-vestibuled (non-gangwayed) Gresley and Thompson stock are out of production. Hornby has in its catalogue dozens of early-BR period locomotives but barely three crimson and cream coaches and two of those are SR. It's a gross exaggeration to assert that half the class weren't even on the GER post-1923, and most of those that did wander returned relatively quickly, the remaining few were taken into military service in the 1940s. Good on Accurascale for catering for those that did wander afield though. My friend Dan only maintains stock of his 7mm kits, and they are limited these days. His 4mm range is subject to very restricted production so no proper choice there, an individual might be lucky to drop on one but not in volume. He's no spring chicken, has increasing family commitments, and I do wonder what will happen to his etches and masters in due time. By 'all the kits' I guess that you can only imply the Everleigh productions, or are anticipating the gradual reintroduction of Ian Kirk's former kits?

The suburban stock used on the GER's inner suburban routes, excluding the recently-constructed 54' Ilford sets, was very rapidly replaced by the Gresley Quins, the first of the latter appearing early in 1925. At that time there were insufficient N7s for all of the scheduled workings, so this period offers a neat Buckjumper/N7 overlap with all of the pre-WW2 LNER locomotive and coaching stock livery variations in play to boot. The Quins remained in active service until full electrification late in 1960 - I remember them well. If there were to be further GE locomotives, such as the T26/E4, complementing the Hornby J15, Claud and B12 (and B17), then examples of the GER 50' or 54' gangwayed stock built post-1900 and saw main line service to begin with and lasted through on secondary and branch line services until the end of steam in East Anglia. The Kitchen/Restaurant Cars lasted even longer. I'm fairly sure that there are some thinking caps being worn at Accurascale, especially if noting the interest in and success of the Rapido W&U offerings as well as their own Buckjumpers.

BTW - note that the front and rear spectacle plates are correctly painted black, not blue, as are the footplate, tank tops and condenser fittings, coal rails and bunker.

I really think once again you are being persistent to the point of obtuseness. French Grey is a recognised colour name, albeit one that may have several shades or hues, and dates back to the 18C - see Dungrange's erudite posting above.

... give him a ring?

Ask not what the GERS has done for you, but what you can do for the GERS... after some bloke called Kennedy?

The content of the GERS Information Sheets was compiled by Lyn D Brooks, the Society's Locomotive information Co-ordinator and the person who not only has compiled the most comprehensive and complete information on locomotive classes, including for example details not covered by the RCTS, but produced CADs of all of the variations of popular types including the Buckjumpers. He was the source of much information to Hornby and Accurascale, and members of the GERS will have another contemporary delight with the next issue of the Journal. His sources include what Stratford records were available, unfortunately copies of the official paint specifications were not among them but those used in the Paint Shop were and these were passed to the GERS by either Cecil J Allen or Ken Nunn, and the other people who worked there in the drawing office or the works. The GERS has been going for 50 years and amongst its assets is an original tin of Sissons Ultramarine oil paint, which was used in the formulation of Precision Paints P507 GER Ultramarine. It's probable that the other Precision colours relied on these extant specifications. So I'll very happily take your money and pass it on to the GERS as a donation... 😁

Three I think you will find, for the Great Eastern purchased 15 2-6-0 locomotives of similar styling, complete with sandbox on the boiler, ordered by William Adams and built by Messrs Neilson in 1879-80, the first of this wheel arrangement in the country with the first of the class named 'MOGUL'. The derivation of Adam's future 2-6-0 for the LSWR is obvious, and one was ordered by Belgian State Railways from Neilsons. GER Class 527 - Wikipedia

Good to see that quirky East Anglian examples are well-represented this time around. If Model Rail can commission the smaller Y1 and Y3 Sentinels then the Y10 version should be easy-peasy, and with Wickham railcars and very early locomotives actually be produced then scaled down workable mechanisms have been proven. I couldn't help but vote for this little Southwold Railway beauty, finished in GER blue livery, photograph taken by my Grandfather in 1904 and ( (c) my collection). I've long had a fascination for this railway.

The Information Leaflets are available here on the GERS website; the Trams are covered at the end of the last one listed titled GER Loco Grey, with an earlier one detailing the GER Blue livery (or, strictly speaking, liveries). There's a wealth of information available on the GERS website, well worth joining for that and the quarterly Journals.

Has anyone thought of going further and modifying theirs with seats on the roof, real open top bus/tramcar style, as per a GER proposal of 1907? See Peter Paye's book p222...

Outer flap folds back flat, inner flap lifts up by about 45-60 deg without forcing.

Gresley was building steel-panelled stock whilst CME, first the later lots of Tourist sets, then the Silver Jubilee and Coronation/West Riding Sets, followed by various vestibuled (gangwayed) Twins and matching carriages for GN and GC Section secondary services, and finally non-vestibuled (non-gangwayed) carriages for principally the GE Section, to replace old 6-wheeled stock and because teak had become more expensive. And not forgetting the all-steel Open Thirds and Full Brakes ordered in the late 1920s. Since these were all (save the Tourist and streamlined stock) finished in the simulated teak panelling, it is difficult to distinguish them, hence they are usually overlooked by modellers and manufacturers, although Hornby-Dublo pre-WW2 produced a tinplate Twin contemporaneously with the LNER's.

Gresley tried to get the Superintendents and Passenger Managers to move away from that, for the reasons you mention, as far back as pre-WW1 GN days, and when he wanted to try steel bodies. The Superintendents and Passenger Managers remained firmly of the opinion that passengers preferred compartments and individual doors, even though the NER for example had built some very neat end-door opens, and would not be swayed until well into the 1930s and long after the LMS and GWR.

Crimson and Cream suited them best (we had this conversation at Ely show). Photographs show vary degrees of 'whiteness' for the oval corridor windows opposite the lavatories, some being clear enough to see the handrail through (see below), predominantly opaque->white for the lavatory windows themselves, and white at the catering sections of those cars.

Others have provided chapter and verse but while Sir Charles Newton grew up as an accountant he was also a true railwayman and qualified in a number of aspects of railway operation. The impetus for the future planning of the LNER came from the Chief General Manager's Office in the guise of the Forward Plan, summarised for the public in a 24-page booklet which also referred to the consultation through that office undertaken the previous year on the design and layout for future coaching stock. The engineering design may have been under the CME's office but the concepts were Newton's. There were several drivers for the changes to the design of the coaching stock, including the increased cost of teak but the government's restrictions on uses for steel that mandated the use of teak and oak framing with deal and canvas roofs still; the problems experienced during WW2 of the difficulties of access to, egress from, and movement within crowded carriages that had end doors only and, perhaps most significant, the difficulties of escape in the event of fire that had been evidenced in accidents.

Pedantically, the streamlined B17 announced by Hornby has yet to see the light of day...

In your e-mailed newsletter you list one of the points to be corrected to be 'Colour matching (mainly on the BR Freight Grey, which needs to be a fraction darker in tone)'. I think it's pretty much accepted that 16T minerals were painted varying hues of grey, so some randomness might be more authentic?

Details of the Worsley Works kits for wagons and coaches here: Southwold Railway - Worsley Works Southwold kits in various scales - coaches only in 7mm scale.

And one of the many sources used by Ellis Clark and his CAD designer to accurately portray the roof details on his 7mm scale Thompson coaching stock range, including the PV Diagrams as formed in the Elizabethan set.

But surely that's the whole raison d'etre - who would buy a locomotive without examples of the correct rolling stock for it to pull? Maybe that's why Hattons and Hornby are doing so well with their generic coaching stock in the absence of the real thing, whilst other manufacturers are producing e.g. Stroudley, or Liverpool & Manchester, or Lynton & Barnstaple, or whatever to complement their locomotive models... so we might reasonably hope for GER/GE Section coaching stock other than Tramcars?

Seen as a very small ad in December 2023 Model Rail, for either 16.5 or 21mm gauges. No mention of the accompanying carriages...

Or in a bundle with the Hornby Magazine direct from the publisher (Key Publishing) post free or possibly at Tesco?

You asked 'What, if any, are the differences then between as built and as preserved?' so not confined to the colour. If colour is only what you meant, then you should pose your question more precisely and not waste other folks time in providing you with a complete response - it will not happen again. Apart from the spacing and other details relating to the lettering etc., there is no original livery finish with which to make accurate comparisons; the closest will be to replicate as far as possible the original GER specifications for the paint materials (it had an efficient laboratory) and method of application.