145 Squadron

Jules, There are two further coutersunk phillips screws, one in each bogie well on the chassis. Remove these and the coach should separate into chassis and ends, sides and roof which just pulls off the sides. Where you go from there is up to you..... Regards Tony

John, Not sure; Chris was selling them on the SRG stand at the Southampton exhibition in Eastleigh recently - I think there are two widths, 8' and 8'6 for £2.50 per roof. I would suggest you contact him direct for further details. Certainly saves a lot of time and effort as it is a difficult profile to fabricate. Tony

Mousa model brass sides, 247 Development cast bogies, most of the rest from plasticard. Hardest part was the roof which I eventually made from plasticard over a wood former. I believe you can now get a nice aluminium extrusion from Southern Railway Group now. Tony

Attached a couple of photos of the RF vehicle from the set I have already completed; most lasted in service until about 1965, although latterly as loose composites (the saloon area becoming unclassed). All the underframe details have now been added to the 3 sets under construction except the 3 kitchen cars as they have additional equipment such as propane boxes, refrigeration units and switchgear, it being easier to make as a batch and do them all at the same time. Tony

I have had to put the coach construction on the back burner due to assisting in getting our club layout 'Redbridge' ready for its first exhibition in a semi-complete state over the past couple of months. On the plus side, some rakes of my Bulleid and Mk1 coaches had a good work out over the exhibition weekend. I was particularly pleased that my Bulleid Bournemouth 6 coach set performed very well over the whole weekend, clocking up some real distance on the layout. This set was one of my first forays into coach construction and is now 4 years old. Since the exhibition at the end of January I have managed to progress the 3 sets of Bournemouth stock currently under construction, namely finishing the painting of the loose chairs, making and fitting the tables in the kitchen and restaurant coaches and starting to fabricate the underframe details. If there is interest I will post pictures as the build continues..... Tony

Hi Dan, Using a cocktail stick, cotton buds and meths worked for me when removing the curtains on the Hornby Maunsell restaurant car; did not leave any marks on the glazing so I was able to reuse. Tony

Chris The Southern Pride P38 chairs are very good but I feel they resemble the more modern type of dining chair fitted to BR stock. We used to have a lot of the older SR chairs around the offices where the backs flare in the opposite direction and in my opinion look quite different when viewed through the large Bulleid windows. As I spend quite a bit of time on the interiors anyway I might a well go the whole hog! Tony

Slow progress is being made on the Bulleid Bournemouth coach sets, mainly as I have been diverted to try and make a REP EMU for our club layout. However that has stalled for the moment so today I have made a start on the seats for the RCO and kitchen coaches. I have used Southern Pride seats which were the best I could find to adapt to the 'loose' chairs in these coaches. They do however need quite a bit of modification; cutting off the headrest and arms, then shaping the cushions to a better profile. The only problem is there are 168 of them on the three sets! Managed about 30 today but my fingers are now too sore so will have to do a few each day I think. The basic construction of the sets is now complete, and after fitting these seats with attendant tables, lamps etc I will start on the underframe details. I hope this build is of interest and welcome any comments. Tony

Jack, I presume the lettering is correct for Southern livery but I am not an expert on that period as I model 1960-62. From what I have read these coaches were not used much (if at all) during WWII and as many of them were converted in the early '50's to buffet vehicles of several configurations the whole subject is a minefield. Some coaches also had slightly different roof detail due to variants of cooking facilities. The Hornby Southern liveried model (which was numbered 7869) I repainted I renumbered to S8000S as the Hornby coach was one of the buffet conversions, but without photographic evidence of both sides of the coach for the period you are modelling it is difficult to be sure! The BR liveried restaurant has a slightly different window arrangement and therefore carries different coach numbers (as had been discussed elsewhere on a Hornby thread). As far as I am aware the main use for these restaurants post war was on the WoE and various cross-country services as they were largely displaced from the Waterloo - Bournemouth expresses by the Bulleid 6 car sets. Whatever duty you wish to portray one important feature was that they were invariably paired with an open third coach for 3rd class diners - usually latterly either Maunsell dia 2007 or 2005 (Hornby have just re-released the latter in SR livery I believe). My main source of information came from 'Maunsell's SR Steam Carriage Stock by David Gould from The Oakwood Press (not sure of the current availability). It also includes quite a comprehensive selection on the pre-war dining sets and routes. Also Chris Knowles Thomas of this parish is also very knowledgeable as is Phil (Mallard 60022) above and both have helped me in the past. Hope that helps. Tony

Phil, Very few prototype photos show the revised underframe arrangement on the tavern cars and all the drawings I have seen show the original gas tanks. Below is the best representation I have been able to put together using some photos and equivalent equipment being fitted to Mk1 coaches at that time. Not sure about the first class/restaurant bands on these coaches, but you never know. They look fine models and I could not have made them for what you paid - well done! Tony

Phil I have done this with a couple of Bulleids as an experiment some time ago; the basic Southern Pride kit - chassis, ends roof and perspex sides assembled as normal with Comet etched sides (prepainted and decalled) then glued to the perspex. I prefer to keep the roof separate as it is easier to fit the interior from the top than underneath. The brass fixing bolts hardly show if you pre-treat them with blackening solution. Relying on only the etched sides with perspex backing does not give sufficient strength to the body/end/roof construction in my view (as testified by an couple of models assembled this way which I recently purchased second hand). I did not continue with the prior method as I did not like the prismatic effect of the thick perspex sides, which the etched sides seemed to emphasise. Good luck with your project. Tony

Looking good Dave

The open 2nd coach has now been constructed, along the lines of the previous models, interiors made and detailed and the coaches sprayed (or re-sprayed in the case of the kitchen car). Hopefully the following pictures will demonstrate the finished articles: The last picture demonstrates the comparison to the matt BR green used by Hornby, as well as the effect of the different curtains. I have also removed the (nicely moulded) gas tanks and replaced them with propane boxes. My next project is probably a 6 coach Bournemouth set, using Bill Bedford sides, Hachette donor coaches and Southern Pride and Comet detailing components. A fellow club member is also constructing a set using a slightly different method; if there is interest I am sure we could make a joint thread on the constructions.

Having purchased several ex Southern Pride Bulleid coaches in need of renovation and/or detailing from a well known second hand site which I used them to make up a 7 coach set 80 I have now started my next coach project. Using a voucher from my local model shop my son gave me for my birthday I purchased one of the excellent Hornby Maunsell restaurant coaches. I was surprised to note that the two versions of livery currently released by Hornby actually also represent different diagrams of the Maunsell restaurant first, with slightly different window layouts. The BR version represents the earlier build dia 2651 of which I have already built several examples, but the Southern liveried one is a dia 2656 with the aforementioned different window and ventilator arrangement. The roof and underframe details are the same for both coaches. Needless to say, having brought my treasured purchase home the first thing I have done is to take it to bits! The body came off quite easily being of recent manufacture likewise I was able to carefully ease the window strips out using a scalpel. I am not a fan of the curtains in the Hornby coach, nor the printed internal hand rails, so both have now been removed using meths, cotton buds and cocktail sticks. It is my intention to repaint the coach then pair it with a Kirk sided open 2nd (using a Hornby Maunsell donor) so that hopefully they will match from an external paint perspective. I intend to renumber the RF as S8000S, as according to the published records, 7869 was converted to a buffet coach in the 1950's so not suitable for my early 60's era. One thing I am not certain about is whether this coach was converted to propane as per the mike King drawings - can anyone clarify?

So do Alan Gibson (special order).

I have had years of enjoyment making coaches using Southern Pride components (and CCT transfers) and without these (and other) suppliers I would not be able to complete any of my models. To order by post is no real hassle when you have the website for part numbers and prices and I have always received prompt and courteous service. From my limited experience most of these proprietors are willing to spend a disproportionate amount of time helping modellers in the use of their products for what in the end is probably relatively small remuneration. In my view this hobby would be much poorer without such people - long may they continue. Tony

The long gap in progress was due to not being able to spray outside. So while I waiting for things to improve I worked on some milk tanks and a loco repaint for a fellow club member. I also took the opportunity to add the curtains to the buffet saloon which I previously forgot. I hope you have enjoyed this thread. Tony

I appreciate all of those in this hobby who are prepared to produce and sell kits and parts to support those of us who would like models of prototypes that are not currently produced RTR. At one end of the spectrum you have producers such as Mousa Models whose coach sides I have used, and at the other Rumney Models milk tank ladders, which come with 21 pages of instructions and photos! In both cases I have no connection with the supplier other than as a very satisfied recent customer and have completed models using both approaches. I think as long as long as you have put in sufficient of your own time to understand the prototype, read kit reviews and understand your own limitations any kit is a bonus in avoiding having to scratch build yourself. If not, you can always pay someone else to build it for you or wait for the RTR version (which has happened to me several times). For me the hobby would be both much poorer and less interesting if all the smaller suppliers were to disappear. Tony

Chris Knowles-Thomas was selling LSWR profile roofs in two widths (but can't remember the lengths) on the SRG stand at the Southampton model railway exhibition in January. It may be worth contacting him to see if he can help. Tony

Finally finished the 2 coach Bulleid 'R' set (the one that Bachmann have just announced!) It is for a fellow club member so I have left it with the standard Hornby couplings on which leaves a large gap between the two coaches. I am still working up the courage to tackle the ladders for the milk tanks so have started the Maunsell dia 2007 open 2nd for which I purchased sides from Mousa Models at the same time as the buffet. These coaches were used as additional buffet seating when required and often ran as pairs with either a buffet or restaurant coach. I found it a bit confusing at first as this diagram actually covers two types of body side but the Mousa sides are for the last batch (S1410 -S1450) which lasted quite late as far as Maunsell coaches were concerned (c '63) and often appeared on West of England services according to published sources. Method of construction is similar to the buffet, except I have had to use the full 2 Ex-Kirk sides. The windows on the Kirk sides were opened out to provide the recesses for glazing and the body filed to accept the brass sides with a small amount of filler to form the curve between the sides and the end doors. One difficulty has been that the ventilators are very close to the gutter line which means there is not much material to make a strong joint with the roof. I will be using the 'dragons teeth' method to reinforce the joint by attaching strips of plasticard to the roof with poly glue, allowing to fully set before trying to attach the sides. Another slight problem is that the Mousa sides had a hole etched above the toilet windows where the prototype photos seem to show a double vent bonnet similar to that on the Hornby open 2nd; I filled the hole then made the bonnets from small strips of plasticard. The donor Hornby Maunsell is a corridor 2nd which is not ideal as the toilet tanks and roof furniture are different and it would have been a much easier conversion to use a Hornby Maunsell open 2nd as a donor but they are quite difficult to find (and expensive!) so I have used what I had to hand. Hopefully this one coach that will not be announced in the near future by the major manufacturers! Tony

PhiI; I have sent you a PM re the paint. Swapped the underframe around this morning. Tony

So keen to have it finished I did not notice I had put the underframe on the wrong way round - oops!

It has been some time since I posted on here, mainly waiting for suitable conditions conducive to spraying outside! I eventually managed to do it but resulted in stinking the house out as I brought the coaches inside to dry off - not very popular that day! I also had to redo the roof of the buffet twice as I had rushed filling the holes taking off the old fittings and rainstrip had left. Thank you Phil for the suggestions as to fitting the pipe runs, but in the end they went on without too much bother using ex coupling split pins crimped to the wire. Remaining work was mainly finishing the interior, glazing the body, adding transfers and hand painting the underframe and bogies. One day was consumed painting some more passengers for this coach and the Bulleids - I have also provided the buffet customers with cups of tea and plates of sandwiches (I couldn't manage prototype curls in the latter). As the plans also showed a 'display' at the end of the counter I amused myself this morning by making one up from some plasticard scraps and thin Perspex - it even has some 4mm Mars bars in it, which seems to be attracting the lady with the suitcases interest. The interior fits inside the body and is held at the correct height by 4 corner pads glued inside the body to which the underframe is fixed by 4 small screws which pass through the interior as shown by the small holes in the picture above. the screws then hold the whole assembly rigidly but capable of future dismantling. Unfortunately I cannot do this on the Bulleids as the ends are part of the underframe so they have to be permanently joined. After some fettling I assembled the buffet, painted the ends, commode handles and door knobs - hopefully job done! I have left the Hornby couplings on at the moment but normally use the Keen knuckles which I have adapted to fit in the NEM socket as my standard inter-coach coupling. By the way, the missing door knob on the right hand door is prototypical - it was an emergency exit! the vent to the right of the middle door (which does say 'private' and has a security grille behind it) is a Mk1 toilet ventilator cut down and thinned. I think I now have enough catering vehicles so will be finishing off the Bulleids and will then possibly try something different for a change. I picked up some second hand milk tanks at the Southampton Exhibition the other day and have bought a couple of Rumney Models platform ladder sets to add some variety to a milk tank train I want to model. Thanks to all who gave help and encouragement during these builds - it gave me the confidence to finish them! Tony

I like the nice neat joints you achieved between the Kirk sides and the Hornby donor, 2Many Spams. I see you suffer from the same problem as me in that Hornby (or Bachmann) produce the same coach as you are currently working on! I would have thought it worth finishing it off as it looks as though you have done all the hard jobs? The current coach seems to have consumed an above average amount of hours in construction so far for something that seemed initially to be less complicated than say the tavern restaurant car. This morning I spent an hour or so making up the water tank fillers for the roof, not a job I look forward to; the ones on this coach run in parallel for almost half the length of the coach, with 12 bends in each, and 5 supports! I managed to shape both and fit one before my eyesight and concentration failed. Will try and complete on Sunday and if I am successful will mean the coach is ready to move to the painting stage. I have 2 other coaches and a tender also at this stage but will have to wait until the right external conditions prevail to get the spray cans out. Tony

Not much apparent progress, but quite a few hours expended on preparing the Hornby Maunsell coach side the getting a good fit with the BB/Kirk sides. I have also drilled through for the door and commode handles, added the door hinges and door vents.The sides were attached one at at a time, being careful to ensure no gaps or misalignment between the roof and sides, fixed with superglue and liquid poly then reinforced with thicker poly glue. the end result seems quite robust. The gutter was then added with 10 X 20 thou plastic strip. Inside the coach I have glued some 40 thou corner pieces to take self tapping screws which you can see just to the right of the photo above. The screws go through holes drilled just outside the previous fixing points in the corners of the Hornby underframe, pass through the interior then screw into the corner pieces to hold the whole ensemble firmly together but still removable. Also seen in both pictures are the gas bottle equipment cases (2 each side) and the refrigerator vent ready to fix to the underframe, I have also carefully removed and cut the double battery boxes down to singles as fitted to this coach - they are very nice mouldings. Also not shown in the pictures I have done some work on the coach ends - I had not noticed but this Hornby coach has alarm gear on both ends! having selected which end I wished to retain I shaved the one off the other end, removing the top steps at the same time as per the prototype for my time period. Next job is to complete the seating and tables for the saloon end of the coach. I have been through my stock of Southern Pride seats but cannot find anything suitable for the 2 + 1 arrangement shown on the plans so have ended up by cutting down some SP first class from 3 to 2 cushions and have also had to shorten same considerably to fit. More bits of plastic all over the workbench! I am looking forward to having an example of this coach to run but it has not been the simplest build to date. I would be very interested to see anyone else's completed model of this diagram? Tony