145 Squadron

Thanks for that Phil; I have Mousa sides on order for the dia 2666 1953 conversion as these coaches would be a stretch too far as Kirk side conversions! The only Mousa coach sides I have tried before was for a SECR '100 seater' with which I was very impressed. Any tips on how to do the inset doors would be gratefully received. Tony

As Clive says, Precision Paints are producing the Ex Kirk southern coach kits, but in addition they now market the coach sides as separate items which, as apart from the Hornby Maunsell coach, are the only major components I have used. Thank you all for your kind comments; I will try to give a stage by stage commentary so that others may hopefully avoid some of my mistakes and wasted time and effort. The donor coach is a Hornby Maunsell corridor second - you could use other types as the sides are going in the bin anyway, but this coach has the correct end details and pipes for the kitchen/buffet so that is one less job to do! The only other parts required are plasticard of various thicknesses, roof vents, screws, paint and glue. Having stripped the Hornby coach to its basic components the Hornby roof vents and toilet tanks need to be removed, filled and filed smooth. Using suitable references (Mike King drawings and Gould's Maunsell SR Steam Carriage Stock are good sources) six of the windows in the Ex Kirk sides need to be filled flush. I did this by cutting plasticard blanks and glueing inside the coach sides, then when dry using a second layer of thinner plasticard to fill the window recess from the outside. Small discrepancies in the outside finish will match the prototype! Remove the stepboards from the coach chassis and bogies, and fill the resulting holes. Cut the sides from the Hornby coach (deep breath required!) I find the best method is to run a sharp knife along the side below the roof gutter - do not try to do this one go, but repeatedly run the knife until you have a fairly deep groove, but not right through. Then using a razor saw, cut up from the ends (as close to the end of the sides as you dare) until you reach the gutter line. Then, very gently, and with more knife strokes gently ease the sides inwards and you should find the sides should break away along the gutter line you have scored; do not rush this process. You should then be left with the kit of parts as per the picture below. More to follow.....

Having been a relatively silent member on this website for 6 years I am taking the plunge in attempting to describe my process to produce a layout model of a dia 2659 Maunsell Kitchen/Buffet coach (as rebuilt in 1947) in OO gauge. I have produced several Bulleid and Maunsell coaches for my layout, mainly using brass sides from Comet (now Wizard), 247 developments (now sadly no longer apparently available) and Mousa Models as well as Kirk and Southern Pride plastic sides. From the above sources I have produced several BR SR catering coaches as running in the early '60's; the one in this description is based on the recently re-introduced Ex-Kirk Maunsell restaurant/kitchen 1st with a Hornby Maunsell corridor second as the donor vehicle. For illustration the attached pictures show a previous conversion, based on using the full Kirk kit and Ratio bogies. The new coach is being built for a friend's layout.

Phil, I used the Hachette Mk1 as they were similar to the Mainline Mk1, but quite a bit cheaper! I file off all the raised surface detail then add a strip of 5 thou plasticard at waist level as the Bulleid sides have a more rounded side profile. The brass sides are fixed onto the donor sides with Evo Stick which is great fun as it melts the plastic coach side - I have never had one come off yet! The paint is from a local auto factor who made it up from a swatch I made from Precision Paint BR SR coach green (which I can then use to touch up). It costs a bit more than a Halfords can (£12 last time if I remember correctly) but I can specify what type of finish I require and a 400ml can will do about 6 coaches worth and they don't clog like some others. Unfortunately I am useless with an airbrush - no patience! Like you I am just finishing off some Bulleids I started last November - I tried to do too many at once, got fed up and did some other modelling for a while but am now trying to get them finished before Christmas. No doubt Hornby will then announce they are producing a super-detailed version! This happened with my M7's. Look forward to seeing the result of your efforts. Tony

Sorry about that; hopefully this is the right one! From the pictures I managed to find the underframes were very similar after conversion to propane (perhaps not surprisingly). Like you I had initially made up a long gas tank, then had to change it when I realised it didn't fit with my running period. I have two Tavern Car sets as well as the Bournemouth set (which were 247 Developments sides, sadly no longer available). Propane boxes and other undergubbins are butchered from spares and plasticard using the photos. Sides on the Tavern Car are Comet modified as we had previously discussed, with a Mk1 shell and Bachmann bogies. Interiors are scratch built from plasticard - the restaurant trailer is a nightmare as it is nearly all windows. Love the progress on the layout - keep it up! Tony

Any use? Gleaned from pictures found on the internet (source unknown). Tony

In case anyone is still looking for one of the SE &CR models (R3538) AC Models in Eastleigh (usual disclaimer) still had 3 left on the shelf at midday today. Tony

Or the Hachette coaches if you can still find them. Tony

Richard The two brass strips that sit at an angle on the loco drawbar can get bent such that one or both touch the centre post on the tender - as they are wired for opposite polarity pickup you get a dead short when coupling up any tender with this arrangement. the cure is to carefully bend the brass contacts away from the drawbar centreline. Do it a bit at a time to ensure you dont break them. Good luck Tony

Here is a buffet conversion f the Kirk restaurant 1st I made some time ago. Have made several sets of Bulleid 'shortie' coaches using cheap Hornby Maunsels as donors which looked OK. The rebated window sections were very helpful in getting a flush glazed look. Tony

Phil Making great progress with the buffet coach - wish I had your soldering skills! Not sure what period your are modelling the coach but just to note that the long underfloor gas cylinder was replaced with propane gas bottle boxes around the late 50's/early 60's. Don't have any photos to publish but a trawl of the internet may help. Guess who only found out having made the cylinder first! Info on coach underframes seems to be very difficult to obtain, especially for restaurant/kitchen cars which frequently changed over time. A lot of pictures are in the platform or the underframe is in shadow.... grrr! Regards Tony

Phil Door grabs are either MJT BR type or Southern Pride, whichever fit better! I put them on after the sides have been painted and touch in the bases so they don't stand out so much (and you cant see the glue!) What do you intend for the seats? I have completed three Tavern Car sets using the Hatchette coaches as a base (Bachmann Mk1's would be as good, but much more expensive) as I too found the Bachmann Bulleids a bit on the short side. One advantage of both the former is that they have the close coupling mechanism which means you can get the coach rake closely coupled on the straights whilst still being able to negotiate train set curves. To my mind fixed hooks and bars with the coaches a scale 20' apart and gaps between the corridor connections spoils all the hard work on the rest of the coach. I look forward to watching the rest of the build - good luck.

Phil, I believe the extended coach sides are actually slightly deeper over about half the length of the buffet coach - this is shown in the MRC plans book, but not represented on the Comet sides. I used scrap brass and solder to fill. You are making a much more solid job of yours than mine - can't solder big bits of brass to save my life! Keep up the good work. Tony

Gordon, I have found my spare block if you are still interested PM me and I will send it to you. Tony

Gordon Can't seem to lay my hands on the spare chassis I know I have somewhere.....! The block is not a separate part on the Hornby service sheet, and I have checked all my spare wheel sets and none of them have the block included unfortunately as they are meant for the later unsprung chassis. I think your best bet might be to have a word with Peters Spares (no connection). Alternatively you could try and get a cheap second hand chassis or loco at a swapmeet, making sure it is the sprung variety. I will keep looking but sorry I can't help at the moment. Tony

Gordon Attached picture of an early Hornby Merchant Navy The block has a spigot that sits on the spring and then locates in the runners in the Mazak chassis - sometimes the plastic block jams in the chassis, but in you case it sounds as though it is missing completely! I will look to see if I have a spare if that helps. Tony

Hello Phil, I wondered if you had any more information on the BRSR cafeteria conversion as I would like to make one too? I have followed your thread so far, but cannot find any published drawings or measurements for the roof, interior and underframe. Any assistance would be gratefully received and acknowledged. Thanks Tony

Looking at toboldlygo's excellent pictures of the tender one water filler is facing one way, the other seems reversed - is this correct? If not, which way should they face? Thanks Tony

Thank you for your kind comments, Phil; nice to see some fellow Southern Region modellers! The layout is really just a test track round my Railway Room, as my primary interest is building loco's and coaches. it is 'OO' looped figure of 8 double track 16' X 8' with 1 in 100 ruling grade to test the stock. The only problem is the coaches which tend to trundle into the tunnel when I not looking! Most of my stock is Southern Region circa 1962, with my current projects mainly Bulleid coaches as there is nothing on the market suitable for my loco's to pull! I have attached a few more photos of the conversion process from a Hornby series 2 to series 1 tender which I hope you will find useful. I found if you marked in pencil a line round the back op the tender, having cut out the centre, you could carefully file down to the new, lower depth of the sides without damaging the factory paintwork on the sides, Other main modifications to the tender were opening out the top of the coal space (needed on all Hornby MN tenders as it is too narrow), reshaping the front cab overhang and shortening the ladders to suit the new rear platform. I also attach a picture of 35008 with the rebodied self-weighing tender; this was my most dificult conversion, using an extended spare Wrenn tender body on a Hornby series 3 tender. I have also modelled most of the other major variations of MN tender, mainly using the Albert Goodall (now RT Models I believe) drawings which he took from actual tenders. I have one more to 'convert' which is Belgian Marine, but thankfully this has the standard Hornby series 2 tender, then I think I will have enough! Hope this is helpful to you; I look forward to seeing your results in due course. Tony

I have converted 4 of the Hornby series 2 tenders to series 1; it is not too difficult as it mainly involves cutting bits off the series 2 tender as the series 1 was lower at the back and the bunker is shorter. I managed to keep the original paintwork and lining on the sides so that they were a match for the Hornby loco. The only additional bits you need are a set of Vacuum cylinders (RT Models) and cover (ditto or scrap brass or plasticard). The chassis does not need any modification, and by reusing the body fixing point on the top I have kept the original fixing screws.

Here are a couple of shots of a rake of class A and B Esso tanks constructed from Airfix/Dapol kits with metal buffers, RT etch ladders and walkways and CCT transfers. The class A tanks were modified as per Geoff Kent's excellent 'The 4mm Wagon part two' book

Reinforcing plates between tank body and chassis supports are not on the Airfix model (note 2 sizes) - easily added from 5 thou plasticard.