ThaneofFife

S*at the bed! That bridge is bloomin superb. I think you appreciate whats gone into it even more so with that 1p coin next to it. You should be good at MB Games' Operation game - "you need a very steady hand"

True but unfortunately the forum will never be the oasis of positives you are looking for. You need to take the negatives too and on this occasion I dont think any of the criticisms are unfounded - its clearly helping some people get otherwise static displays and turn them into a model that actually moves.

Hmmm. We know from the BRM video that the loco can shoot off pretty quickly from a standing start and a number of people have suggested tweaking the CVs AFTERWARDS. I wonder if when you remove the loco from the box and try it on DCC and if its not good then immediately look at the existing CV values and consider changing the them - maybe that could clear this whole thing up and the 8 x pick ups are adequate afterall? Is the loco being sent from the factory with simply poor CV settings and its causing motor to act up?

Is it me or do I sense dare I say it some pigheadedness going on here or maybe I am missing something really highly important? This familiar tamberine seems to be constantly being banged right throughout the thread and I cant see its relevance here. Talk about complaining about 00 gauge track yet no complaints about 4mm scale models just seems to be unnecessarily muddying the waters for muddying the waters sake. I dont believe anybody interested in this thread will have rolling stock in any other scale other than 4mm so to keep asking why people moan about track but not rolling stock is a complete non starter with this audience. Nothing can be done about the scale of the rolling stock - why should it - we arent to going to keep the 16.5mm gauge track and then harang all the manufacturers into producing a whole new range of models in a scale that suits the propertions of the track so its all rather pie in the sky and pointless. Lets keep this plain and perfectly simple - its about trying to run 4mm scale models on a narrower gauge track that we want to try and make look more like it is also 4mm scale - modellers will only ever achieve this accurate look by moving to EM or P4 and we all know that and what that involves. The aim is to have a system that to the eye gets track looking proportionally better - I cant really see that 4mm scale rolling stock ever has or ever will look so obviously overscale for the track if the proportions of that track are carefully thought through to fool the eye and by and large it is a close match for the stock. The eye doesnt really notice the narrower wheelsets of 00 on diesels/electrics so maybe a tad of an issue maybe for front wheelsets on steam but as I dont model steam maybe those that do could shove in their two pence worth on this. Are you bothered about a narrow front wheelset provided that your track looks far better and in better proportion? The comment about as soon as you run 4mm stock on 00 gauge track it looks wrong is something I dont agree on. Yes I can kind of see that with existing peco track but this topic is not about what we have now. Its about what we would like in the future - surely then the 4mm stock would no longer look "wrong"? I dont know this is clearly a frustrating topic as evidenced by the slower rate at which the pages are being added now........maybe people are becoming weary of hearing the same messages and road to nowhere arguments. On a more positive note I think the trackwork by Tony above looks superb.

Yeah a good video. Too quick off the mark pulling away from the station but impressive haulage capacity. im sure like the Class 20 sound models the shrill of these will lose its novelty value quite quickly. I always got a headache hearing my Class 20s whistling away. i remember walking up to depots in the 80s hearing that familiar class 40 shrill and think great hopefully another "cop" in the book but i always glad to walk away afterwards to get away from the noise of them.

Maybe the lights are on the same sort of pcb n the back of the noses with the same contacts regardless of version like the 37s. Lets see more pics then as these are unboxed. Weve been waiting long enough and spouting off about the delays long enough now..... Whats the sound version like too?

What I find intetesting is that Hornby were sniffing around this.i wonder if the wheelbase and bogie centres already matched an existing model such as their class 67? Might have been easy to lop an 68 body onto a modified 67 or whatevers chassis. At least we know Hornby are or were fishing to bring out a brand new modern loco.maybe now they will retool one of their own old models instead......

I never clocked the incorrect position for the ic125 brandings.... Can somebody tell me this.is the glazing on the inside smooth across the full length of the large windows.thinking maybe remove the roof and glue in some tint film.

Yeah think I might go for that then. You cant even get second hand mk3s on ebay for anywhere near £12

can of worms opened. You can easily be distracted into other areas (good as they sound)

Reason i asked was that Rails of Sheffield are now discounting the exec liv Mk3s with buffers for £12 each due to the branding error which to me sounds like a really good deal if i can easily tweak them to just "Inter-City" for loco haulage (so need to lift the "125" numbers) and remove the CDL lights as I would model circa 1985. also on the 1st class coaches the 1 should be on the doors - presumably these can be purchased from Fox? just unsure how well the printed letters and numbers are fixed. has anybody tried to lift Dapol printing with the sticky side of cellotape? Im not overly concerned about the smaller coach numbers being correct or not. is it worth giving them a miss and just paying more for the correct type to come along or is it rather straight forward to tweak them and thus grab a bargain. I can get a full rake of 3 x FOs and 5 x SOs for less than £100 I suspect too that it will be some time now before another batch of "correct" exec mk3s for loco haulage come along pre-swallow.........you cant even pre-order any. i guess its because the slot for production has long gone now. What would you do? Is the glossy patch under the "125" going to be unavoidable and I presume the CDL mouldings will appear on every single Dapol Mk3 so that would need to be physically trimmed off and painted over, yes?

When did those central door lock lights appear on the exec livery mk3s? Loco hauled that is. Also the blue/greys......did they ever have these lights?

I must have missed this intro. So Peco have improved the code 75 concrete flexi - I wasnt aware of this. Does anybody have any pics they could load up of the old concrete flexi track next to this new improved flexi? Be good to see what Peco have done - have they just spaced out the sleepers slightly or have the sleeper sizes been revised too?

i'm more bouyed by Pecos response to Mr Sharps than I ever was before and think they could be the boys if we push!

the longer i stare at that track plan the more i think its a brilliant little package- at first questioning why it contained some extra turnouts that on the face of it were superfluous - but no, i can see how it all works now. the flow is nice being on the curve and operationally i think you could have some really good playtime with that (presumably you would throw in another crossover (trailing) on the twin track mainline "off the page" on the right hand side to complete the plan nicely and allow trains to access every platform on arrival and vice versa. also seems you can loco release from every platform and still have one train arriving or departing without conflict and not a headshunt in sight! would fit nicely as a sort of glasgow queen street type layout with the rest of the platforms all hidden beyond an overbridge or station canopy. i really do like it and I too will keep a copy of it it could work for any country or era not just Paris, France

Maybe Pecos view is that O is seen as a growing market and 00 isnt hence the leap? I think a medium 0 gauge point (finescale bullhead) is around £40 discounted at Hattons so id say about £46 rrp.

BH or FB? Fight !

i am surprised by the non-standard PECO reply and its speed of reply is even more surprising - maybe they have fettled their PR system since I last wrote to them but its not a bad reply being fair. Better than I would have originally expected on past experience. at least they are not blind to the feeling thats building for the need for better OO track......

Still restrained I suspect by the fact that even if you had a limited runs of 500 or 1,000 the tooling costs will still be the same as if you went for 10,000 or 100,000 (subject to any wear rates). Good, as long as it stays that way (coloured rails that require the tops rubbing off). It was more point of keeping it out of picture which helps narrow things a down by a factor of one.

I think a product that once removed from the box has to have the tops of the rails rubbed cleaned should be avoided here. Too many variables of people complaining of stuttering or stalling locos as everyone has their own view as to how much they should clean off the tops. I reckon it should either have the coating and not require rubbing or simply not have a coating full stop but not halfway house. If it saves a not unreasonable sum of money to not have rust coloured rails and we stick to nickel silver then fine. I can add that myself and I think most of those that would be in the market for this product would also be happy to do the same afterall it will need weathering and ballasting as well anyway. Many layouts have small scenic sections but with larger fiddle yard areas so the coloured rails would be lost on those non-scenic areas. Tilligs dark colour is OK but i would suggest that most rail you see in dry conditions in the UK is a mix of light,mid and dark browns to reddy browns for new or long abandoned lines. The dark blackened colour used by Tillig would mainly be prototypical only after a drop of rain Also many layouts are only visible from one side and maybe like me you only paint the sides of the track that you can see from that one side and not bother painting the backside of the rails that are unseen? If however the saving would only be 50p maybe a pound or so, then it might not be worth deleting it but I come back to the rail top issue. I believe Tillig is plug and play no rubbing needed which might be an added compromise if we want it. I am worried that a few people think we might get large radius turnouts to the standards we desire for circa £25 - no facts or science behind this but based on whats around at the moment my gut feeling is that you would be looking at a minimum of say £30-35 from a new manufacturer. I still think an approach to Tillig would be worth it. I have my views on Peco but have no experience of Tillig and their range of pointwork does at least seem to offer more flowing trackwork using larger radii than the peco stuff. I wonder if now would be a good time for a sit rep (maybe others would find it helpful too) as I am now all a bit lost in the net results so far our 35 pages......

105 is how i rememeber the peaks best. non of ya high intensity headlight malarky........

Tony you do yourself absolutely no favours at all ending your reply by suggesting you need to fetch a tin hat - it smacks of being intentionally provocative and I dont think youve brought anything helpful to this discussion what-so-ever. I feel a taxi would be far more appropriate. You allege that some of the "people" (here) dont want to do it (model their own points that is) yet you admit to not being bothered to read the whole of this thread - thats a laughable contradiction. Do as I say, not as I do, eh? The thread is pock marked with too many of these types of responses which in turn leads to the offending posters resorting to some over thought back-pedalling. On the history of these 33 odd pages, I am now just waiting for some subversive out there to come on and blatantly just crack on and say that those who would like to see high standard RTL trackwork in 00 where we can remove it from the box and run trains is for layabouts, ner-do-wells, good for nothings, lazy slobs next.......honestly will those that have nothing but veiled bile to dish out just go away. I also cannot see the lessons we should learn from you when you suggest that somebody who makes their own points lays them, ballasts and weathers them has achieved more than somebody that lays a point from the box ballasts and weathers - its the bleedin' obvious that MORE has been achieved but you are implying that that of itself takes away all modelling credibility of the man that chose to buy his turnout and lay from the box. Just comes across as dare I say it snobbish. I will avoid using the "E" word. Are you "encouraging" (cough, cough) us to make our own points in order than we can then call ourselves modellers and if we dont then we are the pariahs or lepars of the hobby? I am sure Frank, Peter et al would have had more than enough self control to keep any of those less than savoury perceptions of us at bay and respect the requirements of those that have brought the more useful contributions and comments to this thread. It is very sad to keep seeing comments like the last post but alas its a relatively free arena to speak up and I dare say such comments will not be the last despite my plea. I guess its too big an ask for some to resist.

A small fraction of the, so far, 33 pages may have touched on the consumers aspect of the topic (when trying to arrive at some figures for buyers) but the wrong opinion will be shaped saying it is the topic when it patently isnt. It is just that, one aspect of many.

With a fair few people banding there own figures around, nobody has yet broken any of them down into sub-categories because of course you cant design and sell a universal turnout expecting it to meet every modellers specific needs (please, lets not hear anymore about the benefits of scratchbuilding as some king of reply as weve heard it all ad nauseum). What would you start off with? Whats the most popular era and region of layout from which you could possibly arrive at a concensus of opinion that the first new turnout should have xyz chairs, xyz rail height, bullhead or FB, should it be a B6, B8 etc.??? I am not even sure if some regions or branches had bespoke sleeper sizes or spacings etc to add to the mix. I dare any successful new range of bullhead must all be the same and thus some modellers will need to accept it and compromise. Same goes for flat bottom although I have a feeling the number of variations of FB chairs is rather less than with BH but the same principle would apply - you would have to settle for a single style of FB track. Where does one start?

i wonder if anybody could glean anything from the chap (maybe if you know him even better) that got FiNetrax off the ground with his lovely n gauge turnouts? Arent we looking along similar lines so apart from the obvious size difference it might be a good barometer regarding costs of tooling up/getting the ball rolling. Let me be right up front BTW - I like the discussions aim for better track but I wont be in any position to make an investment. Many people may contribute to the thread and just as many may be in a similar boat to myself that doesnt enable them to put their money where their mouth is but hopefully that doesnt continue to cloud the judgement of those that are forever implying that something like this wont fly or would lack paying customers/investors. With the bottom of the RTR loco barrel getting drier by the year wiith most diesels now ticked off (for starters with still one or two areas that could be gaps to fill) surely better track is the next move by somebody out there?