Bill Jamieson

The Manchester to Aberdeen newspapers was booked over the WR very early on a Sunday morning but was a class 1 working, while the train depicted is displaying a class 3 headcode. There is clearly no need in this case for the assistance of a brake tender but if the loco was a 'foreigner' borrowed by Kingmoor (say) to plug a gap, it would presumably haul the tender around regardless of whether it was needed so that it also got back eventually to its home depot. Bill PS My original purpose in accessing this thread was to post this image which almost certainly has never been seen before - https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/78/282/

My set of books has just been delivered - about to go out so opening the parcel will have to wait until later in the day! Bill

The MNA Books website has now been updated:- We have books! We are delighted to announce that our consignment of Never Again – Encore three-volume box sets has arrived at our distribution centre in Wolverhampton. We are now carrying out a quality check to ensure that the product meets the exacting technical standards that our customers expect and deserve. We have books – update! The sets we have examined so far are of outstanding quality, so we are planning to start distribution on 13th Sept. We will be using Parcelforce, as before. It will take a little time for us to pack, label and despatch the large number of advance orders we have received, so please be patient!

I was in touch with Bob Clarke at the weekend and he told me that delivery of the books (I presume from Poland) was expected in a few days, with distribution following immediately if the printing was up to scratch. It's odd that the website hasn't been updated yet but perhaps the delivery has been delayed slightly. Bill

I've just discovered another piece of this jigsaw. An old edition of Steam Days magazine has a 1962 shot of the 11.35 am Hellifield to Carlisle stopping train approaching Armathwaite with six milk tanks at the rear, stated to have been attached at Appleby. Bill

Thanks Andy, glad to hear that. Here's another shot that wasn't used in the article - At just after 07:00 on Friday 17 July 1981, 76012 and 76 007 have just left the exchange sidings at Wombwell Main Junction and are about to buffer up to a Fiddlers Ferry bound MGR train which had already arrived and was awaiting banking assistance up the Worsbrough incline. I was unable to identify the train locos at the time but from photos taken elsewhere the same day and published on the web, I am almost certain that they are 76 032 and 76034. Beyond them is Swaite Viaduct, built to carry the Midland Railway’s Chapeltown Branch Extension to Barnsley (1898) over the Wath to Penistone line, River Dove and Dearne & Dove Canal..

That seems a reasonable supposition. I've zoomed in on the original picture file but that doesn't suggest any other reason. Bill

For anyone who is interested I have an illustrated article in the current issue of TRACTION magazine, mainly using photographs I took on Friday 17th July 1981. Information gleaned from this thread was very useful in preparing the article and has been duly acknowledged. Attached is one of the shots not used - the caption would have read "On the afternoon of the second-last full day of operation, Thursday 16 July 1981, what is thought to be 6M31, the 16:30 Barnsley Junction to Fiddlers Ferry MGR working, comes uphill through the deep cutting on the south side of the grounds of Bullhouse Hall behind Nos. 76 032 and 76 034. The rear of the train beyond the bridge will still be passing the once rail-served but now derelict Bullhouse Colliery, which had closed in around 1957". Bill

I've recently seen an undated (but late '50s on) photo of a northbound class C / 3 train at Dillicar troughs with nine 6-wheel milk tanks at the front (the rest of the train is composed of parcels vans). The photo will be used by a friend in a forthcoming book so I can't post it here. Regarding the recent post from Karhedron, I would have thought the 1965 sighting at Appleby was of an out and back trip working from Carlisle - how far south would that have gone? - Kirkby Stephen perhaps? Bill PS A photo in Peter J Robinson's 1977 album 'West Coast Border Steam' has the following caption:- "'Duchess' 4-6-2 N0. 46228 Duchess of Rutland forges through Wreay cutting with the Sunday afternoon milk express train from Carlisle to Mitre Bridge, London in May 1964. This train picked up tanks from Appleby and Aspatria at Carlisle then ran non-stop at express speeds to Milnthorpe, where further talks were picked up. After that it only stopped at Crewe for crew changing". Another photograph taken in September 1966 states that ".... the Carlisle to Willesden perishable freight then carried the small number of milk tanks which previously ran as a separate train".

In 'LMS Engine Sheds Volume 4', Hawkins and Reeve list 7287, 7322 and 7323 as being on the allocation in 1945 so it looks as if they were long term residents. From BR Database 47675 was also on the books from late 1957 until late 1966. Bill

Orders now being taken for Never Again - Encore at https://www.mnabooks.com Three volume set £105 plus £15 p&p Bill

The MNA website has been updated very recently and now states that "Full details of how to order will appear on this website from 27th May 2021". Bill

Many thanks for that, I have duly registered interest. Bill

Could you supply a link please? I've tried this - https://www.mnabooks.com - but all that appears is 'Never Again Publishing Ltd' and an email address. Bill

The Down train passing Dunford Bridge at 16:45 was 6M31 16:30 Barnsley Junction - Fiddlers Ferry which I photographed departing from Barnsley Jn. I also photographed the two Down light engine movements (at Ecklands) but with it clouding over by then, I gave up shortly afterwards and drove home to Mirfield. Given that the next train to pass while it was still light (6E85) would have entailed a two hour wait, I think I made the correct decision, especially having photographed 6E85 in quite dramatic lighting at Dunford Bridge the previous evening - there seemed to be no chance of repeating that. Bill

Immediately prior to my early September 2020 post I had been in contact with the MNA (regarding some errors in the 'Never Again' captions) and was informed then that another four volumes (probably) were in preparation. however as it wasn't yet in the public domain I refrained from copying in what I was told. Given that it's now out in the open, and for the benefit of those who don't (like myself) see Steam Railway mag., here's the information I received. Obviously I have no idea whether this accords with what has just been published in SR. Bill As regards ‘The Book’ in preparation, it is likely to be another Four volumes…..as we have so much quality material. We shall use exactly the same format as NA – TCW in terms of size, each volume around 240 pages, 11” x 11”, but probably not presented as a box set.(in my reply I said that I hoped they would reconsider this as the slip case was a really nice feature of the Never Again set) We are aiming to go to print early – mid 2021. I guess it was inevitable as there was so much really good material that we did not use first time around and in the intervening couple of years so much more has come to light, scanned and unearthed from MNA collections. The scope will be much wider in terms of geography and routes so more of the earlier stuff from the late 50’s and early 60’s, essentially preceeding the MNA years. The books will contain less text than in NA-TCW, so very much more strengthening the pictorial aspect, both colour and B&W with expanded captions to support each picture and provide supporting context where necessary. We have now very close to finalising the picture selections for each of the 100+ sub-sections. I have already done the draft layouts for around 400 pages and I’m sure you will be please to know that ‘The Waverley’ runs to 52 pages.

Why limit yourself to passenger stock? - looking through 1974 issues of David Thornhill's 'World Steam', I see that even towards the end of steam, Crailsheim 23s still had the odd local freight turn. Of particular note in earlier years was an express freight from Wuerzburg to Heilbronn which took a 23 as pilot - normally the train engine was a class 50 but I'm sure I've seen a photo of double-headed 23s being used. On Thursdays the train conveyed fish in refrigerated wagons giving even more scope for variety. Bill

It looks as if the coverage of the WTTs changed in 1971. Most of the WTTs I have are prior to that year and there was a straightforward passenger/freight split, but from May 1971 it appears that the split was between mandatory and conditional services. The one May 1971 WTT I have is ScR Section E Mandatory Services and includes relatively few freight trains - mostly Freightliners with a few class 4 or 6 company trains. Bill

Re Westfield opencast, I think it was probably developed to supply the coal gasification plant there which opened in June 1961. See https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Westfield_Gas_Works Bill PS I suspect that Kincardine PS would have been supplied by trip/target services working to control orders - these didn't appear in the freight WTT (I presume these were covered by other documents but I never came across one although I did acquire various WTTs in 1970/71).

Westfield opencast site was operational in late steam days but I don't know exactly when mining commenced there.. The WTT shows the Westfield - Longannet services running via Cowdenbeath which entailed a reversal at Redford Junction at the west end of Thornton Yard (presumably the locos ran round there - ten minutes were allowed) but I expect this could be done without blocking any running lines. Bill

Although it's a bit earlier than the period you mention, I have a copy of the summer 1970 freight WTT which shows three return trips SX from Westfield opencast colliery and four from Seafield colliery to Longannet power station. All are noted as 'Suspended' so the MGR operation obviously didn't commence on 4 May 1970 but at some point later in the spring or summer. From Seafield Colliery to Longannet P.S. 04:52 09:12 14:12 19:12 From Longannet P.S. to Seafield Colliery 07:03 11:53 16:41 21:43 From Westfield O.C. to Longannet P.S. 05:19 11:51 17:29 From Longannet P.S. to Westfield O.C. 08:17 14:14 20:40 The workings from Westfield were booked for a pair of class 20s, those from Seafield for 3 x class 20, presumably two at one end and one at the other to facilitate a quick reversal at Charlestown Jn. - five of the eight trains involved did this (three minutes allowed), but the 09:12 from Seafield and the 16:41 from Longannet ran up to Townhill Jn for reversal and a crew or loco change, while the last train of the day, the 21:43 from Longannet, also ran to Townhill for a 40 minute stop ‘to detach’ although it’s not cleat whether this was a loco or wagon(s) for planned/unplanned maintenance. Bill PS The MGR layout at Seafield must have been configured for access to/from the Kinghorn end (it also supplied Cockenzie power station at Prestonpans) hence the need for Longannet trains to run via Inverkeithing East Jn. The Seafield to Cockenzie MGR operation is not anticipated in the 4 May 1970 WTT but was certainly up and running by early October of the same year (with double headed class 26s although I'm fairly sure that by early 1972 triple headed class 20s were also in evidence).

Keep an eye on the MNA Books website - there is something afoot! https://www.mnabooks.com Bill

Thanks Eddie that seems to have solved the puzzle, although I reckon that the individual digits need to be multiplied by 2 and 1 alternately (ie starting with 2 rather than 1) to get the correct check digit. I've tried E202 and also E144 (a Henschel 2-8-2T now preserved) which latterly carried 3 079 144-4 (the 90 94 type and country codes were never carried by CP metre-gauge steam locos to my knowledge). You're quite correct about OeBB locos but it appears that the old and new check digits on DB diesel locos should also be the same - that's something I hadn't appreciated before. Applying the Luhn algorithm to the digits 9280 1 (but multiplying alternately by 2 and 1) gives a sum of 20 which leaves the check digit based on the old 2xx xxx number unchanged. Recent photos of diesel locos on the German Fotocommunity site show the check digit still applied to the front of the loco eg 218 456-2 and 232 690-8. Bill PS The upshot of this is that while I was incorrect in suggesting that the check digit wasn't calculable from the 11 digit UIC number, the reality is that for DB locos and dmu/emu vehicles the check digit is derived from the xxx xxx number and a one off fudge to the four digit class numbers (as reported to the UIC but presumably never used within Germany for day to day purposes) ensures that the whole 11 digit number gives the same check digit as the DB six digit one. I wonder if this applies to other railway administrations using six digit numbers.

That's extremely interesting, but there's nothing equivalent in the 1970/71 Section B WTT of passenger train services and 1971/2 Section E WTT of mandatory train services (the 1968/9 information was supplied by a friend who does have the 1968/9 version of Section E). 5M20 from Perth still seems the best bet at the moment, with the stock possibly worked to Perth on the 16:00 SX Class 4 parcels from Aberdeen Deeside Yard. Bill

Many thanks for that suggestion. Bill