Bill Jamieson

This train, which departed Manchester at 21:27 SO in the 1968/9 WTT, had a slight claim to fame in that it was one of the last trains to traverse the full length of the Waverley Route, on Sunday 5th January 1969. Thereafter it was diverted via Carstairs with a reversal there and another at Waverley. It was still running three years later (and probably into the 1980s) with slight variations of the departure time from Manchester. My query, which I'm hoping keefer can answer with his 1968-9 PTM, is how did the stock return south as there is no obvious working back south from Aberdeen in the ScR Section E WTT. It seems possible that 5M20 11:50 Perth - Carlisle Yard ECS may have been involved - this may have continued further south under the same reporting number after a loco change in Carlisle Yard as I observed a class 50 displaying 5M20 heading south through Carnforth early on the evening of Saturday 9th May 1970. Bill

The UIC numbering system appears to have been applied to locos from 2007. In Germany and Austria (the European countries with which I'm most familiar) the full numbers are only applied to loco body-sides and.the change certainly didn't affect the check digit which is still calculated from the national number only (ie it ignores the type and country codes). In fact in Germany the first digit of the supposedly four digit class number is also ignored and the check digit calculated from the old style three digit class and running numbers using the method I explained earlier eg 185 190-6 (1+1+6+5+2+9+0 = 24-30 = -6). Incidentally this appears to be known as the Luhn algorithm but it certainly doesn't work with the Portuguese metre-gauge locos and I was hoping someone might clarify what method the CP used back in the 1980s. Bill

Curiously there's no 15:30 Aberdeen - Perth shown in the 1968-9 ScR public TT, although it does reappear in the 1969-70 version. I notice from the 1971-2 Section E WTT of mandatory train services that the 01:05 Perth - Aberdeen, the return working for the passenger stock off the 15:30, was a more substantial train (345t timing load) conveying mail. It looks as if it probably took forward vehicles off 1S81, the 20.33 Carlisle - Perth mail, which must have arrived in Perth at about 00:30 (I have the ScR Section B WTT but not Section C covering Garnqueen North Jn to Perth) so can't be exact), but confirmation of this from the PTM would be welcome. Bill PS Checking the 1968-9 public TT I see that 1S81 was advertised for passengers, giving a connection out of a Liverpool - Glasgow express. Arrival time at Perth that year was 00.29.

It might just be a coincidence, but applying the DB way of calculating the check digit works in this case - multiply the digits of the loco number alternately by 1 and 2, sum the resultant digits and subtract from the next multiple of ten above - 3+2+9+4+3+1+4=26: 30-26=4 Bill PS I did a bit of photography of what little steam was left on the Portuguese metre-gauge in the mid 1980s, by which time the locos were carrying computer numbers (and the nice brass chimney-mounted plates had been removed). For example 2-4-6-0T Mallet E202 on the Sabor line carried the number 3 079 202-0, but I've never been able to work out the derivation of the check digit - if anybody out there knows the answer I would be very interested to hear it!

I should perhaps have started a new thread for this extract below from the KRM website. While this is obviously far from new, I don't think the possibility of another book from CTG has been mentioned on this forum previously. In the current circumstances one would hope that David Postle has found the time to beaver away optimising the scans - no doubt we will find out in due course! Bill 'Transition' was officially published on May 19th and was in great demand from the first day, so much so that the complete print run was sold in ten weeks. We are very grateful to those who did buy the book and hope that you have enjoyed browsing through the wonderful photographs that Colin Gifford took of that period. We do not intend to reprint the book. Rather we would like to bring some more of Colin's work into the public arena as there are so many photographs he took which have never been seen and surely deserve a wider audience. We are currently planning a new book with Colin which will hopefully be accompanied by an exhibition of his work here at Kidderminster sometime in the Spring/Summer of 2020. When the plans have taken a bit more shape, more details will be made available, hopefully sometime just after Christmas 2019 depending on progress, of what we are producing and when it is hoped to publish it.

Ian Bell from Hawick kindly let me have the final register on long term loan and as a bit of light(?) relief from decorating our bathroom I've just finished transcribing into a spreadsheet the details of all movements through Hawick from early evening on Monday 23rd December 1968 (the date the new book was started) until the early hours of 6th January 1968, when No. 8606 arrived back from Newcastleton. As a disclaimer, I must say that I did get rather skelly-eyed (as Bruce would put it) at times so there's always the possibility of the odd mistake having crept in but hopefully there's nothing major. Bruce has indicated that he might do a check at some point in the future - if he has nothing better to do! Anyone wishing a copy should send me a message on this forum with their email address. Bill

Given that the LMR and ScR lifted their respective sections independently (working south and north from the regional boundary just south of Riddings Junction), I would have thought this was a Scottish Region jaunt and ventured no further south than the boundary at 84 miles and 1170 yards. Will alert Bruce regarding this thread and hopefully he will be able to shed more light. Bill

The 1968-69 LMR public TT shows an 18:10 Carlisle to Appleby stopping train (arr. 19:08) and I think it most likely that the dmu involved would work back empty to Carlisle (rather than stabling over the Sunday at Appleby to form the 07:30 Down service on the Monday) - on the assumption that the dmu set off back north quite quickly that would be consistent with a 21:30 arrival at Hawick. Bill

Sorry it has taken four years to clarify why 5131 worked the 18:07 Hawick to Edinburgh on 4/1/69 but the explanation only came to me recently when I was redoing my spreadsheet of workings through Hawick over the final weekend (the original got lost when my hard drive packed up a couple of years ago). The first thing to say is that the WR winter timetable for 1968/69 (effective from 30 September) was amended before what is shown in the 6 May 1968 public TT came into force - I don't have a copy of the public amendment but Andrew Boyd does. 1S68 St Pancras - Glasgow was retimed by about an hour earlier requiring 1S65 to be retimed by a similar amount, departing Carlisle at 15:58 rather than 17:00. The dmu worked Hawick to Edinburgh local service shown in the public TT as departing at 18:04 during summer 1968 therefore continued to run with just a slight tweaking of departure time to 18:07. Regarding 5131 on 4th January, on a normal Saturday the loco off the 16:12 from Edinburgh would have returned light engine to Edinburgh, leaving the coaches at Hawick to form the Monday morning 06:58 Down service (worked by the loco off the 03:15 Millerhill to Hawick class 6 freight). With there being no service to run on the Monday, the loco and coaches were utilised to form the 18:07, leaving the dmu which had arrived in Hawick earlier that afternoon as the 12:55 from Edinburgh to form the 08:30 SuO to the capital. That begs the question as to how the dmu for that Sunday morning train usually reached Hawick - I think the explanation is that although the 18:13 Carlisle - Hawick only ran SX, there appears to have been a Saturday evening ecs working from Carlisle (on Saturday 28/12/68 it arrived in Hawick at 21:30) which would have done the normal two Sunday return trips to Edinburgh before working the 06:41 to Carlisle on the Monday morning. With no service to run on Monday 6th January there was no point in sending a unit up from Carlisle on the Saturday evening. One last point, on weekdays the loco which had worked the 16:12 Edinburgh - Hawick returned north with the 19:40 SX class 6 freight to Millerhill (usually much earlier than booked), again leaving the stock at Hawick to form the next day's 06:58 to Edinburgh. Bill

Just for completeness, here are all the 76xx workings through Hawick I can find in the last SB register - a new book was started on the evening of Monday 23rd December 1968. I have made an educated guess at balancing workings where loco numbers were not recorded by the signalman. Bill M 23/12/68 21:15 7606? 4M80 20:10 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard T 24/12/68 01:07 7606 5S09 23:45 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill F 27/12/68 09:30 7606 4Z 07:30 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 12:15 7606 0S Carlisle Yard - Millerhill 18:13 7606? 8M51 16:45 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 22:14 7606 4S46 21:30 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill S 28/12/68 02:32 7605+7606 4M46 01:25 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 06:34 7605+7606 0S41 04:50 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill T 31/12/68 11:23 7605+7607 4M65 09:52 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 12:24 7604 0 Light engine ex Edinburgh (depart back north at 12:43 hauling 8612) 15:31 7605+7607 8S50 13:25 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill

PS Scanning through the last Hawick South SB register for double-headed workings, I noticed that on Tuesday 31st December 1968 No. 7604 worked light from Edinburgh to Hawick arriving there at 12:24. It departed back north at 12:43 hauling presumably-failed Clayton No. 8612, which had replaced classmate No. 8574 the previous Saturday as Hawick pilot (changing the pilot loco on a Saturday seems to have been normal). No. 8612 can't have done very much at Hawick because No. 8583 was sent down from Edinburgh early on Monday morning to replace it, arriving in Hawick at 06:42. The normal changeover happened again on Saturday 4th January with No. 8606 replacing No. 8583. This might seem a bit odd so close to the end but No. 8606 found employment the following week on what the register describes as 'ballast' duties on the line south of Hawick (now in the possession of the Civil Engineer) - presumably the recovery of materials had started. The register entry for Wednesday 8th January states "Ballast entered dead line @ 08:45". Entries for the following Sunday and Monday are more specific with the destination stated as Riddings. To return to No. 7604, I am now 99.9% certain that this Robin Barbour shot on Railscot https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/820/ records the southbound LE working on 31/12/68, and Bruce, who was at Stow with Robin, agrees with me. https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/801/ was taken on the same day and the loco can be identified from the Hawick South register as EE Type 4 No. 262 (note headcode box which is correct for this loco). https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/17/882/ might depict the northbound working of Nos. 7604 and 8612 later the same day but if so the weather has deteriorated significantly from when Robin and Bruce were at Stow. The BR Sulzer Type 2 is facing the same way as in the Stow shot but that's hardly conclusive proof! Bill

Just spotted this - I have a copy of Kenneth Gray's observations from July 1967 to March 1968 (courtesy of Bruce) and can confirm that locos from the D7602-08 batch appeared regularly on Millerhill to Carlisle New Yard freights either singly or in pairs - too numerous to list. From the final Hawick South SB register it looks as if the final double-headed workings were on Tuesday 31st December 1968 when D7605+7607 worked 09:52 Millerhill-Carlisle and 13:25 return, but not all the signalmen recorded loco numbers, so something else could have slipped through unnoticed, although that would only have been possible late evening on Friday 3rd January / early morning on Saturday 4th. Appearances post closure as a through route on trip freight E10 from Millerhill to Hawick included D7608 on 24th March 1969 and D7607 on 4th April 1969 - see David Spaven's 'Border Union Dream' book for a number of photos and an account by Andrew Boyd of the 24th March working. Bill

See also https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/35/679/ - the loco is unidentified but could well be D7616. Bill

My original post was hardly a roaring success, resulting in almost one order! However the book is reviewed in the current edition of Steam Railway magazine, following which I have supplied it to a few more outlets. so if anyone is interested, but loathe to buy something without seeing it, it should be possible to view and buy from the following:- Ian Allan Bookshop (Waterloo) Douglas Blades (Ardrossan) Branchstow Books (Willenhall) Camden Miniature Steam Services (Frome) Ffestiniog / Welsh Highland Shop (Porthmadog) Bill Hudson Transport Books (Matlock) Robert Humm & Co (Stamford) Bob Pearman Books (King Lynn) Titfield Thunderbolt Railway Bookshop (Bath) Tornado Books & Hobbies (Birmingham) Vale of Rheidol Railway Gift Shop (Aberystwyth) John Sutton Books (Redditch) did stock it but were down to their last copy at the September Statfold Barn event, so I assume have none left now. And of course I'm happy to supply direct for £27.50 (including p&p) - contact me by email at sparrowcastle@btinternet.com Bill

Keith Chester's 2008 book 'The Narrow Gauge Railways of Bosnia Hercegovina' (ISBN 91-7266-166-6) and the 2010 sequel 'Bosnia Hercegovina Narrow Gauge Album' (iSBN 978-91-7266-176-9) are the definitive English language works on the Bosnian NG. Both volumes were published by Stenvalls. Bill

On Monday 29th July 1968 Black 5 No. 45110 substituted for Brush Type 4 No. D1855, which had allegedly failed on Lostock Hall shed prior to working the 08:15 Preston - Windermere. The return working was the 11:00 Windermere - Crewe (a class 1 train) which was worked tender-first to Preston. The following day 44894 was called on to rescue a dmu which had failed shortly after departing from Windermere on the 09:00 to Morecambe - it's not clear whether the Black 5 worked through to Morecambe but it appears likely (see pps 97 & 98 of 'Steam - The Grand Finale', a WH Smith/Heritage Railway bookazine published in 2008). Bill

These classifications were superseded in 1969 - see http://www.2d53.co.uk/Headcode/Headcode41.htm but that doesn't negate your point about mixed trains, which continued to be included under class 2. Bill

From the Summer timetable 1990 (the only one I have for the period you're interested in):- Down trains M-F Depart KGX Journey time 06:00 5/15 07:30 4/50 08:00 4/50 09:00 4/41 10:00 4/32 10:30 4/25 (to Aberdeen) 11:00 4/34 11:30 4/46 (to Glasgow Q St) 12:00 4/28 (to Inverness) 13:00 4/38 13:30 4/49 (to Glasgow Q St) 14:00 4/31 (to Aberdeen) 14:30FO 5/02 15:00 4/41 16:00 4/36 (to Aberdeen) 17:00 4/39 18:00 4/49 18:30 5/02 Up trains M-F Dep EDB 06:20 4/40 06:50 5/00 07:30 4/40 08:30 4/40 (from Glasgow Q St) 09:30 4/34 (from Aberdeen) 10:00 4/51 (from Glasgow Q St) 10:30 4/27 (from Inverness) 11:00 4/53 11:30 4/28 12:00 4/53 12:30 4/32 (from Aberdeen) 13:30 4/41 14:00 4/57 14:30 4/41 15:30 4/50 16:30 4/54 (from Aberdeen) 17:30 4/48 18:40 5/04 There's an imbalance between Up and Down trains but this is accounted for by the 07:00 Leeds - Aberdeen. Bill

You've just made my day! Best regards, Bill

No, you were right in the first place - that is the north end of the loops at Grayrigg. Grayrigg signal box was on the Down side to the north of the station site ie about halfway along the loops. Bill

I see that a reprint of 'Never Again' is being undertaken, if anyone missed it first time around. Also , a new colour album entitled 'West Riding Steam' (compiled by Derek Huntriss and featuring the work of the late Gerry Dixon) is now available from Never Again Publishing. https://www.mnabooks.com/westridingsteam/ Bill

British Railways Steam 1968 The Final Chapters is a good entertaining read albeit Steve Leyland's idiosyncratic writing style takes some getting used to! It's profusely illustrated but isn't primarily a photo album and many of the photographs are reproduced quite small. That said, a number of shots are allowed a full page each and I would particularly commend those contributed by Ian Simpson, who deserves to be better known as a railway photographer (he authored a series of articles in Steam World magazine in the lead up to the 40th anniversary of the end of steam, if anyone remembers those). Regarding the rail tour content, this is fairly minimal except at the very end where the events of 4th and 11th August are covered. The number of shots depicting rail tours is in the low 20s, and most of these are concentrated in the last dozen or so pages. I have seen the other book you mention but don't own it, so I really can't comment on that one. Bill

It's a few years since I was last there and if the Nordhausen loco diagram has changed since then that could affect things. My recollection is that it worked through to the Brocken, in which case it would almost certainly be bunker first towards Wernigerode. If it now does Nordhausen - DAH - ET - DAH - Nordhausen it wouldn't matter so much which way it was facing. Bill

One of the top experiences is to stand on an open balcony next to the smokebox of a 2-10-2T blasting uphill but this is only possible with the 10:24 from Nordhausen and 14:08 from Eisfelder Talmühle. Bill

The double-page spread of Doncaster (photograph 26) was. I think. praised by someone for the wealth of interest in it. I was somewhat puzzled from which vantage point it was taken but, after consulting the National Library of Scotland maps website, the only possibility seems to be the top of the water softener adjacent to the lane under the railway at the north-west end of Decoy Sidings - what does anyone else think? OS 25" map of 1939 - https://maps.nls.uk/view/125650246 Incidentally, the layout had obviously changed substantially between 1939 and 1965, the tracks into the ex LNWR/GER shed having been lifted in the interim, but the shed still seems to be standing in 1965 (building with northlight roof at extreme right). The other thing that puzzles me is the wide angle of view which strikes me as being far greater than that of the 75mm lens on a Rolleiflex 6x6 TLR - I suppose the scans of two negatives could have been merged but, if so, the join is undetectable. Bill