letterspider

Yes I think I can solve that - if the consumer is happy with it. You follow the example of car manufacturers who you collaborate with so that you don't for example have the situation where 4 different Class 47's are produced all with some apparent inconsistency. You share a common repository of reference material on colours etc. to avoid situations where different manufacturers' liveries don't match up - this improves quality control and therefore avoids costly and embarrasing livery errors. You share development of a reliable and effective common drive train - so the motor and core chassis is now considerably cheaper. You could also have interesting business opportunities that may work for you and your collaorator. For example the Heljan 86 was not quite the definitve model we wanted. But the chassis is great and the underframe detail too. Why shouldn't Hornby make an updated 86 by ordering the chassis from Heljan and having a go at the body themselves? Both companies could benefit this way. However with current technologies for injection moulding you biggest saving would probably be to consign OO gauge to the history books and replace it with HO gauge. You now open up the possibility of longer production runs of the 87, 86, 66, 68 etc. On the other hand it is probable that when high output 3D printing becomes reliable and as cost effective as it promises to be, the problem of production and development costs due to changes in scale should be therefore drastically reduced for common Classes Where problems arise are in variations in local consumer preferences with regard to things such as brand loyalty - car buyers are happy to pay for example a higher price for a Volkswagon instead of the same car with a Skoda badge on it (damn fine cars by the way). None of this will be new to Hornby - they judged the market place brilliantly in recent years and I expect that all of the above is already happening behind the scenes - with the exception of a move of the entire British market towards HO.

This is simply not the case The most expensive part of the process is design and then cutting metal dies. However all modern locomotives are CAD designed to begin with and 3D printing is capable of bringing down prices of the plastic components. Usually when there is a technological leap, the prices can drop by as much as a factor of £10. However there is no incentive for the manufactures to do this if they can carry on with how they are - I imagine many are struggling to pay off their oriininal capital investment and are not interested in exploring new technologies.

Exactly the way DJM is doing the Class 71 I imagine...?

Didn't Dave say a few posts back that in order to get the project moving forwards to the EP sample he has had to approach the box shifters, to get the critical number of orders together? It is a compromise but then if the project does not move to the next step now it could be a long wait, costs could increase, or it doesn't progress beyond the CAD stage and then none of those orders will be fulfilled. This is a crowdfunded project - so the process is being driven by our deposits and advanced orders!

I agree that I really don't think the engineering is the challenge here - it's the price. How much are you willing to pay for the design and manufacture of this fully functioning, hand assembled pantograph? Chances are that you, the consumer, are going to break it the very moment you take it out the box for the first time anyway. If we want this pantograph to be the way we want it, then we need to put our money where our mouth is and offer to put down deposits up front with Hornby for the 100% perfect Class 87. As I don't see that happening, I will get the cross arm version and assuming the bodywork etc is good, wait it out for the other versions to drop down in price. Meanwhile I will be awaiting the arrival of the DJM Class 92 and the Bachmann 90. The only problem here is that it could be a very long wait for the Bachmann 90 in particular and I don't see the slightest chance of them producing pantograph spares to match demand. Now - considering that Hornby already guessed that I knew they knew that I was going to do that then - is Hornby taking a massive gamble at pricing this loco at around £130 even after the inevitable discounts? It just looks £50 too expensive for what it is.

Funny how we wait years for just one really good AC electric and now they are starting to arrive all out once we run out of money. I really want that Hornby 87 for Christmas but I've ordered two 90's off Dave just to see this project reach fruition!

I agree on the whole except this cannot possibly be destined to be played with by little kiddies - that market is better served by the Limby 87. At over £150 the reality is this is for the discerning modeller (the big kiddies) and I imagine Hornby have priced the model at this price point to remind us. Much in the same way you wouldn't lend your Jaguar to your 17 year old when they can have the Mini (I don't have either BTW!).

Hi Dave considering nearly 3 pages on this website have been written up upon the disappointment of the Class 87 BW pantograph on the new Hornby model and the apparent impossibility to fabricate a reasonable working one in OO gauge anyway, I am wondering if you can share with us your plans for the 92 (unless I have missed this somewhere already)

OHLE catenary wire would have to be made of Nickel / Cobalt / Iron or alloys high in content with those elements for a magnet to stick to it. Steel is not magnetic nor is Copper. Choosing magnets with the correct strength would probably be easier than a spring of the correct tension. Springs lose tension more quickly than Nd magnets lose force. Also less moving parts and more robust. Anyway - I think Hornby engineers have lost interest in this - its probably not going to be cost effective or too delicate. Perhaps our only hopes now are DJModels' crowdfunded Class 92 and in which case I am sure he will make extra BW pans (the design is the same for both classes?) in the hundreds if he can get advanced orders...

Only if you have pre-ordered

Can I suggest that the pan head and the linkage arms utilise two neodymium magnets with same poles facing.They are really powerul and the repulsion would be sufficient to force the pan head against contact wire and you wouldn't need to have a spring?

Hi Dave I'm one of the guilty party - I still have to pay for the deposit on the 2nd loco I ordered.

Hi everyone I have a Bachmann class 08 - thee central pin from the crankshaft has fallen out and I've lost it. I have gone to Bachmann to ask for a spare but the best they could offer was an entire replacement wheelset with crank rods for £14! Does anyone have any idea where I can get a replacement? Thanks!

Thanks for sharing that - it looks really good. How did you produce those bogies?

I bet even fewer could model those bogies...!

If you are after RTC Red - Halfords FIAT Orange Red is a very good match - the very best results are on black or grey primer

Hi Paul this has been a really interesting topic to follow and good luck with your project. I will certainly be keeping an eye out for the kits. I am also interested in just the APT bogies by themselves, as I would like to model RTC Laboratory 1 Ade

If they have genetic pcb's surely they would be constantly evolving

Hopefully they will have learnt from these errors and can now move forward to producing more excellent models.

Saw this MPV OHLE train parked up outside my home for a couple of days and so I've decided to share some close up shots. OHLE is being installed on the Barking - Gospel Oak line. There seems to be remarkably little activity considering the line if being reopened in just a few weeks time. The last shots have been included to show the weird looking cantilever arms that are being installed. I seem to remember reading that there was a recent competition for a new aesthetically pleasing design of OHLE....

Yes that would be obvious, however be warned - the TTS chip really is a very basic and low power output chip. I learned the hard way when I fried a 47 TTS chip which couldn't cope with the current draw of a Heljan 47 motor. My guess is Dave's motors would be of a similar or better quality to Heljan's.

I agree - but look at a Hornby TTS 47 going for £59. What happens when Hornby does a 92 TTS for £60...? answer - they would probably sell like mad

Thanks I have pre-ordered a GBRF livery

Hi Dave until recently, I have followed your blogs over the years and so I was recently surprised to hear of this crowd funding initiative for a 92 (my gauge is OO). I can imagine the dismay when you discovered you would have to take on another manufacturer. I see you have decided against collaboration. but you also would both be in competition at OO gauge with Hornby, and recently DB Schenker models have been priced at the £50 mark - and I am sure have been selling at that price. For myself if I had to choose between two expensive models and considering the recent problems with the 73 from Dapol (another 3rd rail dual personality loco) I would be looking for a manufacturer who would have a comprehensive catalogue of spares, the pantograph in particular I am sure would be always selling out - we just don't get good pantographs in OO and certainly I would be buying loads to upgrade my Hornby 92's and to fit to my self build pantograph coaches and so on. Then spare shells, windscreens always seem to fall out and go missing and if you have a Bachmann model - well it's a nightmare for spare windscreens; etched grilles and the like. Please don't forget to factor in these spares into your business model. I haven't read it yet elsewhere on this thread but perhaps you should poll your readers as to whether they would crowdfund for spares as well - maybe you can get them to be manufactured at a reasonable price if the economies of scale favour it.