letterspider

Hi Dave until recently, I have followed your blogs over the years and so I was recently surprised to hear of this crowd funding initiative for a 92 (my gauge is OO). I can imagine the dismay when you discovered you would have to take on another manufacturer. I see you have decided against collaboration. but you also would both be in competition at OO gauge with Hornby, and recently DB Schenker models have been priced at the £50 mark - and I am sure have been selling at that price. For myself if I had to choose between two expensive models and considering the recent problems with the 73 from Dapol (another 3rd rail dual personality loco) I would be looking for a manufacturer who would have a comprehensive catalogue of spares, the pantograph in particular I am sure would be always selling out - we just don't get good pantographs in OO and certainly I would be buying loads to upgrade my Hornby 92's and to fit to my self build pantograph coaches and so on. Then spare shells, windscreens always seem to fall out and go missing and if you have a Bachmann model - well it's a nightmare for spare windscreens; etched grilles and the like. Please don't forget to factor in these spares into your business model. I haven't read it yet elsewhere on this thread but perhaps you should poll your readers as to whether they would crowdfund for spares as well - maybe you can get them to be manufactured at a reasonable price if the economies of scale favour it.

For those still interested in this model and not up ot the challenge of conversion - just noticed that eHattons are offering this model with DCC fitted for a few pounds shy of £100!

Sorry and sad to hear. Thanks for sharing your excellent modelling.

further to previous posts this is the tally of experiences of RMWebbers with Class 73's as shared on this topic from Jan to May 2016 53 purchases of Class 73's - 35 were faulty / buyers were disatisfied (66%) 26 were subsequently returned (49%) I wonder if and when we will see them in Network Rail livery - I hope those will have the PCB sorted out as I have one on order...

Hi John, if you are referring to my post, those models didn't all go to me by the way (I only had two) I gathered those figures together in rebuff to the accusation by another person/organisation that everyone on RMWeb are a bunch of whingers and also represent a minority of the total purchases of this model, which Dapol say is selling well with few complaints. Perhaps this is one reason why Dapol admits it doesn't follow this thread, because they are misinformed. Everyone is bandying about numbers and the only people who can possibly know for sure are the members on here, who on the contrary I believe represent a larger proportion of the purchasers. So please other members do send in the figures and I will collate them. I wouldn't be surpised right now if larger manufacturers are taking a look at Dapol's repertoire of dies and considering what they might offer to purchase some of them - why not? You'd save a heap on R&D, it would be like stealing candy from a baby. Has anyone actually confirmed that there is even going to be a second batch of BR Blue for example? We may well regret not buying the mis-liveried examples or sending back the ones we were disappointed with due to livery issues or a relatively quick PCB fix because the next time they reappear, (if they reappear) although they may be cheaper, they will also be devoid of the level of detail we see at present. Ade

Is it something to do with Dapol catenary - only you used the words 'buzz' and 'shocking' which I thought was a hint

Tidied up 23rd January - 26th Purchased 32 Returned 21 % Returned 66 Dissatisfied / Faulty 25 % Dissatisfied 78 Will not buy first or subsequent model due to reviews / poor experience 3

Further to my last post 26th January, this is the running total of feedback from RMWebbers so far in the last 3 days. I haven't gone backwards before 26th January - I know many other members have complained. The data assumes all models returned are due to dissatisfaction. Notice that 12% of customers expressed disasstisfaction but kept the model. 23rd January - 26th Purchased 32 Returned 21 % Returned 66 Dissatisfied / Faulty 25 % Dissatisfied 78 Will not buy first or subsequent model due to reviews / poor experience 3

You make it sound like they are 'dodgy' used car salesmen! Your point about the livery is right though, my guess is the Network Rail yellow will be one of the most, if not the most successful livery and they have lost any interest in the first batch.

Hi Bob we don't know either way, which is why I was suggesting the straw poll. Anyway, I am glad you were saved the expense of disappointment and return postage costs. Hopefully there will be future and correct batches...?

Assuming that everyone following this topic (58) has bought a BR Blue loco and a production run of a livery is 500, then just under 12% of the purchases were made from RMWebbers; and the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I'm sorry but the 'average' consumer is simply not going to buy a £120 highly detailed locomotive, essentially for a discerning modeller, when you can buy an entire Hornby trainset for under £100. Dapol are operating in a niche market and as such the range of relationships with their target consumers are very narrow and must be very strong to succeed. The overwhleming response from this forum is that models are not sufficient quality for the price point. We know from Dapol themsleves that the technical reasons are a mistake in the colour combinations chosen and poor quality control. Joel's figures don't add up and I am afraid an analysis of them not only shows poor management and business acumen and a worrying denial to face up to the truth. Companies which push through 'efficiencies' to save money are a feature of modern business. From my own experiences of it, the over-riding factor is that the company maintains consumer confidence, possibly at the same time they are providing a decreasing quality service or product. Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) This is why free forums like this one are vitally important both to the consumer and the manufacturer. On a final note and to get this completely clear once and for all, I am proposing RMWebbers should conduct a straw poll of what number of 73 models they have already bought, how many were returned and their level of satisfaction. To keep it simple we will start off with the Class 73 in BR Blue. I purchased 2 and sent them both back, satisfaction 0/5 (0 is lowest)

Okay so the coaches are being made by your competitor but they are the reason why your locomotive is going to sell like hot cakes; now I would have kept an eye on the livery to make sure there would have been an acceptable match i.e. actually play with the models - doesn't anyone ar Dapol actually play with the models?

I returned my BR Blue to eHattons no problem, mind you I paid for the postage. I exchanged for the GBRf, which I am happy with. The colours are so bright that the lemon yellow warning panels are forgivable. However I had to pay the full price. This is after 8 months on the pre order waiting list. In summary lost £10 on the pre-order price, £4 postage from eHattons to me for the BR Blue, £11 postage to send it back properly insured = £25 I will never buy another Dapol item on pre-order until I see cast iron assurances they are going to get things right and, considering the really poor after sales customer service, that's not going to happen. Considering the perilous nature of the UK and global economy this is not a case of Dapol shooting themselves in the foot so much as lying across the tracks of the busiest mainline, at night, wearing dark clothes.

I don't think that would be the sort of buyer who would be paying over £110 for a model - they would be going for the Hornby/Lima model which has remarkably good detail considering the age of the moulding and is a good deal cheaper. At this sort of price I (hope) I would be purchasing something that sets itself apart in terms of finer and more accurate detail, better running characteristics - all things which also make the model saleable in future on the 2nd hand market if I eventually sell them This model is not ticking enough boxes for this price premium. I had to send back the 73's I pre-ordered and it cost me £11 in postage. Even so I consider myself slightly fortunate the retailer took them back (as it isn't actually their fault). 30 days later and that wouldn't be the case. I am exchanging them for GBRF and Dutch variants only when I hear positive reviews on this thread. Finally customer feedback is absolutely vital for a good business to develop in the right direction. I suspect the only way train manufacturers differ from other businesses is that they don't invest in focus groups before releasing a product. The irony being I am sure that many modellers would probably volunteer their services for free (or perhaps for a discount on the finished product!)

So - what should Dapol be doing to salvage the reputation of this model?

I have been asked not to copy that exact message on to this forum...but in the reply it is mentions the exact mistake in the Pantone system of the (BR blue and yellow) livery applied (which is the one I enquired about) and what should have been ordered instead. I did not enquire about other liveries. You can make of it as you want and I assume they are happy to ride the storm at the moment. Perhaps if the second batch is okay in livery and electronics (and price) and gets to the UK pretty quickly then they can translate the clear frustration of us modellers into sales - I would probably buy one after awaiting positive reviews from members on this forum.

I don't think anyone has had their hands on it yet. The retailers I have looked at, such as eHattons, suggest release sometime this week / next week. It is likely to be bad news again I'm afraid because the same colours appear on this model as BR blue and the colours selected for that model were wrong. How good are you with an airbrush?

I received a straightforward reply from Dapol as to what went wrong, as well as what needs correcting. Full credit to product development for being quick off the mark and forthright about it in response to an email request through their website. I would like to have seen this on this forum, if like me the major part of your hobby is this forum, as you have little time to play with your models. Of course they do need to shift this first batch to recoup money but- what should this loco be reduced to considering a professional respray is about £50? I think the price should go down to £60 right now. They clear the faulty stock, us buyers wait several weeks for them to be resprayed and renumbered, by then we have fallen in love with the model all over again and have the option of the new batch with additional numbers. In the meantime everyone gets cash flow and shelf space. Vote here and I will pass it on to Dapol!

I have figured out what has gone wrong. (Assuming the quality control officer wasn't colour blind) Dapol have let a few livery errors slip through, let's say about 100 examples in each colour scheme. They have corrected the problem but in the meantime the cost to produce the model has soared towards forcing an RRP of £130 to recoup the mistake etc. They are keeping back the other several hundreds of good examples. They have let the bad samples into the UK to satisfy the loss making pre-orders, many of which are now being cancelled. Once the dust has settled, Dapol will announce that a corrected batch is being released and the prices will go even higher (I predict £130 to £135). Everyone will have no choice but to fork out the extra £30 because these correctly liveried locos are not being made available to fulfil pre-orders and because we have all become hooked to the model. The poorly liveried batch will be discounted, much to the pleasure of those collectors skilled at repainting and the displeasure of the eBay carpet baggers who bought multiple models at the pre-order price. Unfortunate for the rest of us who just want to pay good money to buy a good model

Purple is a complimentary shade to yellow. combining the colours should produce a light brown. So I expect a very light weathering of yellowy shades on the body will knock back the purple colour cast and result in brownish weathering effect. The warning panels are the problem as they are clearly lacking in red hues...really not happy I have to experiment with this after paying so much for a correct model. Dapol it is about time you pulled your head out of the sand and talked to us about this problem, whether it can be solved and if you have a correct second batch on the way. We the consumers are here to support you but if you remain tight lipped, it is like sticking your fingers up to everyone.

Looks good, what shades did you use for weathering?

Having just received a blue Class 73, I hate to say that I am disappointed. Correct livery is not a technical challenge - it was achievable in the 1980's. This is NOT a cheap model and all of its magnificent detail (and it is really very lovely fine detail in many places) cannot be enjoyed when you see the glaring mistake that has been made with the livery. The warning panel really is a sort of lemon yellow and the blue is just odd. It makes me realise just how good the LIMA model was for its time - unfortunately I sold one in mint coniditon to pay for this If ony Dapol had sent a LIMA model in blue and yellow and told the manufacture 'paint it in the same colours' I am sure they would have struck gold with this model; as it is the £105 price mark is not going to be sustainable, let alone £119. My model is going back. I don't have the nerve, the will or wherewithal to take an airbrush to something which costs more than the annual road tax on my car, irrespective of repainting it in pristine or weathered condition. I know that I have a choice and don't need to buy this model but I wanted it to succeed and I wanted to support Dapol - however they have no choice but to go back to the drawing board and find out how they could have scored such a massive own goal and I hope they can salvage something from this. However I don't think they can - I fear that their supplier finds their volume of business more of an irritation than not and doesn't take them as seriously as they could. The fact the factory is half way around the world is irrelevant - we have internet, we have colour standardisation charts and you can always send the sample by courier Update: The problem appears to be the type of paint that is being used. The 'lemon effect' is more pronounced under bright white led lighting and it is a slightly wamer yellow (almost acceptable) under fluorescent or warm white leds. I am assuming this is due to fluorescence of the dye in the paint used. There is no problem with my other Bachmann or Hornby models. I feel sorry that Dapol were caught out by this but there it is. I suppose the Heath Robinson solution would be to sell this item with a free packet of incandescent bulbs? -

Just received an email from Hattons We write with regards to the Bachmann Wickham trolley you have on order with us. When you placed the order we did not have an accurate price for this model as we had not been given the RRP information by the manufacturer. However, we have now been informed that the RRP for this model is £79.95. This is quite a large price rise from £40 - it even outdoes commuter rail fare increases!. Hattons do go on to say This means that the Hatton’s price will be £67.96 which is exactly 15% below the RRP. We recognise that this is a higher price than we originally thought but have been keen to stress at all times that the price was estimated price and subject to rise. At an estimate of £1 a gram - it is considerably more than the price of Silver!

Have you started your layout blog yet?

Okay so I will play downstairs instead. Marking out the layout on to the first board experimenting with Hot Glue to hold down the cork underlay. It works really well. The bond is strong in seconds. I am experimenting using Wickes cork tiles. At 3.2mm thick I am hoping the ballast shoulder will look authentic once it is stuck down.