imt

Not quite correct in that the chip in the SB5 is actually the same controller chip as in the PowerCab - so you don't get much more than you had - for example no more macros (256 on the Pro) AND you must re-input your macros into the SB5 since the ones you may have made in the PowerCab are no longer accessible. You are told to use the PowerCab manual as a reference. Nonetheless it all works fine if you understand these little bits which are not always obvious. Your PowerCab remains as CAB2 so there is no problem in using it to control a separate programming track. Your PowerCab PCP will continue to work OK too - just remove the track connections and the wall wart power feed. I ended up replacing my PCP with a UTP with 4 cab bus connectors as I needed the extra connector. My PCP is now neatly built into a programming/test track away from the layout and my PowerCab just plugs between them.

I can see your point. My wife was a senior manager in British Gas when it was sold to "Sid". The prediction then was that safety and maintenance would go to the wall in favour of profits to shareholders. Her response when I asked her about it was that of Mr Urquhart - "You may think that, you may well think that - but I couldn't possibly comment". She and a large number of her colleagues were provided with well padded "redundancy" not long after.

Thanks very much for the detailed thoughts - which is of course what I was after. Presumably I didn't ask the question very well - for which I apologise. I was concerned at the post-hoc cost - however if this REALLY IS the new normal for the summer in the UK we are going to have to look at what needs doing and prioritise the requirements. Thanks again.

I am not trying to start a polemical attack on RailTrack - this is meant to be a sensible question. Looking at the news, once again we have a situation (full details unknown) where signalling centres and signalling has been affected by extreme weather. Given that this is now the new normal, what can/could/should be done to prevent these problems. We DO still get air traffic system failures - but they are rare nowadays. In my day of safety critical systems everything had dual segregated power supplies or batteries or standby generators. Is this a financial problem for the railways or are there practical problems that the uninitiated like me simply don't see or understand?

I didn't ask them, but it may be variations in the accuracy of the equipment/method. I am assuming you have better equipment than mine. I bow to your greater knowledge - though why something which is in the right position needs to powered so as to move I am not clear.

I have reported my findings to DCC Concepts and asked if they are untypical. I don't think it appropriate to print their personal reply, however they have confirmed that my findings are typical, which I summarise as follows: Base load = 0.005 amps per unit. Which is what I found. Switching current = 0.05 amps. For me it was 0.06 amps. Stall current 0.12/0.13 amps for a short period. Which is what I found. The stall current applies whether the unit has a need to move or not. So sending a "reverse" to an already reversed point will see a 0.12/0.13 pulse. Also what I found. Given the crudity of my measuring device I accept that some of my slightly higher measurements are within tolerance So now we all know.

I appreciate that information is good for the general reader, but in my case since I don't do frog switching (or anything else) with the Cobalts it doesn't matter to me.

Well I use them because I have a complex control set up and they are easy to use, and only 2 wires are required (yes those mythical two wires of DCC!) Your post probably cross with my amendment above. It don't make a difference to my Cobalts on my layout (performance is the same spring in spring out).

Yes the springs are still in. I have not had any problems with that until recently. It needs a grunt to "push" past the centre but then the spring helps by joining in the push. I generally don't muck about with my trackwork. [additional] I have just moved a set of jumpers to another Cobalt Digital IP (for those who have been reading all of this - the one which "shorted" and was repaired by DCC-C). It is on a trap point. Thus it is half a point AND this ones spring has been removed. The performance is exactly the same as one with a spring - peaking at 0.13.

I agree with that. Understanding why it is what it is gives me a headache. Can you spot a fallacy in the test? Do your Cobalts have a physical load when you test them? I know of no reason why my Cobalt Digital IPs should be different to anybodyelse's. [additional] The movement current is a list of values I see from the moment of pressing the command button to the return to 0.01. Causing 2 Cobalts to fire at once produces a maximum load of 0.28 for a short time.

Well - I have set up my test rig. It is my (separate from the layout) programming/testing track with a PCP faceplate and PowerCab attached, and two pairs of crocodile clip flying leads to two point motors. NOTHING but NOTHING else is attached and the only load is 2 Cobalt Digital IP point motors. The point motors are still fixed under their baseboard and hence moving the points to which they are attached (have a physical load). Photo of rig attached. The static load is .01 - as expected (two at .005). The switching performance is amazing! Sending a change direction to a single point (say from normal to reverse) results in .06 for some time during which time it moves the point mechanism, .09, .13 until stall, .04, .01 (the numbers vary a bit from time to time by the odd +/- .01). Sending a command to reverse when already reversed results immediately in .13 again for some time (until it stalls again?) and then .01. I would have thought if the point was in the correct alignment that wouldn't happen (i.e. commands would be ignored) - but it does this repeatably. Now I repeat, I am reading the ammeter available on the PowerCab handset - which may not be terribly accurate. I don't have access to a recording oscilloscope so I am writing down what I see. It's all very crude and amateur - but I think the readings are reasonably fair and correct. I have not bothered with firing the 2 Cobalts at the same time yet. Thoughts?

Thanks Suzie. As ever very helpful. No details were given by the DCC-C engineer and I expect it's too late to ask now. 1. This is an interesting warning. At the moment - probably by accident or also maybe because there is no loco load on the track - all the points seem to throw, even in multiples. However I 'll do as you say. 2. A good point for others reading this - I don't have any frog switching, display lights, switches or anything else attached to my Cobalts - just 2 wires from the accessories bus for power and command.

I think you are probably right in some way or another, though I am not really qualified to say so. I will be following this up with DCC Concepts when I have some clear measurements without too many extraneous other factors.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have several kinds of Cobalts from 2 early analogue ones controlled through an ADFX2 board through to the latest IP ones. I hear what you say. DCC Concepts have been unfailingly supportive and provided useful advice as I waded in to DCC control. I have looked at their leaflet for the IP range which says "Power: 9~23v DCC or DC. static <5mA, active average <40mA". I am only reporting what I have seen on the digital ampere display on the NCE PowerCab handset as suggested by BromsMods above. It has only 2 decimal places to show, but isn't 30 thousandths the same as 3 hundredths which would therefore register as .03 on the handset? I am well known for my oblique stupidity so I could be wrong again! So a single point throwing would raise the background load by .04, multiple ones by a varying amount over time since they all start throwing in a staggered way. Throwing a single point I see the load go from. 0.36 amps to a peak of 0.42 amps or a throw load of 0.05 amps (50 milliamps) - which seems to be a bit higher than expected. I may be my idiocy, the relative accuracy of the simulated ammeter or other factors introduced by this happening with the whole layout attached. What I intend to do is set up a test rig with ONLY two Cobalts on to see what registers on the load and what changes when 1 is fired or 2 are fired simultaneously. Then at least I shall have something exact to talk to DCC Concepts about.

Thank you for your help. I have checked the manual and it does indeed say 2 amps. Sorry I should have read more carefully. I have also switched the ammeter on (if all else fails read the operating instructions!). I have a background at my reduced level (described in post #17) of 0.16 amps. Changing a crossover sees the draw go up at peak to 0.42 (so much for 30 milliamps!). Causing the reset macro to run as described above (multiple Cobalts fired one after the other) I get a max reading of 0.8 amps and a beautifully lit bulb. So the explanation is clear. Adding most of the rest of the load, including my 2 NCE Mini-panels gets me up to a background 0.34 amps. Strangely the peak firing loads are 0.54 for a crossover but the maximum of 0.8 for the macro doesn't seem to change(??). Sadly I cannot afford the PSX range. I have 4 separate busses and the cost is eyewatering. Any advice at affordable levels would be very gratefully received - with apologies for wasting so many people's time.

Thank you for bearing with me! I obviously failed to move decimal points appropriately or to add the results properly. Ugh! Sorry. I now see what you are saying. Is this situation OK - can I continue like this - or do I need to revise my whole layout powering ideas? If so how - cost IS a problem. |What do I do with my CP6? Careful this is a family show! My age is showing! RMS meters for £15!!!!! Strewth at that rate worth waiting for even if it does have to be shipped from China. Thanks again!

Thank you for all of that. I have had similar troubles myself when trying to sort out power districts. Sadly we only learn (mainly from our own) mistakes. I think the insulating rail joiners advice would have been good for me too. However that does not apply in this particular case, since the accessory bus is separate from the track buses. Thanks for the offer of a loan of a heavier duty power supply, but I don't think that is my problem. I'll keep in touch on that.

Thank you for your thoughts. I accept your theory - but I don't see it borne out in practice. Just for the hell of it I have disconnected the other three power districts AFTER the CP6. I have checked that there is no power on ANY part of the track. I have disconnected my controlling NCE Mini-panels. I have disconnected the corner and fiddle yard boards from the station & port boards - physically and unplugged their cabling. I have disconnected the bridge rectifier and the IRDOT from the accessory bus "just in case" (easy to do by removing one wire). The only items connected to the PowerCab are on the only bus left connected - placing a loco on the track has no response because there is no power. The final accessory bus has 10 Cobalts and 10 signals ONLY (the missing small number are on the disconnected boards (3 Cobalts and one signal). Sadly sending commands to this tiny load results in the bulb glowing. If I deliberately send some commands to set the main points to reverse and then use the reset macro which will sequentially (but without pause) sends "set normal" commands to the Cobalts then the bulb glows brightly for several seconds as the motors whirr. The interesting thing (to me) is that ALL the points are returned to normal, none get missed. The "overload" does not confuse or lose the DCC commands. Sadly I don't have an RMS meter suitable for checking things (nor the budget to buy such an expensive thing) and I doubt if my best Maplins analogue unit will get anything worth reporting. The standard load is 10 micro LEDs and their controllers and 10 * 5mA for the Cobalts. Even if I fired all 10 Cobalts simultaneously then the draw should be 10 * 30mA which (as you say) should be insignificant. I doubt if the whole shooting match exceeds .05A let alone the .5A which should be necessary to set the bulb off. I understand what both Nigel and you have said - but I don't see how it applies.

Thank you very much for continuing to help. As Nigel Cliffe has pointed out - though I have 4 separate "power districts" the total power supplied by the PowerCab is 1 amp - so exceeding that on all 4 legs will trip the Power Cab itself. This DOES NOT HAPPEN. As I have said all accessories are on a separate feed which is not connected to any track at all. I would assume therefore that (though the overall load may affect the PowerCab) what is on the layout does NOT affect the accessories bus. The accessories bus feeds round the whole layout - about 18 feet max. I would think. There are 5 TrainTronic signals, 6 GPLS, 13 Cobalts (maybe thats the problem! perhaps I should buy another?) and a bridge rectifier feeding a minor DC current to an IR detector. That's it. As I have said, I have a control system which can issue multiple DCC commands to the bus and when that happens the sounds of moving Cobalts are accompanied by the glowing of the appropriate CP6 light. I can get the same effect if I disconnect (and so discount the conrol box) and use the PowerCab handset. Single commands can set a point or in some cases a crossover (2 points), I have a PowerCab macro which resets all main points to "normal" - which at the ultimate can fire off 10 Cobalts if they were all in the wrong setting (most unlikely). The glowing of the CP6 light appears to be proportional to the number of Cobalts that move position. This can be over quite a long period as commands go out from the handset serially but the Cobalts may take a second to fully throw, so there may be several moving at once. Does that help or confuse the issue further?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think I understand the bit about how the bulb function. The Cobalts are a mix of old and new: old controlled by ADFX the new ones with built in electronics. The track is Peco: mix of fixed length Setrack and flexi, the points are Streamline - all code 100. Most are electrofrog, I have not messed about with them to "DCC" them or done any frog polarity switching. The Cobalts are simply fed with two wires from a separate bus, no extra wiring, no use of "clever" switches. So I still don't understand the huge power demand on the accessory bus - presumably by the Cobalts. Any help/advice/explanation on that greatfully received.

I hear what you say. I MIGHT believe that if anything else (i.e. locos) were drawing power. They are on the track, but nothing moving.

Quote from their NCE EB1 web page "This is not recommended for use with the Power Cab. For the Power Cab use the CP6. ". So I did that!

Please excuse me I have been overwhelmed by my ignorance and would appreciate some guidance from more knowledgeable/better qualified persons than myself. Background: My layout is a small BLT with 4 road fiddle yard. I have a NCE power Cab with an NCE ProCab as a slave. I have a "control box" (as you do) with buttons to set routes and multi-colour LEDs to show how signals are set. The output is through NCE Mini-panels onto the NCE bus (via a standard NCE face-plate) - so nothing I have done should affect that output, which will be a string of accessory commands in DCC format on the NCE PowerCab supplied power. I have been running thus for some time with no (apparent) problems. For wiring convenience I had split the power out from the NCE face-plate into 4 feeds (Power Districts) 1 for the main station, one for the complex Quayside that I have, one for the fiddle yard and one for all the accessories. So all accessories are powered and DCC commanded from one bus. Failed DCC-Cobalt: One of my Cobalt point motors failed. I took it out and returned it. They kindly fixed it and returned it saying that the electronics had been damaged by a short circuit. Insertion of NCE CP6 (car lights?): I felt uneasy, so before I put the Cobalt back I bought an "NCE CP6 Circuit Protector" specified for the PowerCab and wired that in after the faceplate. The the CP6 also splits the output into 6 - I needed 4. I have tested the 3 supplies to trackwork and they work fine - short on one circuit does not affect another and the bulb lights. PROBLEM: Light on PD4 - the accessories bus - glows at varying brightness whenever a string of commands is sent out by the Mini-panel (a route might be several points and a signal say). Horror! Aghast I tried using just the NCE PowerCab handset to send single commands to an address - some are single points, some are crossovers with 2 points on the same address, some are signals (TrainTech DCC or CRS with TrainTech DCC controllers). Signals change without the bulb glowing, single points change with a small glow, crossovers cause a brighter (but still small) glow. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! What am I doing??? It seems to be just the Cobalts and the more the brighter (if you see what I mean!). Question: Am I over-reacting? Is this actually OK? Should Cobalt point motors somehow short ciruit the supply - HELP PLEASE. EDIT: I just realised of course that it is not a "short" necessarily but maybe an over demand on the supply?

Whoa! Take a step back. A sector plate is a piece (a section of) a circle. All I see is straight lines. You will need to curve something they cannot be (as they look, though I may be mistaken) straight tracks. You cannot curve a Y point (well you can and I have but I don't recommend it). You will need to curve the other plain track. I suggest you put the centre of the sector plate square with the Y point - which it isn't at the moment - and curve the plain line into the sector plate. I would suggest your sector plate needs a curve on its face? Else how does it turn?

I agree with Zomboid - the more you have to do to set up, the less likely you are to do it. Cassettes do take some building BUT when done provide a ready storage system and can turn whole trains round (relatively!) easily. You can also have loco sized cassettes which enable you to swap ends/directions too. The aluminium section and bulldog clips is probably the easiest way. You do need some shielding on the sides if you want to move them away from the FY so things don't drop off (Or very large aluminium angle). I have seen heavy cardboard stuck on the sides for this purpose. The cassettes need to be simple and easily manoeuvrable. Now I get that you need to be able to remove the FY. An alternative is a fold-able table which can rest against the fixed (most out of the way) part of the layout when not needed and which can have cassettes put on it to connect to the feed. As I say I suggest 2 feeds using a curved point. This will give you cassettes of the full 1480mm long - which is loco plus 4 coaches and will fit your station. You NEED you fiddle yard to be a good fit for what your traffic will be. 2 feeds would let you have an empty cassette for outgoing traffic plus a full one for incoming (say) saving mucking about with point changes on a ladder or having to change a single cassette. By the way - if you end the feeds on the fixed board so the cassettes can align with them then you don't need to cut and solder rail! The cassettes can be stored on shelves above the layout - much easier than moving individual carriages/wagons somewhere when you need to remove the "obstruction". You can keep whole rakes together this way ready for use next time. Set up for a new session can be quite quick in my experience.. Keep thinking outside the box and it will help you get something that works well in your situation. It is a good space for a nice working layout. Stick with it!