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Please note I didn't say 3' radius was not good enough. What I was saying was that was what you needed and 3' + 6' + 3' is your maximum so 1) you cannot have 3' curves as they will hit the walls, but with some compromise on fiddle yard road length and maybe 34" curves it would work. 2) as you come down from 34" you really should keep to the maximum curvature possible - the larger the better it looks. 3) 24" and less curves are likely to cause running problems - so you need to ensure that your balance between number and length of fiddle yard roads and the curvature that you need results in a useful and enjoyable (for you) result. 4) points on curves are a source of running problems, they need to be well laid in and not of the Settrack type, if you want 5 coach trains (which should be possible) you are likely to be putting curved points in. Getting that right needs a CAD package (best) or a lot of work with pencil and paper or using templates real size. 5) your lovely design (which we agree won't fit) has some sweeping curves - great they look good, BUT you cannot just wallop from one of those into a tight curve to get you into the fiddle yard - it'll need some transition. Those on the current plan seem to have that - but when you make your plan don't forget the requirement. I too am far more interested in the operations side of the model - timetables, WTTs, traffic realism etc. But I do need a track which when I run the trains means they do what is required - so you need good track planning and laying PLUS a plan of how you will use the fiddle yard to meet the traffic needs. Good luck.

The difficulty is what you WANT as opposed to what will fit. What you want might fit into a 16' by 10' garage if you have one spare. Otherwise you need to be sure what your minimum ask is. You simply cannot have 4 track main lines. You might get away with 2 and a goods loop (bi-directional?). You also seem to want big trains - well with that you need some bigger curves - because at speed the trains will look daft on a tight line and likely will buffer lock and/or tip over or derail. I think a 6 coach + tender loco will fit in 6' which with 3' minimum inside radius will give a few problems if you want multiple tracks. You choose your own compromise. Remember reach length - 12 line fiddle yards are simply too wide to reach over - if you try you will constantly brush over stock/locos and you also need some handling (finger) space between/around the lines. You need about 4" or 5" width for each track for good finger room - reduce it only if you are increasing the number of lines: but as I said, closer together more chance of unintended derailing. So you might get 7 or 8 lines at a push. Multiple lines in the fiddle yard mean curved points outside it if you want to keep the sidings the same length. Curved points need to be good ones because of travel speed. Now you can begin to see why most of us suffer end to end BLTs or Minories take offs of various sorts. We would LOVE 12' by 8' but won't be getting it any time soon. You have luxury space - but not if you want to emulate the real thing in any detail. It's going to be about compromise. My "expresses" are diesel loco 4 coaches and a BG. Doesn't look too bad.

Here I go again. It doesn't fit. Two points - and there are many more but I have neither the time nor inclination to continue: 1) The "new" curve you have put in bottom right by pushing the bay through the platform end is below 2ft radius (it looks like 20" based on a bit of squared paper aligned to the 8' end of your layout idea giving me 24 squares) in reality at any speed your carriage stock will buffer lock and/or fall off. 2) The "fiddle yard" is 12 parallel lines wide. I would suggest that needs to be at least 3ft (900 mm) to give a fairly minimum space for fingers - I just manage with my track at 60 mm centres which isn't ideal (I make mistakes too!). With 18" for the 6 line station throat that is 4' 6" of your width gone, which is not how it appears in the "blown up" diagram (quick estimate of 4'). As Nick says, there is more to enlarging an N gauge layout into 00 than just doubling the dimensions. I hate to be a wet blanket but every time your daydream layouts have inherent problems which will make them unattainable in real life. If you are serious go to a stationer, get some A4 squared paper and a French curve or a small set of compasses and draw it yourself. Better still spend a few bob on a decent model railway CAD package. You need to get your own feel of what fits where - then you can more easily recognise whether these layouts drawn with deludingly thin lines can actually be replaced by 30 mm wide tracks on a baseboard in real life. Most of the pretty plans in books cannot. I hope you do some of your own measuring and checking soon, because if you don't you will end up in frustration. Why not build something less ambitious that will fit? I will go away now and keep quiet. On your own head be it!

Try the DCC Concepts micro's - they are smaller and centralised - I had problems with a Guagemaster 8 pin which was slightly arranged to the left. The DCC-C ones are not much bigger than the socket.

Surely Frosterly marble?

I don't know the diameter of your (intended?) coach bolts - they tend to be quoted as M10 meaning 10mm diameter or similar. Search on Google for wing nuts for coach bolts. Frankly I find "breifcase" or "drawer" latches much better as they hold everything tight without screws. IF you are not taking your baseboards apart often then hardwood dowels will do, otherwise get some of these (or similar) https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/25mm-Steel-Dowel-Model-Railway-Train-Set-Baseboard-Alignment-Joiners/1955351294?iid=302140217444

Something I almost said myself - until I noticed that the original was like that too. Now had I been designing the original, and given that there was a crossover "before" the goods shed, I'd have had that particular crossover the other way round so ye olde horse or pinchbar gang could have moved the vans through the shed and out onto the stub so a loco could nip in and take them out without filling the shed with smoke, steam and sparks. I don't know how it would have been done in "real life" - were there shunting trucks come spacer wagons that could be used?

Phil, Your usual brilliant piece of work, amended for input by the experts. I would agree with Mike that a double slip at the right hand end of the loop to allow a set back into the Down refuge might be a good idea, but I see your point about the signalman being there to handle such occurrences (maybe the traffic manager might be some help?). Given the possibilities of the layout - including such as the loco running round the goods to take some wagons off and push them into the Up refuge - I don't see the problem. Like so much of your stuff - wish I had space and then I'd build it (T-scale anybody?).

I like the Johnster's comments, and I understand what you are saying about things being a bit awkward is in tune with what you were thinking about. I think you also need to consider your operational enjoyment. The fact that it might be a bit awkward to do some things maybe OK, but everything? Depends what you want - rule 1 applies. I have just watched a friend build a layout which was a beautiful presentation of an industrial scene - as a diorama. It was a nightmare to try to do any operations on it, and has just been stripped down again. Nine months in the making and all gone in one! If that single slip allows you to move things from the old plant to the new - maybe it's a good idea?

You mean other than it won't fit? If you cannot, or do not want to use a computer to do this you MUST get a pair of compasses and do this to scale. If you are not intending to make your own points, crossovers on curves using ready made items with dictate much larger curve radii. If you intend the visible curves on the left to be a minimum of 3 feet at the inside then as far as I can see you are likely to have platforms at best 5ft long in 00 gauge. The curves under the non scenic area can be tighter, but if you want any speed of travel of through trains you cannot make them too tight. The platforms being part hidden is a good trick and has been used to advantage many times - and gives you a chance to fool the eye. Loco + 5 coaches might be feasible in those circumstances. Regardless of what you say you DO need a fiddle yard or staging area. There is nothing to shunt in this new layout plan???

If you have that 4 feet, put 2 either side for fiddle yards and build an industrial scene in the middle. I think David's 3 way amendment would be best.

Why have you got a point at the extreme right side of the baseboard? No room to do anything there, or are the more baseboards or more space you haven't told us about? C'est magnifique mais ce n'est pas un chemin de fer - if you get my drift?

Welcome - good luck with your endeavours. Have you seen http://www.carendt.com/ much decayed recently and fallen on hard times since Carl Arendt died. The content has been taken over and "modernised" - loosing much in the process. Look to the early pages where there are layout plans. You might find inspiration. I am not sure why the sidings into the main factory are at the back - nobody will see them? What do you mean "The mainline is offstage to the top right, behind the main building." Are you intending to have some kind of fiddle yard there to make up incoming trains? I note that you are using Hornby Settrack - is that because you have it or just for you to play with while thinking? Peco Streamline is compatible with it and has more types of "turnouts" including single and double slips so may give you more freedom. For example a slip at the point top right of your canal basin might allow a siding into the main factory at the front. I'd make the main factory building just an shell and have it as a place to have cassettes to hold "trains" and move into the factory areas to receive trains and substitute the stock "out of sight". The "main line" behind your main factory would also be a cassette area so you could easily substitute stock during operations. Is this the kind of thing you were thinking of?

All (most unless there are specific sighting problems) UK rail signals appear on the LEFT of the line. Like the roads we drive on the left. So you should at least INVERT all your signals. The more traditional way is to lay them on their side on the line of travel on the left of the line, it's more obvious what they are there for. Your feather reads to the upper platform - no feather reads to the lower one. You maybe need one at 2 o'clock (position4) for the loop which you have marked a s unsignalled - if nothing ARRIVES there then no need for a feather, but I would have thought it might be useful for goods inwards to all your sidings. You can of course use the platforms - and many places do just that. Depends on your traffic. If you DO have inwards onto the loop then make the crossover to the left of "Unsignalled" IN only - out/shunt would be direct onto the main line Signal 1 and "Next box home signal" are showing green when they should be red, it is arguable that 1 should not be able to show green since all routes end in stop blocks (with red signals on them) so red/yellow only. Its unlikely that "Next box home signal" would indeed be 2 aspects - more likely 3 or 4. I still don't understand the purpose of 2. If you want to protect a train setting back left to right into the concrete siding then 3 and 4 could be locked at danger. There is no need to reflect the status of the next home signal - that can be on your platform starters (3 and 4). The signal has no apparent purpose other than decoration (so rule 1 applies!) as I cannot see why you would want to stop a train across your station throat still half in a platform??? You wouldn't set out if the routes was not clear. Move it to meet the nest para. If ANYTHING (light engine or train) is leaving the area marked "Unsignalled" towards 2 there MUST be some kind of signal. Since the line is a main running line it ought to be a main signal. You probably should put it to the left of the turnout for Charringtons. If you are setting wagons back into Charringtons you would again need a GPLS onthe main at signal 2 (reading back into the unsignalled area). Do you want some waffle on permissive working? That's (for example) a light engine to the head of the platform to pull the train out again or a second DMU set following into a half full platform. That means a PLS on 1 to cover that. Better not do too much until the real experts have said something. Beefore that though I suggest you have a think about traffic and shunting.

The experts are not around at the moment - probably school holiday parent/grandparent duties or the like! Any way they'll ask you for region and era to give definitive answers. Immediate thoughts: It's not easy to see which way you intend all these signals to be in train travel terms - perhaps lie them down in direction of travel and usually on the left hand side of the line in direction of travel too. In the UK red (stop/danger) is always at driver eye level - usually the lowermost bulb. If by "horns" you mean feathers - those nice strings of 5 lights which indicate direction then yes some might have them. You will be told that in slow speed (station) areas it would usually be a route indicator (displaying numeral(s)/letter(s) to identify the route. I like most others "illegally" use feather signal 'cos I cannot afford to buy ones with route indicators. Feathers are not for shunting. If you need to call on (say) a loco into a platform which has a train in it you use a Position Light Signal (PLS) which is two lights at an angle below the main head, only lit when calling on and the main aspect is red. I also break rules since I use my PLS with the feathers where there are multiple routes. Shunt signals (GroundPLS - GPLS) are only to control shunt movement and would not normally appear on the main line in the direction of travel. Everything has exceptions. "Modern" rules say that GPLS that might have several routes have miniature Route Indicators below them with a character/numeral to indicate a route. It is unlikely that you will see mixed up 2/3/4 aspect signals since you should not (for example) show a green when the next signal might be a a more restrictive aspect (red/yellow). Your signal 3 could have a GPLS at its foot for the concrete siding. Neither 3 nor 4 need a feather UNLESS your two inwards "main" lines are bi-directional - since there is only one route out. I am not sure why signal 2 is there - 3 and 4 could be locked to danger if you were shunting from "next box home" back into the concrete siding (where is the GPLS here?). What is 5 for? If 1 is your main home signal then there might be 3 feathers to indicate which platform or loop was the destination. There might be a PLS too. The signal might also only have red/yellow aspects too since the buffer stop is red - but that is debated still. Signals are only for necessary moves - they are expensive to put in and maintain - so in real life there tend to be fewer than you might think. HTH?......

If you have not seen this before - go to https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html for solid advice on wiring. I does NOT need to be complicated, but (as with everything in life) a bit of careful planning first can avoid a lot of heartache later. If you need/want to test ideas out first, then try to build a small shunting layout or similar to try out ideas and check that they will work. If you have the space, a bit of a "roundy roundy" with some sidings may help to get the ideas straight.

Just as an example (I am not sure what other manufacturers do) DCC Concepts Cobalt point motors (there are analogue and DCC versions) have a template which you can use to pre-drill pilot holes etc. I used it and was able to retro-fit some motors later. I think your idea is perfectly feasible. Another route is to simply drill a hole through the baseboard under the point tie bar and fit a servo later. The more careful preparation the better in the end. Fitting anything under baseboards after they have track and scenery on them can result in a very sore neck and back, and damage to the layout. Mine was dismantle-able so I was able to split up the boards and put them on their sides clamped to a workbench - minimal damage and I could see what I was doing! There is little difference between DC and DCC wiring. Wire droppers to every length of track, not limited to those you want as isolating sections in DC, then you can just link it all up to a power bus. With forethought you could design your DC track feeds such that they fed the droppers too, then it becomes even easier. Again, plan in advance and make sure that you can get underneath/extract baseboards from the whole etc. so you can do things later.

Admiring of your work and inspired by things you do. How do you cut card that thick for your signal box or is it laminated (several single layers). I go through Stanley knife blades at the trot and have problems keeping straight cuts with repeated passes on 2mm card.

The way round Rice has it is probably the "right" way. You cannot take a loco into a goods shed - so you will be restricted if the line is covered (which your's isn't I agree). Cattle pens are infrequently used and can easily be reversed past giving plenty of room for kickback shunting into the goods shed.

I like the layout BUT um! er! how do you intend to shunt the biscuit factory? Locos are prohibited from entering goods sheds - so there ain't any space. The only way I can see would to be to put another right hand point on the incoming line trailing and a crossover with the goods shed line. The only problem with your goods and biscuit factory is then you are shutting the "in" line to shunt. Not good on a busy urban station?? Personally I'd put a trailing point before platform 3 and have the goods/industry sidings off that - shunting then doesn't foul up other movements.

Thank you so much for that effort. I will set about trying it. Will it work with other packages too I wonder? Certainly I know that Templot does it - but beyond my needs and rather complicated for what I would want. Can you now delete the background? Obviously after putting on some key structures on the bit you are keeping. I take Phil's point on accuracy - but then what I would (most would?) want to do is prune and compress the layout to a size I could readily use (only in my dreams of course!). That's why I ask if you can delete the background since as you change (especially compress) things will get out of kilter. For example you would be shortening platforms, goods sidings and in/out lines. It's also true that the OS didn't always get station detail right even on the larger scale maps. Try looking at the turntable above!

PLEASE don't give up. Such questions are always of interest to the large band of uninitiated like me, who visit here to learn. There were plenty of good nuggets of information until the (un)professional squabble broke out. Sadly it frequently gets personal and we just get caught in the crossfire! HAPPY modelling to you!

Please tell us how you do this. It's not available in my version of Anyrail, and it would be of great interest I would think to all armchair planners and pipe-dreamers. Maybe even a reason to go and buy this version of Anyrail! You say that you cannot upload ".any" files. I thought it was possible - it again would be very useful once you have done the hard work to plan a compressed layout in 15 or 16 feet from the original 21ft monster. Why not PM "Andy Y" - the onetime owner and now chief administrator.

I agree with Tony. I think your idea of a central layout with 2 fiddle yards is tempting BUT you don't have the space to do it justice and will be making a lot of compromises. Nobody has mentioned the problem of light engines from the station which will either be wrong line or reversing over 11/12 to get to the TMD. It probably also isn't good practice to have direct entry to a TMD off a main line - but that's a matter of choice (Rule 1). You could reverse the TMD and have a single slip on the crossing to save some fiddling about. You MAY have lots of stock you want to keep on show - but if not who needs 12 fiddle yard lines? Think about using cassettes for example, so you can keeps rakes together but maybe store them on shelves above the layout? Your current layout photos look good and things seem spacious. I would suggest you need to work to keep the same appearance. I think you may be able to "save" your concept by making the top left baseboard wider so the curve and points fit in and bulge the central board (on both sides?) slightly and then curve it inwards - this will relieve the long straight on the left hand side and could perhaps make the station more interesting. There would be a squeeze to get at the upper fiddle yard points - but hopefully you won't need to do that very often.

Happy to comment but I am unable to "see" or download your layout diagram.