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Good idea for 2 reasons: 1) levelling (if you add levelling feet). Amazing how "unflat" surfaces can be. I use levelling feet and there is a table under one part and a cabinet under another, the feet are extended to different heights! 2) you can get hands underneath to safely access (in a minor way) and lift the boards. I use the standard coach bolts and engineers dowels and there is room to unscrew the bolts. If it something like a fiddle yard or non-scenic you could use case clips (not sure of their proper name?) on the top at the back and side at the front? I have that in one instance in an out of the way corner and everything holds together fine. Please note that if using dowels for alignment you need space to move boards apart a bit in order to lift one out.

I'm one of the "don't stick it downs" too. You say there is a box full of "spare" track too. If you want a sort of central "starter for ten" why not stick only some of it down (say the loco shed and turntable with a loop of track and a passing place) but make sure there is an outer ring with exit/entry points so he can play with the board easily - but be encouraged to spread his wings and design some more of his own? Tacky Wax is good but it won't hold against a child pulling.

I think that is what I was trying to suggest in a roundabout way. I am trying to get in touch with my friend as I am sure he has or could take some photos - sadly I don't have any to hand.. The railway runs round the room - one side dedicated to a station the other side to his office (computer, printer, filing cabinet). Most of the track is on shelves and only double track wide. There is the usual drawbridge over the door. Corners are a bit of a problem, but units and chests seem to sit under it all OK. If I remember aright its a waist height and he only has 2 drawer filing cabinets that fit under. The line is only filled out/scenic-ed at one side, the rest is threaded through and over the other furniture - including a work bench. He even runs a few trains while thinking (at least that's what he says!).

Another wheeze is using one shelf of a bookcase for some through lines - you could have a 4 line fiddle yard hidden away like that - obviously as you have to cut "tunnels" into the bookcase its best if its an Ikea "Billy" or similar. A friend of mine has 2 tall double "Billy's" side by side - gives him about 60" by 10.5" of 4 track fiddle yard (longest sidings are loco+4 carriages if I remember right). Glass door light oak - looks quite good, stores the stock under cover and gives 5 shelves of books/ledgers/boxfiles etc. You need to set the layout height to meet the shelves of course!

It's 6 ft between tracks, and 11ft centre to centre in 12" to foot scale. But of course that's just theory. There are a thousand and one reasons why 44mm will be too small centre to centre, some of which Mr. Pestell has noted. You will never get 12" to foot fingers in between lines in a fiddle yard unless its 55mm or more for example - mine are 65mm apart to get LocoLifts in easily!

I don't know where that size came from. My 00 101/108 are 19" over couplings and a 121 (Bubble car single unit) 10.5". Mk1 coaches are also around 10.5" over couplings. If you need more just ask - somebody will know. Have you looked at http://www.carendt.com/ for some small layout ideas - the earlier years are better than the recent stuff.

I think everybody here would applaud you taking up the hobby again. Most of us have been through similar rushes of blood to the head. I know I wanted to build something huge to make up for all the missed years. I am so glad I listened to all those who warned me off. I didn't understand about radius of curves or the idea of transitions between curves and straights. I didn't have a clue about the electronics needed to control things - 'cos a sure as God made little fishes you won't manage this without LOTs of electronics (see for some of the essentials). Note that MOST (if not all?) large layouts like this are built by teams of like minded people - often selected for their range of skills. Laying the track alone will take many months - wiring many weeks more. This is a long term project which could easily fail - not because of lack of money but sheer exhaustion with little to show for the effort. Money may not be a problem - but ROCI will be! Rule 1 applies - it's your railway do it your way. Personally I think you will regret this for all the reasons given so far and many.many more you will fall over as you go along. If the sheds too big put a settee in it and an exercise bike!

Copyright is raised many times in these pages. Try this for a simple statement https://www.gov.uk/using-somebody-elses-intellectual-property/copyright especially the last part on "Permitted Use". I doubt whether you meet any of the criteria - since you have "published" the item in a public place not just taken a copy for your private use (say using a library photocopier when doing research). However what you are doing is probably "research" in its widest sense and certainly for the purposes of education (yourself and others) again in the broadest sense. Even had you bought a book withg the diagram in it (or the SRS CD) you would still have been in the same position - you didn't buy the copyright - so you should not copy it. It's all about protecting the intellectual effort of the man who drew the diagram, wrote the book, painted the picture. I'll not bother you with performance rights! I doubt whether anyone would chase you in these circumstances but they could do so.

Delighted you are joining us, and I do hope you find it all great fun. HOWEVER instant reaction (as from one who has gone through this phase) is that it's too big and far too complicated for your first layout since you last did any railway modelling when you were 13. By all means get the shed built - man caves are definitely a good idea BUT for heavens sake get the feel of things first. Have you actually got any stock? That loco and 12 carriages will set you back about £500 at current prices - how many were you thinking of? Have you thought through how you intend to control a layout that big? By the way - your through station platforms are about half the size of your terminal platforms?

I love Harlequins designs, and this one has raised another thought which might strike you as useful. Forget ECS and use the traverser idea. Just align the the top head shunt with line 6 on the traverser. Using the traverser idea with Peco Loco Lifts to move locos from one end to the other would make it possible to have quite an intensive service. As this stands, the idea won't work because the head shunt is too short. I am sure there are ways round that provided you are happy with a traverser mechanism 5 feet long.

Looking at other comments I thought I ought to go and watch some of the Bradfield videos again. This one shows ECS handling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLjYkFkbIZk. I don't know how "prototypical" this is - but it looks impressive and good fun to do. I had assumed that there was (and I believe there is) enough space for the pilot to run round the ECS having drawn it out into the "Fish Dock" road by pushing back a bit, and then using the crossover on Platform 3 to run round so it could then do a pull into the Branch Siding and a propel into the appropriate Platform. The process used in the video seems more "efficient". This process would work fine with your throat, the train loco either waiting in Platform 3 or in the loco lay by before collecting stock that the pilot has pulled out into a head shunt. However, unlike Bradfield, without the extra parallel Branch Siding with access to all platforms, you would have to pull out and propel back from the main out line, hence blocking all movements. As you have said this needs platforms/ECS sidings to be 5 carriages + main line loco long. Hence the 12ft overall needed for platform+throat+CS. I can only have 4 carriage sets (plus an occasional short BG) on my 00 layout (completely dissimilar!). A fascinating subject area and thanks for raising it again.

I understood (?!) that layouts like Minories worked one of two ways. 1) train runs in to Platform 2 (the designated arrival line) and loco decouples. Replacement loco from siding pulls out stock onto "out" main line and then propels back into Platform 1 and then departs after taking on passengers. These were likely "tank only" services where the loco from incoming would go for water to the to the loco siding and then do the honours for the next train. All in to Platform 2 and out from Platform 1. Note shunting (as per Bradfield) would be to the outgoing main line and NOT to the incoming line. 2) trains run in to either platform, new loco arrives LE and attaches to draw out. No need for pilot. Though of course previous loco (if it was a tank) could simmer in the sidings. Tender locos have to rattle off LE to the nearest turntable (unless you want grumbling and black faced drivers on long distance trains?) If you want carriage siding(s) they really ought to be parallel and alongside the main station so the pilot can draw out from the platform and propel into the CS. Else it becomes trapped as it can propel into the head shunt but is left to draw back into the siding and is trapped since there is nowhere to run round?? Hence carriage sidings usually off scene in areas where land is cheaper and there is space for run rounds etc. Your throat diagram is a little over egged (?) for either way of working since the slips only need to be singles, the upper in favour of P1 to out main and the lower in favour of in to P2/3. The other routes have alternatives. Your design allows arrival to 2/3 whilst departure from 1 and departure from 1/2 with arrival to 3. Unless you want parallel moves (fun if you can control them) the the upper slip could be a single LH point and the extra point at the end of P2 deleted - but keep the lower double slip to provide access all areas.

Well I like it (a lot) - but it isn't the same footprint. Minories was 7 ft or so - this is over 10 ft (unless I am mistaken). The advantage of Minories is that you can curve the exit by swapping points about a bit and have a curve into a fiddle yard (I am desperately tryiong to find my plan for that!). This is a straight in and out - nothing wrong with that of course.

Glorious overkill for a tramway (technically a "light railway so they say) with a single line and 12 stations! But this is Italy of course - say no more.

Please excuse my ignorance, and its a bit off topic but since the photos are here ........... With a co-located disc as shown in post #26 above, how do the signals operate. Modern signalling has sort of co-located PLS under the main signal, but that's easy to understand as the PLS does not have a "stop" aspect to display. Here there are to my simple mind 2 stop signals - on on the ground and one up above. Does the co-located disc have to be moved to "off" when the main stop arm is lowered? I have probably mixed terminology but I think the experts might be able to understand me.

The "tried and tested" way for sector plates and traversers is to fit "bolts" - some people make their own in various ways others buy brass ones from a hardware store - you need one bolt but several "keepers" (one for each line you wish to align to). The approach was also used as a way to provide power to the sector plate/traverser, not essential for a sector plate as you can apply power at the rotating point.

With an absence of Christmas spirit I suppose and with great respect, and some trepidation, might I say I think I should be impressed but sadly I am not. If I had even the vaguest idea of what you were doing and why, I might be able to see some relevance. At the moment it is a load of (no doubt excellent) DIY electronics strung together for some unknown and unfathomable purpose which I cannot buy, see or touch even if I wanted/needed some of it.

Well it might be Christmas, or it might just be that there is no information to go on. Like no dimensions no indication of stations/freight facilities or whatever. Both outer loops are marked to run the same way, the inner loop is marked as both ways. Thus it apparently breaks a few rules to start with. Trains drive on the left - so there is an unusual facing crossover middle right (but those lines are marked as same direction?). The bit marked "helix", is that out and back on the 2 lines shown (In which case left out right back would be usual) or a separate return on the two things that look like buffer stops middle centre? Is the crossed line in the middle a crossing on the flat or a bridge? Sorry but even the amateurs cannot help without a better diagram and some description of what goes where and direction of running etc.

Regrettably not without the permission of the Copyright holder, whom I guess isn't you. You could ask I suppose but it is unlikely. I doubt if they would regard this as "fair use" or "research" as defined in the 1968 Copyright Designs and Patents Act.

The link doesn't work (for me anyway) but you can get there using http://rdt.ergotools.co.uk/Pages/UserGuide/SignallingCharts.aspx and clicking on the link there.

Recommended? There is "Traxeditor" which has an old web page http://www.traxeditor.com and a newer "Beta test" site http://beta.traxeditor.com/. I am trying hard to make it work for me and having considerable problems, Maybe a learning curve, maybe it's rubbish - I don't know which yet!

Congratulations. The rest is pretty much par for dealing with the press - they mix things up, get things in the wrong order, print the wrong revision etc. I don't know how you avoid it. Anyway your designs are excellent and inspirational. Who knows you might get the job of doing all their layout plans - they need someone to improve them!

Thanks Phil. I have been inspired by your talent, but unable to replicate it. I won't hijack your thread further. I have just tried Trax and I don't think I'll be going further there.

He's a professional designer/artist and it shows! I wish I could find something which will work through a browser page. I am giving up on Windows after a lifetime using it professionally - becoming far too much of a hassle and rather expensive too. I can get all I need on a Chromebook apart from a model railway design package! So I am trying to make use of the design packages I can get hold of - with little progress. Sadly they are not very intuitive for a ham-fisted CAD man.

And sadly you have forgotten the additional (approximately) £20 per signal for the DCC decoder/control connections! As I said a long time back on this thread - signalling (real life and in model form) is expensive which is why not every route that might be used is signalled. The beautiful signal plan you have covers it all. Expensive though isn't it! Which is why I used Traintech signals in the end and kissed goodbye to PLS and RIs on those that needed them.