lochlongside

Connection problems –possible problems and my (!) solution Crit alert – what follows is not a criticism !! – If I could afford it I would like a 12 car rake tomorrow - it simply reflects what I encountered – and more importantly how to sort it. This info is based on assembling my 4 car unit, and disconnecting some factory made connections in the process. It worked for me – and the 4 car unit is still in one piece and has been running brilliantly (and noisily) for an hour. However I hope it also proves useful to anyone having problems connecting up. Attached are two photos - first shows how one connector arrived on my APT-E The 2nd annotated one shows two of the connections for the APTE and is referred to below. First note that it is virtually impossible to see the pins clearly whilst making the connection and applying the requisite pressure (force? to overcome the resistance of the connectors, partly because the top (alignment?) tongue C1 in diagram covers the connectors partly because the gap between the pins engaging and the point at which you need to apply pressure to engage the physical connector is very small (10 degrees?) – as the instruction book says, there is a knack to it – and I did not have it !! and even worse Jason advises you can mess up the pins if you use force e.g. if you incorrectly think pins are aligned and that you are just overcoming physical connector resistance. Therefore if you coaches are being awkward make sure that the pins and the holes are central in their mounting. I had two complete sets (out of the three) which were slightly off and as a result the pins and the holes did not align – in one case the pins were biased right and the socket left to such an extent that the LH pins aligned with the holes in column 2 and the RH column with plastic outside the 5th column of holes – e.g. no alignment at all. See point A1and A2 in photo 2 above – the cure for A1 is at top of bogie is a very small Phillips screw B1 loosen this a fraction and re-align socket centrally then tighten it up. On the inset half (A2 in diagram 1 it is not possible to access screw without dismantling the trailer. Note that tongue C1 appears to align the pins/sockets centrally to align with the opposing connector. If it is off-centre the pins (see A2) will be as well. Instead use a fine screwdriver and a small pair of smooth jawed pliers. The screwdriver can be used to shift the connector across on its base (if necessary – it isn’t here) and if you use the pliers at 45 degrees and twist (carefully!) you can shift C1 relative to the already centralised pins and base – as I had to here. The next issue I had was the physical connectors – the slots are slightly tapered across the jaws but measured 1.16 to 1.23mm at their narrowest, however the knuckles measured 1.53 to 1.57mm so in worst case the pressure required is needed to overcome nearly 0.5mm of tough plastic, but even worse there is also give in the bogie towers/connectors so they flex/twist a trifle worryingly as you apply pressure, and the only bit to really hold onto is the tilt mechanism (!!). I knew the factory fitted bogies connected up so I disconnected them (sharp small screwdriver in slots above the connecting knuckles/jaws and multiple alternate side twisting until the popped off) and instead connected the bogies to the recalcitrant connectors; this enabled me to apply pressure behind the connector as per diagram halfway down page 6 of instructions. Even so some of the connectors were reluctant. At this point true engineers should look away – I sorted it out by putting a large screwdriver gently into each jaw and very gently slightly twisting it to improve access !!. I even found this necessary even for one of the factory fitted connectors when I came to re-assemble the bogies to their temporarily disconnected parents (make sure you do connect them as per original way round). Health warning: You do this at your own risk - Do not overdo this as I am not sure how much spring there is in the plastic jaws Finally each time I connected a bogie I tested the unit before attaching the next one. Now all I have to do is turn the sound down !!

Hi there follow on to my query I messed around to 1 a.m and got PC1 and TC1 connected then thought I would sleep on it - this a.m I put strong light magnifying glass, pliers (!) and micrometer onto it and got the remainder connected but had a bit of faffing around to do so - took around two hours - I took some photos of problems and will put them in a separate post later today - none are insuperable but they may be useful to others who have had connection problems (I know at least one poster earlier did) and to reiterate what others have said a lovely model - I am happy its certainly not going back !! , the sound is excellent and on strength of this I will be converting my Stirling order to a sound model (if Sandra lets me !!)

Hi Jitman thank you but in nicest possible way thats exactly what I have been doing - as per booklets instructions - you can just about see that the 2 pins on the LHS are possibly engaging to go in on one side of socket but on the other side they appear to be misaligned and are hitting the plastic around the socket - however they do not look bent when I look at them under a glass. Problem is compounded by the socket mounting twisting up as it tries to engage. As I said I do not want to force them hence I want to see how an expert does it - i.e. the youtube video..... if it exists yet.

Has anyone found/been able to access the Rapido youtube enhanced instructions for connecting up the 4 units of APT-E yet referred to in the "read this booklet" it doesn't appear to be obviously availableon Youtube ? - mine is proving a real pig to connect up (i.e. not one of the 3 connector pairs is matching up as per instructions and I do not want to force it as the instructions threaten penalties for those who do) ...... and I am not convinced looking at the connectors under a mag glass that the plug and opposing socket are central in the mounting.

Ray I think you and AndyID may be over engineering solutions when they already exist. I am told by the some magazine writers that latex adhesive has some expansionary capability. There also used to be a very clever guy who wrote in RM around a century ago (when I were a lad) who implemented a meths burner live steamer in OO gauge. You could turn the burners to point down, and then if Kernow reintroduced their water/weedkiller train then it could follow on behind to restore the track to its normal gauge. Of course this means that you could only run steam engines followed by freight diesel trains but steam followed by diesel is very evocative of historical real life, and if you left a reasonable gap (which did happen in real life as the prototype diesels kept falling apart then you would also simulate the scorched earth embankments of the steam era thus saving on expensive electrostatic grass devices, but with the diesel coming along to save the day. Of course as a qualified engineering consultant rather than an expert there are probably one or two teething snags to overcome but I am sure the gathered minds of RMWeb will be able to resolve them (.....d*** missed the 1200 deadline)

Couldn’t agree more KalKat (I will email Peco today ) but with one exception – the wait. As a railway muddler with aspirations and having bought a trial sample of Peco test code 75 plus one curved turnout I too then turned to something that "looked" better - C&L, as unlike SMP they do attend shows, but was concerned (understatement) at box price relative to equivalent Peco from Hattons inc p&p. However was then lucky enough to get a C&L pack during their last sale. That was problem one solved and at not too much of a premium, but the current cost of C&L turnouts is something else – Most of us actually need turnouts as we build, even if we (well I) take a lifetime to build so I have now been forced (!) to make them using Templot plus ply sleepers etc etc. It would have been marvellous if Peco had at least announced that they were going to do say a Large Radius RH and LH turnout at the same time as the plain track. That would have shown that it is worth waiting. However as after 39 pages, the discussion on plain track can get a bit repetitive can I in a spirit of mischief toss another brick into the pond and ask for the debate to broaden. What standard of (large) turnout should Peco provide 1:7, 1:8 or 5 foot radius and what standard should it be built to - OO-SF or standard (?) OO, and the curved turnouts?, and the track spacing for crossovers? (bearing in mind some lucky people now own Mark3 coaches or APT-E and will be running them round said curves??).We should be able to reach pp120+ in no time (and drive Peco to distraction at the same time)

I too also received this notification having placed my order in Sep 2013 - now we have a realistic "current" price, and given it is still in Drawing Office I wonder when we will get a realistic delivery date - my guess for what it is worth (zero !!) is Jul 2017 (but would not be surprised if the price rises to exceed C1 in meanwhile). We are fortunate indeed that unlike Hornby, Bachmann are vertically integrated with their own factory otherwise it could be significantly delayed with all the consequent comment that might entail .

Many thanks - I appreciate it is only a personal view - but even to know they are (ostensibly?) in production is useful and at at least I/we know worst case

Thank you for the various updates - my initial orders are in but seeing the pictures I am further tempted ....... I have a quick query on deliveries - (assuming you have have reached the appropriate stage and based on your experiences with the Sentinel) 1. Do you expect the first defined block of liveries to be a trickle deliveries of single liveries at say 500 per time over 2-3 months or to come as a single block of say 3500 (7 liveries x500)? 2. Are the last three livery deliveries defined here likely likely to turn up at roughly the same time as the first batch of 7 defined liveries or do you expect the later and re-approval liveries to arrive say two or more months later than the liveries already defined? As they say "....this is a non-contractual, non-binding provide for outline planning purposes only request - dates are not required"!! (and neither are the relative order sequence for livery delivery). I just want to know a sort of general expectation so I can increase my order safe in the knowledge that it will not be showing up too much in the monthly modelling budget !! especially considering how Hornby hammered it last Xmas despite my best planning

Not sure how UK banks work but interesting comments on some legal sites about breach of financial covenant – to paraphrase:- one site (US) Banks do not like calling in the debt if there is in their view an underlying profitable business, because "Ongoing businesses can be a revenue source for banks even when the loan has developed problems. Besides, banks must set aside reserves for loans they classify as being in default, and they don't like to do that since capital tied up in reserves is capital that can't be put to work earning money for the bank in the form of loans to other borrowers”. In banking I believe an owed good debt is actually an asset and I can see that as applicable in UK as well particularly when the economy is on the up. The big question is, is the business profitable, and do Barclays want to be the bank that shot “Thomas" for less than they hand out in compensation possibly every week (you can see the headlines already!!).

My last post on this forum was savagely truncated by the GBP prob but here goes First productivity –(re post 834) is based on hours worked and worth created – by definition I believe it excludes the unemployed. If you have a country like one or two EU ones with high unemployment but say high rates of overtime or highly paid senior workers, versus one with a young work force working in a service sector or at the start of their career and low unemployment, you can quickly see how productivity can be misread even if you do not subsidise low wages. On IT - As a recently retired IT Project Manager who has installed several new customised/bespoke distributed IT systems covering software, hardware, and ERP customisation I would say that according to Hornby accounts they have not spent that much on a new system (GBP988k) compared with the benefits that might (!) accrue to a GBP50M turn-over company. I can see why (and I would say it wouldn’t I !!) Hornby needed a decent ERP. Take a glance at the Rights Issue documentation risks section for a high level scope of what it is to do for them. May be they would have discovered their GBP1M write-off earlier if they had got a good IT system earlier. Who knows it might not even have happened. There is also quite a lot of useful info in the Hornby Annual Report. Consider the number of suppliers they are using, the number of outlets they are supplying, the fact that they are tracking debt/payments of around GBP2.3M p.a (GBP2M of “past due by over 120 days not at risk trade receivables”, GBP370K of past due at risk etc ), around GBP900k of raw materials, GBP11.5M of finished goods-stock etc), the management of a rolling 6-12 month futures protection against dollar variation of around GBP2M, the use of 4 different currencies together with all the Management involved in researching, developing and delivering new items for at least 6 markets as well as tracking the profitability of existing products, etc; I am not convinced that any organisation could do this on a spreadsheet with a couple of well trained clerks (as one or two here have suggested) The Finances and Mr Ames’ departure When I read the accounts (I am no accountant but someone on here probably is and can correct my figures !!) if your profit for the year was only St321k, a write-off of St1M or 10% equiv of stock held is significant. I would assume – reading between the lines that possibly what did for Mr Ames (the catalysts if not the only reasons) was discovering things like St1M of write-off less than 6 months after producing an annual report and an optimistic rights issue proposal for GBP15M where this was not even alluded to in the risks, an extension of a revolving credit facility of GBP10M(?) of which a significant sum (GBP8M used to clear existing debt ?? – not clear to me) together with a collapse on post Xmas Sales when everyone had been led to believe in the Rights documentation (Risk 1.5) that Hornby normally (that’s what it implies!) do pretty well. When the bad news is followed by a 75% fall in share price a sacrifice is essential to indicate that “something” is being done to the “scribblers”. The CEO is normally the fall guy.!! Shareholder Knowledge – Mike Storey Re post 846 I would say that you might be a little pessimistic. Mr Canham is Chairman of Hornby, where his role is to look after shareholders interests, he also happens to be a director of Phoenix Asset Management – one of the major shareholders (20%) in Hornby. As Chairman and on a basic salary of significantly more than Mr Ames he/they should know what is going on. New Pistoia (23%) and Ruffer LL (who have recently upped to11%)the other major shareholders might find it more difficult but are probably relying on Mr Canham – he’d better get it right if he is now becoming CEO as well !! If people read the Rights Issue and Annual Report particularly the financial sections – there is some interesting stuff buried in the boring detail.

Just rxd this from Hattons..... . We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us, on order id xxxxxxxxx has had some information about its release date added or updated. Dapol 4S-018-005 LSWR Class B4 0-4-0 30096 in BR black with late crest £79.00 Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us between November 2016 & December 2016 Info E-Mail was subject to usual Hattons (well justified) caveats...... so its still in development !!

Head above parapet here !! (and before anyone says it I have no connection with Hornby except as a buyer of stuff and I am certainly not a shareholder even at second hand.) Joseph - not aimed at you here but just want to present a St Jude (look it up) view of some of the comments on this subject I think you will find principal shareholders been a lot more patient than football fans/owners -The investment houses own around 55% of shares and one of the less opaque -Phoenix Asset Management has the stated aim of investing longterm in businesses that have significant potential (!). These investors have seen the share price steadily decline over 4 years , the shareholders in total then subscribed £15m to a right issue six months ago at around £0.95 a share and the shares have now fallen off the cliff(75%), and in all these 4 years these “profit-driven” shareholders have taken no dividend at all. That is more patience than any football club (except perhaps Arsenal-2nd tin hat on !) and certainly more than has been shown by many people on this web-site, waiting for their favourite loco from the raft of specialist forward looking, innovative manufacturers all so capable of stepping into Hornby's shoes. I still have unfulfilled orders from 2011 and 2012 from two of these innovative suppliers and they're not Hornby. Interestingly Phoenix also has one Mr R Canham as a director and the chairman of Hornby is also Mr Canham and the chairman's job is to look after shareholders interests (on £300k p.a I believe.). I think 4 years is long enough - you could argue that Mr Ames is (once again?) taking the rap for for someone higher up - he left Ladbrokes as an IT director on remuneration of around £370K (see Guardian) with the Guardian saying he carried the can for Ladbrokes (IT) failures. He walked into Hornby around two years ago on a basic of around £287k (see annual return) where a major IT project was taking off and and in his just under two years has been found wanting - in the last 6 months the undertakings given by the coy are in danger of breaching the financial covenant, there is a large and significant hole in the value of the held stock, and to my mind some query over the performance/progress of the IT project (not sure of the latter - may be reading too much into iill-informed press comment). As CEO he has actually accepted the responsibility/blame - that strikes me as an honourable thing to do - unlike so many in the public/political sector who's fingers have to prised one by one off the doorframe and then pushed out with a massive press boot up the backside, a wafting of tax-payers pound notes and an alternative job offer on the other side. (PS his pension pot is not millions - according to annual report = £56k p.a for 2 years = £112k total - but I have got to admit do not know severance details - but unlikely to be millions based on these figures). However of more immediate relevance to all of us is No profit = no new models (and no tax for governments to spend for our(their?) benefit, and without the various SR locos I, like "DunSignalling", would have precious few SR locos on my S&DJR/SR layout. If it was not for Hornby what would be pulling my Pines Express or my Royal Wessex (a Dapol A4 at 4x the price - now there's a thought ). The disruption of any re-alignment/sell off of the Hornby businesses could well result in major delays worse than those 2-3 years ago and goodness knows what we would end up with, and finally as far as quality is concerned compare the relative merits of the three current O class freight locos I know which is the best as I have got at least one of each - the Hornby one is excellent the others ... they're ok.(don't ask where the O classes fit in on the S&DJR - rule 1 applies - a belated Exchange perhaps!!). Just though I would offer an alternative view!.

Being local and having lobbied for the H&P livery on the Engine Shed site - I think I am honour bound to order one (or two or perhaps a rainbow selection!!). However while the livery of Dodo may be correct I am not sure they have accurately modelled the curved roof (perhaps the cognoscenti could advise -straight face !!)); and a modelled version of the sacking version door of Nelson would definitely be a talking point.

Robin - That was what prompted me to comment - I wasn't aware of shedding detail - would explain why I saw it so infrequently (can only remember once) - many thanks for info LLs

Question for Graham Muz really as on every search his name turns up near the top of the searches !! - when were the two proposed BR sets scrapped ? - I ask because I have a strong memory of seeing one of these sets in green pushed by an M7 on the bridge at foot of "Archway Road, Branksome" probably (no later than) around early mid 1961 - it made an impact at the time because as junior teenager as I couldn't believe that BR still had coaches with open doorways !!- referring to my IAs of the time only 373 is listed in summer 60/winter 60-61 edition - that implies only one survived to that date and that they did wander around the Bournemouth Poole area?

Good day John Quick update - Been tracking two BR ones on 3 sites for sometime now - note that since last night the R3329 has slipped from 02/09/15 to 04/10/15 on Hornby website no change to R3328 - still showing 27/09/15 and has done since at least 07/08/15

What a superb bit of nostalgia !! and a nice passing capture of a distillery loco Dailuaine(?) Could anyone enlighten on the signal indication at 14.28 appears to be ok both ways?, and also on the maroon (red?) coaches both clerestory and large-doored at 24.40

You can add loco R3243-K1 - TEC05 Rolling stock R6643 - BR Shunter truck - REF01

think you might have slightly marred my pleasure..... . mine also has a v slight wave...(more a shy acknowledgement!) over the motion bracket when I put a ruler on it. Provided it doesn't get worse over time I can live with it - it is nowhere as obvious as yours

sorry initially pressed wrong (report) button Herewith first pass at some photos - apologies for quality still coming to grips with technology Shows amongst other things that loco arrives already coupled to tender (using white plug of yore) Cab dials /controls appear painted - bit difficult to get in and look at detail The various maker plates appear almost readable(my mag glass was not powerful enough to read all detail - but you can certainly read mfr date -1949 on front frame) Front lamp irons are the tall type Sandpipes look v fine and in some cases are behind wheels - Currently runs a bit stiffly - it didn't actually need a shove because it starts on just over 2 volts and once running goes quite smoothly but at slow speed is currently happier on 1/2 wave rectification - probably just needs a good run in. No chance as yet for haulage test - need to restore missing bits of circuit to do that (wasn't expecting it to appear until March !!)

Yes - posted notification yesterday from Hattons and received this am (ordered 01 Jan 2014) - having slated Hornby a few days ago for deliveries they have taken wind out of my criticisms by delivering 3 different locos and 3 (sort of different) coaches in two weeks and all in this pre-Xmas credit card period alone (admittedly had to go hunting for one of them) - so much for budgeting well ahead. Thought there were some pictures earlier in this topic - if not could try for some tonight.

Looking for clarification here.... pay £50 deposit reserves you the model and pay balance before it is delivered (presumably when it is actually in stock) - pay £179 gets you free postage and auto sending of item when it is in stock, - in comments above about announcement one person says it is an EP, however on viewing website says they are in stock - - Has anyone seen an advised/estimated delivery date ??

Those who have spent £100+ on a loco that is faulty or who have committed to buy one but not received it do have a justifiable grievance but purely to restore some balance to the discussion I would just like to say well done to both Dapol and Hattons Got my SYP maroon Western ordered from Hattons 16/12/12 posted 15/05/13 received 17/05/13 RM tracked - double checked today in slo-mo given comments above - no wobbly wheels runs beautifully looks the part and pulls a house - will be ordering another again probably from Hattons as their ordering system has never yet let me down - no connection with either but manufacturer loco build and retailer service both first class in this instance.

Just received my Network Rail MRA set in blue grey - nice model (s) but couple of points to be aware of that I have not seen mentioned elsewhere - 1. The lifting eyes are only set into a shallow slot - mine arrived missing two one of which was recovered from wrapping so unwrap carefully from the internal wrapping; they can be glued back in place fairly easily. I will however have to manufacture the missing one as it is certainly not worth sending the set back for one out of 40 lifting eyes ! 2. some of the (20) plastic rails under the ballast bins were not glued into the base of the bin in line with base of bin - the resultant bins would not sit straight however much I manouvred them - the solution is to undercut the rail it from rear and level it out. - Initially I thought it was just me but I see Hattons website 3rd picture of B859NRBG also has an uneven seating problem! Attached photo sort of shows what to look for if the bins do not line up/seat properly 3. Finally to balance the picture - it certainly has not led to me cancelling my remaining MRA order - it really is an impressive wagon set and when I have my seven foot rake (2 sets) set up it is going to look even more impressive.