Ian Kirk

As this was originally designed as basic entry model it is more of an impression of a Caley pug rather than a scale model. More of a Monet than a Kodak. The high firebox top was almost certainly to clear the motor but the model has been around for a while. No guarantee that it now has the same motor as when first introduced so if it now has a smaller motor there might be room to lower this. If not having the bunkers full of coal is a good way to make this less obvious. On the actual loco the bunkers each side of the firebox (inside the square bits at the front of the cab) sloped down and the coal came out of holes on each side of the cab front. If you load these with coal don't add the wooden tender as the locos with tenders usually ran with the bunkers empty. These were standard Neilson types and were bought by both the Caley and the NBR (who then copied them) rebuilds over the years meant that by BR days they had different cabs etc. I scratchbuilt an NB one as a teenage modeller in 1963 and had great difficulty fitting it around a motor (I had to use a TT one as all of the 00 motors at that time were too big) best wishes, Ian

looks like more hand assembly. I can't see so clearly but it looks as if there is no pronounced taper on the footsteps. Were these added? No way of knowing from the photograph how the holes for the upper handrails were produced and as these are complex multi part moulds they may be made up differently. The second photo has lines going vertically downwards from the smokebox "hatch" the blue one has a few rivets here. There are a couple of other differences, did the streamline casing vary from loco to loco? If there was more hand work on the earlier model (like jig drilling) then the latest one might have been to save time and thereby costs. best wishes, Ian

Injection moulding tools are of course negatives so if you want a wire size hole in the object you need in effect a pin on the face of the tool. The lower handrails would be easy they are close together on the closest thing to a flat surface of the moulding. The upper handrail would not be so easy. Ideally to get neat small circular holes you would need the "pins" to be at right angles to the surface. On this double curvature you could never get the component to part off if they were. You can see that this part of the moulding draws off at right angles to the front of the locomotive. Look at the footsteps you can see the taper (draw angle) on them imagine the component pulling out of the mould part in line with these. The upper handrail holes would appear to draw off in the same direction. I suspect that the original "pins" coming through the curved surface were not robust enough and the larger diameter tapered "pins" substituted. I imagine that the deepest part of the taper hole will fit the wire and the spec will call for the outer bit to be filled with glue/filler when the wire handrails are hand fitted. The alternative would have been to jig drill every moulding with the right size drill, costly and time consuming. We do demand a lot of detail in our models these days and even if the new technology computer driven toolmaking is amazingly good you can only engineer so far. Ultimately it depends on some poor soul gluing bits of wire into holes, probably thousands a day, day in day out for not a lot of wages. Not surprised we get a few duds. best wishes, Ian

Back in the now very distant past, before websites and Mail Order Houses There were many more Model Shops than there are now, most towns of any size had one. These usually had somewhere, varying from a length of track on a shelf to a full layout where locomotives could be tested. No one thought of purchasing even a new RTR model without testing it first. Many of the shops were also service agents for the RTR companies (in those days Triang and Hornby Dublo) and had to try stuff out. Good to hear that some modern establishments keep up the tradition of test before you sell. best wishes, Ian

I seem to recall a film (British Transport probably) which included shots of Aberdeen Fish landing and handling where the narrator said that these fish would be in Billingsgate London early next morning. The trip down the ECML would have had to be pretty brisk to achieve this.. best wishes, Ian

Must have missed this thread up until now. Price comparisons for those of us who could mostly only afford the Triang option. I seem to have kept the catalogues from my last few years of my big Triang Train set. (before I caught the "scale" bug and wrecked most of them for the motors). I wish I still had them all. best wishes, Ian

The larger fishing ports could justify whole trains of fish traffic. As a boy in my home town of Kirkcaldy I remember the "Aberdeen Fish" which seemed to thunder through the station. If we were on the platform the porters used to tell us to stand well back. Usually Pacific or V2 hauled and I used to wonder how the guard felt as the van seemed to swing back and forward on the end. I have noticed in one or two photographs instances where there are a couple of fitted vans behind the guards van I wonder if this steadied it in some way? The make up of these trains would change as more modern stock became available and the older stuff was withdrawn.in much the same way as passenger trains did. Early LNER fish vans looked much like ordinary fitted vans, later ones looked the same but were longer vans (12 ft wheelbase) then some (but not all) were insulated and you could tell these by the recessed sliding doors. Then came the "blue spot type" so a train with a variety of van types could still be a fish train and not just a fitted goods. (Many years ago I produced kits for all of these which later became Parkside) Smaller fishing harbours like Anstruther, Pittenweem and St. Monans (where I used to have a factory on the Station site) on the Fife coast line did not justify fish trains and fish vans were frequently added as tail traffic to passenger trains. This eventually led to the retention of one steam hauled service on the coast line when DMUs were introduced as I believe they were either not allowed tail traffic or restricted in the load. This was discontinued when they did away with the fish traffic altogether and a group of teenagers from Kirkcaldy Model Railway club travelled on the last steam hauled service Thornton- Anstruther and return neither of which had tail traffic. best wishes, Ian I don't think that the "Forth Bridge" photo is a fish train as by that period I would have expected more dedicated fish vans in the consist and there are sheeted opens further back.

Sorry to see this too. I wish Dave a long and happy retirement. Lots of small model railway manufacturers are at the same stage. It is an age thing the "bright young men" of the early 70s are getting fewer. Where are the small scale Entrepreneurs of the 21st century to replace them?. best wishes, Ian who is starting to feel his age

The DMU parked in the sidings probably means that by then the up bay was no longer in use as when DMUs were first introduced services terminating at Kirkcaldy ran forward then back over the crossover and went into the bay until time for the return trip. They probably parked up in the goods headshunt/loop unless shunting the down yard was in progress. They certainly did later once there was less freight. best wishes, Ian

Looping the loop and defying the ground ... The Theme song from "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines" To get it back to Railway related: The Shed Foreman At Thornton (62A) put his "best" J36 aside as it was first intended to use this in the film (masquerading as a French loco) in the end Jones Goods H. R.103 got the part. However one day, driven to distraction by a run of diesel failures (maintaining these amidst generations of coal dust - not a good idea) he sent the J36 out to shunt Seafield Colliery. This was some time after steam had been banned and eventually higher authority stopped it but this J36 -I wish I could remember the number- was the last B.R. steam loco to work in Scotland. If we knew the number perhaps Hornby could honour it with a 00 model. best wishes, Ian

It would seem that the Third class "diners" were not only able to walk through the corridors of First class coaches but could also have had in some cases to walk down the centre of the first diner. Unless of course you indicated an intention of dining before booking seat. The basic 1928 Flying Scotsman Had a Brake third and Composite First/Third behind the Third end of the Triplet Restaurant set. Then a Full First. Next came the Hairdressing salon/ladies withdrawing room/ cocktail bar third ( Handy for first class passengers) then a couple of Thirds and a full Brake. So unless the Third class diners all came from the Brake third and half of the Composite the rest would have to walk through the First , the Restaurant First and the Kitchen corridor. Funny to look back into more "class conscious "times. Not just on the railways. My first visit to a Motorway Service station (as a fairly small boy) was to Lancaster. No real motorway then but it was on the bit that was called the Lancaster Bypass the main building still includes the big concrete structure, Atom Bomb Cloud shaped. The top bit was a proper Restaurant with waitresses (black dress white apron) at the bottom was the self service which evolved into what we have now and round the back was the Transport Café for Lorry drivers. I suspect that it meant that you could buy the same Egg and Chips at three different prices. We were taking my Maternal Grandparents some where for a holiday at the time and they inevitably got in the lift and went off for First Class dining (my Maternal Grandmother was the sort of woman who wore a fur coat and hat to go out for afternoon tea with her Sister) Mum, Dad and I went for Self Service. Much much later when the motorway was completed (for the first time). I had the factory and was travelling up and down regularly I tended to use Transport Cafes when available. The food was no worse than the standard Motorway Services offering, much cheaper and there were no noisy families. In recent years these places seem to have disappeared. best wishes, Ian

There is a big difference between frosted glass and the white glass used by the GNR and LNER. For frosted glass I used to use a bit of tracing paper (remember that?) behind the clear glazing. For the white glass I merely gave the inside a coat of white paint. best wishes, Ian

Chard has it in one. It was only up in Scotland on trials I recall cycling to Thornton to get a look at the future. I believe that the men were less than impressed when they tried it on the sort of turns that were normally done by an 0-6-0 goods loco which could go into the dodgy colliery track and get out again. They found similar problems when they finally got the Claytons - with the added excitement of when was it going to catch fire? Putting complex fairly lightly engineered machines into maintenance facilities and working environments which suited the simple heavily engineered steam locomotive was never likely to work and it took years to sort out. best wishes, Ian

There were once a lot dotted about the country, most wagon works had them even the little wagon repair works at Thornton that I went to look at when it closed about 50 years ago as a possible factory unit plus site for Railway preservation. Builder got it though and it now makes timber frame houses. There is one still at Swindon but I do not think it is still operable. The reason they were popular in wagon/coach works is the huge saving in length over conventional pointwork. A fact not missed by railway modellers. My little O gauge "Thrift Drift " has one concealed under the colliery buildings connecting three tracks to allow exchange of full and empties. This is about a foot long in O gauge (two wagons) but to do the same with conventional points would need two plus a headshunt.Even with tight radius points it would have needed 3 to 4 ft. The old wagon works people were not daft. Even the little one I looked at had 4 or 5 roads in the working area and a few outside The combination of traverser and a few wagon turntables brought all of this down to one track out the gate to connect with BR and yet it all fitted within a comparatively small yard. best wishes, Ian .

Hi, Looks like the little NBR brake van right enough. These were rebuilt out of the Brake trucks that were used on the Cowlairs incline (leading down to Glasgow Queen Street) when this was cable worked. If you can imagine the model cut off all the way round level with the end and fitted with the stantions all the way round. They had two big "ships wheel" type brake handle in the centre and several could be added to a train to provide extra braking. I believe that a single brakesman could control several by going from one to another, no health and safety then of course. When cable haulage was done away with some of these brake "trucks" were rebuilt with an enclosed body like the model and used as conventional brake vans. best wishes, Ian

Hi, Not the Fife Coast Express, that was the non catering bits of the Silver Jubilee. I must have travelled behind this loco in this condition. Too young to remember myself but discovered in a series of letters my Father wrote to my Mother and myself when he was away to the Air Force Reserve after the war. He said of his journey " Tell the boy that it was the same big green engine Earl Marischal that brought us back from Edinburgh" the last in the series of letters it said " I have bought the boy a small meccano set" . I was two at the time so my fate was sealed fated to be an engineer with an interest in Railways. I have seen movie film of the train shown above on an Aberdeen Edinburgh service. Only the first two coaches are from the Coronation it was a Brake open third / Kitchen restaurant twin and for many years used on the Aberdeen/Edinburgh trains. I think two sets may have been involved, up and down. Again I have seen these in blood/custard and maroon. Starting out in a train of Gresley and Thomson coaches then with increasing numbers of Mk1s the ex Coronations would go when the Mk 1 catering types became available I don't think I can remember seeing them after about 1960. Modellers should remember that trains of "uniform" coaches were comparatively rare - named and important trains excepted until around 1960. Another regular formation on Aberdeen/Edinburgh - which came through Kirkcaldy when I was old enough to be at the station on my own- had a Thompson (I think Composite) in perfect fake teak until 1957. I think it must have been some foreman's pet as it always seemed cleaner than the rest of the train. Again, if you modelled that I am sure that you would get plenty of criticism. best wishes, Ian

The third class set did have another third which (from memory) was on a short underframe like the kitchen car. The First twin and the triplet third were used after the war on the Fife Coast Express from Glasgow to Leven and round the coast line. I think that in winter it did not run or stopped short. The fishing villages were popular holiday destinations for city people in the 50s/early 60s pre package holidays. I have seen these coaches in service in red/cream and later maroon livery. In maroon there was no lining but the aluminium window frames were polished or at least unpainted. I did produce a plastic kit for the ten foot bogies but as these will now be with Coopercraft (see under small suppliers) I am fairly sure that they will be unobtainable. best wishes, Ian

On the strength of having successfully transported my " O gauge in a small space" demonstration layout Thrift Drift, 6ft by 2ft by 1ft 3 (with the backscene folded down) in the back of a hatchback insignia and handled it on it's built in wheels and rope handle ( moves like a sack barrow) I am currently working on two 6ft by 2fts giving a 12 ft layout hinged in the middle. Actually CJ F's Minories in O gauge. This too will get wheels/handle. At my age I don't want to struggle with anything too heavy or awkward but was pleasantly surprised with moving "Thrift Drift" .When lifting into car or onto table you are only lifting one end at a time so only half the weight and at home it stands on end against a wall like a wardrobe. Otherwise I would agree that for "ordinary" separate modules the optimum size must be around 4 X 2. best wishes, Ian

Congratulations, looks like a very successful project and an interesting and innovative use of a fairly unlikely source of parts. I know these sets quite well having produced the injection moulds for the (now no longer available) Mailcoach plastic kits in the 1980s. I produced a kit for the observation car but have not seen one of these (even on eBay) for years. One suggestion if you are going to build your own. For a pre production mock up we hand made the end around a section cut from the clear plastic packaging of an Easter egg. Interestingly the "modular" approach you have taken for the sides is similar to what I now use on the O gauge kits that I still make. A couple of O gauge modellers have built similar sets from my Tourist stock or Thompson modules which is slightly easier as the bits come "pre cut up". best wishes, Ian

Problem with building a mirror image would be that a mirror image trackplan would need trains to operate wrong line ie drive on the right otherwise the track arrangements would not work which comes back to up and down lines again. I seem to remember being told that in early pre grouping days up meant towards the headquarters of the Railway Company, down being away from. Grouping and Nationalisation concentrated it all on London. best wishes, Ian

Most of my photos are pre diesel but somewhere I have one of a diesel hauled one coach train on the Aberfeldy branch. This had an ex LNER Thompson designed Non corridor Brake Composite ( 2x 1st 4x 3rd compartments) as the passenger coach plus a couple of vans. best wishes, Ian

There was Norwegian sailing ship the Pax still calling at Kirkcaldy harbour in the 1950s with a cargo of timber. Probably pit props. The Skipper (and perhaps other crew members) had their wives and families with them. I remember the washing hung out- on the ship- and the children playing about the harbourside. This seemed odd as the harbour was supposedly out of bounds to children (but we went anyway to see the railway workings and the steam cranes). best wishes, Ian

The late CJ Freezer postulated a layout in 00 which used, I think, 15inch radius curves either end which were hidden, as were the sidings at the back, with the visible part of the layout at the front on the long straight. That way you can operate long locos and coaches providing they have the right clearances but don't have to look at them on the unrealistic curves. In O gauge with 3ft 3 radius either end you could still get over twenty feet of "straight" layout and the same for your storage sidings. best wishes, Ian

In the 1950s in the smaller scale Wrenn solved the points problem with their "Universal" pointwork. The checkrails were cosmetic as the pointblades and stock rails were in one and pivoted in the centre. Throwing the point provided a continuous running surface from the frog to the blade. With nothing to drop into these accepted all wheel standards from Trix to Romfords scale as in effect they provided the point free running recommended by Dr Krakpott. Years ago I built some in O gauge for a "universal" test track owned by a club. I am currently considering doing some more for a continuous run layout for "Santa's" station as I have over the years gathered a real mixture of stock. My finescale O gauge "Thrift Drift" is only 6ft x 2ft 6 and even the stock for this might appreciate a long run. best wishes, Ian

I shouldn't really highjack Kevin's thread but strangely no. There were at least two families (with no connection, at least within living memory) of Westwaters in Kirkcaldy. Walter Westwater owned the Lomond Cycles/ Model Shop. One half bikes the other Trains. He had quite a big 00 layout in one half of the shop and one day in my early teens I met a slightly older teenager there who was demonstrating his scratch built NBR 0-6-2T. This was Pete Westwater and we have been friends ever since. Our first foray into plastic kits ten + years later was as Westwater and Kirk N gauge The W&K wagon kits were the first proper British prototypes in N gauge at a time when the RTR ones were European re paints. . Pete's main output over the years was commission building locomotives mostly in O gauge. Pete also did the Westykits 00 kits (moulded by me) and did quite a bit of toolmaking for Parkside. best wishes, Ian