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Spotted on the SLW stand at ExpoEM today….

Thanks for your various comment. Unfortunately the link to the ViTrains detailing parts has expired but I’ll follow this up separately. There do appear to be slightly different designs of these clips as shown by the 25 and 37178. The ones on the Peaks look similar to the class 25 ones. I don’t want to actually fit headboards but these are quite a noticeable fitting especially on late 70s/early 80s locos particularly some of the Cornish clay Class 37s and Laira based 46s, both of which are in my modelling orbit. I’m sure I found some 3D printed ones on RMWeb some time back but so far have had no luck in tracking them down. Jeremy

Although not a great photo these clips can be seen on the front of this Class 25 at Grosmont. They are the two yellow clips either side of the headlight and between the marker lights. I’ll see if I can find a clearer photo later. Jeremy

Thanks but not lamp irons. I can make those easily enough. These clips sit above the headcode boxes on Western Region Class 37’s. They appear to be a triangular bracket with securing bolt but would be quite fiddly to make. A casting or print would make life a lot easier….

Can anyone point me in the direction of a supplier of 4mm scale diesel headboard mounting clips as carried by some Class 25s, 37s, 45s and 46s? These seem to be conspicuous by their absence on many existing RTR locos but I can't find anyone who can supply the parts ideally as a cast or 3D printed item. Any suggestions? Thanks Jeremy

Andrew. That’s looking good. Might encourage me to unearth mine from the “to do” pile. I suspect it’s been maturing almost as long as yours… Did you find that you had any sideplay on the driving wheels with the P4 spacers? I seem to recall the reason mine got shelved was that the frames were too far apart to work. I’ll have to have another look at it. Looking forward to seeing how you get on with the slide bars/cross head. Jeremy

Not wanting the discussion about Scalefour North to detract from this thread’s original purpose of promoting ExpoEM Spring I thought I would confirm that Scalefour North will be back in 2023. Unfortunately there was no organising team for 2022. However, the Crewe Area Group have taken on the task and Scalefour North or Scalefour Crewe will be back in June 2023. More details on the Scalefour Society website and its own thread in due course. I’m looking forward to ExpoEM Spring in a few weeks time and hope this is a successful show for the EMGS. Jeremy

I’d echo David’s comments. High Level chassis are well designed and generally follow the same formula - one rocking axle and the others with beam compensation. Gearbox is tailored to fit. I’ve built 3 Panniers and a 14XX in P4. All work well as designed with no need to modify the compensation arrangements and there is no reason to think the Jinty will be any different. If this is a first attempt at a P4/EM chassis I’d suggest simply following the instructions and not getting side-tracked by CSBs or other modifications. These can be made to work well but it’s better to build up confidence by building one as designed first. Good luck. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of support here and the Scalefour Society Forum may also be useful source of information and advice. Jeremy

Welcome back. Look forward to seeing your various projects progress. We might even get to catch up at an Exhibition this year...! Jeremy

25 216 is showing on the website as well.

John Another vote for Tim Horn. He has done my bespoke boards for Bodmin General based on my drawings and with an integrated back scene. They work very well - a quality product. Jeremy

John If I recall correctly, Shawplan do some etched frames for the headcode box but I’m not aware of a full replacement headcode box being available. As others have said the skirts around the buffers will also need reinstating which is a bit of a fiddle but can be done with plasticard and a bit of patience. The comments mention Bachmann versions with running numbers 37238 and 37142 which do both have skirts around the buffers but the headcode box is too high on the nose and both run on the earlier 4 axle drive chassis which is not everyone’s favourite. It does at least allow for straightforward P4 conversion whereas the 6 axle drive one can be a bit tricky and rock on the centre axle of each bogie. Good luck. Jeremy

If you wanted to use this to build up stock for the Kyle of Tongue project Kyle of Lochalsh seems to offer a couple of options. Either the half-a-station approach as adopted on the 2mm version by BCNPete documented on here, or a model of Kyle shed in its final years when in some dis-repair and when the turntable road was out of use. There was a layout plan for the latter either in MRJ or one of the Wild Swan layout design books for the steam era version with turntable fitting onto a single door sized baseboard but the turntable wouldn't necessarily need to be operable or included in a early 1970's version. There is also a laser cut kit for a Highland shed available from Pop-Up designs.... Good luck with whatever option you choose! Jeremy

Not sure if its been covered earlier but could you do this by dropping the fiddle yard or staging sidings under the station/scenic area or is there insufficient clearance? At least then you could keep the layout within the sun room area rather than affecting other parts of the living space. Jeremy

The roller gauges you bought from C&L look very much like they are the Exactoscale ones. They did also do a set allowing for gauge widening on curves but I'm not sure whether either are currently available. Jeremy

They are different types of material. China clay is usually dry and powdery, ball clay usually wet lumps of clay. If you used the same wagon for the different types I suspect they would contaminate each other so that the load would be useless which wouldn’t be very good as they are used for very different products! The GWR wagons were built around 1910 with DC2 brakegear. This was replaced in the 1940’s/50’s and generally became independent either side brakes but varied depending on the conversion. GWR Wagon Loads in Service (OPC) and GWR Wagons both have photos showing the conversions. The latter also has some details of the build. These wagons were generally tarpaulin coveted although some had sheet rails fitted. The BR wagons were built from 1954 in several batches. The first 100 were unfitted again with independent either side brakes (see references above) and the later ones were built fitted with standard Morton brakes. BR Wagons Vol 1 (OPC) contains a useful drawing. Many of the BR wagons were fitted with hoods in 1973/74 and were operated in separate pools with China clay and ball clay wagons marked and used accordingly. Not all of these wagons received hoods. There is often confusion with the open wagons used on the Clayliner traffic in BR days - this was the daily train to the Potteries. This was formed predominately from upgraded 5 plank opens, mostly BR built but several pre-nationalisation ones were used as well. These mainly had roller bearing axle boxes but did not have hoods. I’m afraid I can’t help with 7mm wagon conversions. In 4mm I use Ratio bodies and Rumney Chassis for the BR ones and mainly Parkside bodies and assorted chassis for the GW ones. Hope this helps a little.... Jeremy

That looks good David. Will need a couple of sets please. I’ll try and get to finishing the interior for the Comet kit in a few days and post some photos. Thanks Jeremy

Thanks Flood for the information, I'll have a closer look at Paul Bartlett's site for some more details. I'm modelling Cornwall in the early 1980's so the wagons look to be ok for that. The few published photos I've seen so far for that period seem to show an all over grime livery so I'm not sure I need worry about the branding too much although the earlier style black and white one would make for a nice bit of variety. Jeremy

Is there a readily available source of prototype information for these wagons? I understand that there were various versions of Cargowaggon in use from the mid-1970's but was trying to find out what prototype the Heljan ones represent, when they first arrived in the UK and what get an idea of dates from livery changes from unbranded to branded (or the other way around)? Can anyone point me to a reliable source? Thanks Jeremy

Yes, but..... The oil box ones were different wagons entirely. They were 10ft wheelbase conversions from assorted standard 5 plank wagons rather than the purpose built BR versions. The BR versions did get used on traffic to/from the ball clay works around Meeth and, I think, Heathfield in Devon but I'm not sure what was used to serve the Dorest clay pits although that was also ball call and therefore possibly not suitable for your customer. Sorry, but the clay wagons are a bit of a minefield and the model manufacturers struggle to get the combinations of parts right. The 9ft clay tip/hoods did occasionally get roller bearings but only a few of them and only late in life - late '70's/early 80's. I'll leave it to you to decide whether the correct axle boxes are important or not! Jeremy

Just an observation on the Ratio Clay wagon mentioned earlier. The Hoody bit wasn’t introduced until 1974. Prior to that the loaded wagons would have simply used wagon sheets/tarpaulins when full. Hope that makes the build simpler for a 1960’s timeframe!

I’m not convinced that the GWR 013 clays were fitted at all. The first 2 lots of the BR Wagons were also built unfitted in 1954/55 but later ones were fitted. The GWR wagons were built with single ended Dean Churchward brake gear (DC2) but most were subsequently converted to independent or Morton brakes in their latter years to meet the requirement to have the brake levers at different ends of the wagons on each side. There are a few photos of my attempts to represent this on the Scalefour Society Forum. The roller bearing wagons for the Clayliner trains were a mid-1960’s development to speed up those services and were formed from an interesting mix of 12 ton, 5 plank opens. Paul Bartlett’s books and website has lots of useful information. Roller bearings were rare but not unknown on the BR Clay (Ratio kit) but generally on those that latterly found their way into the Clayliner rakes rather than those with hoods - there will be exceptions!

There is a photo in British Railways - The First 25 Years: Vol 5 The South West (page 11 lower) showing one of the BR design fish vans in a train heading from Torrington to Barnstaple behind 34002 on 23 August 1963. Unfortunately no more detail is give about the service, traffic or routing. Does anyone have any information on that service or any other information on the use of these wagons in Devon/Cornwall? I’ve got a couple of the Rumney Models BR Dia 801 kits that I’ve built and was going to put them into parcels use for a ‘70s/‘80s project but this photo might cause a rethink.... Jeremy

Thanks for the information, at least it seems that Warships were reasonable regular visitors in the early 1970’s. I thought the book was quite helpful. It gives a general overview of traffic from nationalisation onwards and then looks in more depth at various traffic types including china clay, ball clay, oil, timber, cement and so on. It is a bit biased to the period from the late 1970’s until current traffic but, in my view, is a very useful addition to the library and has certainly answered a few queries I had about freight services in both counties.

Having been given a copy of “Devon & Cornwall Railfreight” by David Mitchell for Christmas, I was interested to see the photo of D812 at Bodmin General taken in September 1971 on a clay working from Boscarne to Lostwithiel. I had previously found that Warships may have operated on some of the heavier clay trains from Bodmin from an earlier (1965/66) working timetable but had not seen any photographic evidence until receiving the book. Does anyone have any other information about these workings and in particular which Warships may have been used? Thanks Jeremy