5D_Stoke

I've tried getting tiny grooves between them but it just doesn't look right in 4 or 7mm scale, they appear too coarse. After all there is no real groove between leaves, they are absolutely tight together, the impression is given because the edges are very slightly rounded. Many etched or cast kit manufacturers don't capture the leaf detail of springs very well either, So for carriage springs, while I draw each leaf in CAD so I know they look right, for 3D printing I don't put any detail on the surface of the leaf spring at all. Because of the shape and profile of the ends of the leaves the eye is deceived into thinking the surface detail is there. At least that's my intention! This is the drawing for a NSR Saloon underframe spring and I'm quite happy with how it turned out in 3D in either scale.

I thought that wagon looked familiar. Quite a few years ago I drew these sides to use with Mainly Trains etched brass ironwork and Peco wagon bodies (or my similar home made resin casting) to make Godden & Rudd wagons. The attached file was printed in colour as a 6x4in print, plank lines lightly scored, and then the body parts cut out and the Mainly Trains brass, largely pre-painted black, were carefully glued on top. Then the solebar, headstocks etc were painted to match and the black touched up, with a weathering wash that filled in the scored plank lines. It sounds laborious but a decent result could represent unobtainable PO liveries, on a realistic length body at a time when the majority of PO wagons were very inaccurate. Don't think I ever finished any Godden & Rudd ones because the intended layout never got off the drawing board but the second pic is of one of several I did complete on a Cambrian or Slaters underframe. The other plus was that, as every railway modeller knows, if you spend hours making a model by hand, very soon a manufacturer will produce a ready-to-run version. :-)

Very nice work, I particularly like the fidelity of that axlebox. And with such an obscure prototype you can be 99.99% certain it won't suddenly be produced ready-to-run!

Very interesting, is there a need, and a procedure, for printing by UV cured resin, as this SOP only covers FDM printing? I'd like to help, but I moved over from FDM to prototyping on a UV cured resin Photon S last year. We also have surplus protective gloves to potentially give away to somewhere in the NHS or care sector but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of gloves, only masks and aprons. Many thanks for any leads Mark (5D_Stoke) Res-N-Tech Ltd

Very nice work, just a couple of questions, did it print perfectly straight, as that's quite a long model for 4mm? And that loss of random panelling is very wierd, did you actually fix and slice the STL yourself to see if it would print on your printer and notice whether the panel lines had disappeared then? A bit worrying if the panel lines were there on your fixed STL and just didn't print for no obvious reason... Best wishes for the next one.

Very nice work, just a couple of questions, did it print perfectly straight, as that's quite a long model for 4mm? And that loss of random panelling is very wierd, did you actually fix and slice the STL yourself to see if it would print on your printer and notice whether the panel lines had disappeared then? A bit worrying if the panel lines were there on your fixed STL and just didn't print for no obvious reason... Best wishes for the next one.

No Shapeways doesn't require you to order a print before they will sell designs for you. Though it is useful to test designs esp if you want one yourself, or to run a test at home if you have your opwn printer. I-materialise does demand you order one yourself first, and also has strict rules preventing the use of sprues, so every part has to be printed as a separate model. So although they do a beautiful 'Gray Resin' material with which I have had superb results, the cost of complex multi-part (even just body + underframe) models becomes unaffordable.

In Sketchup I would simply draw the rectangle of the panel, draw two diagonal guide lines from corner to corner so they cross in the middle to establish the centre of the panel, then decide how far I want the projection to stick out. Then from the centre of the cross formed by the two diagonal guide lines, draw a line perpendicular to the panel the required projection distance. Then draw four lines to link the end of that line to each of the corners. In Sketchup that will immediately create four new faces in the form you want. Then delete the unwanted flat panel and guide diagonals behind.

That looks amazing, thank you for sharing the files! I'm wondering how it will print on a UV-resin printer...

Typical 4 wheeled 4mm scale wagons will generally fit within the print area of an Anycubic Photon S with no problem, even when printed on an angle of about 30 degrees on supports. Small carriage bodies also print this way. 7mm scale wagons and carriages are a bit more of a problem. In theory a 7mm scale wagon body up to about a scale 16 feet long, ie a typical pregrouping size, should fit on the print bed but there are snags with printing large items flat on the bed if a floor is included. Any large flat design parallel to the bed will cause suction problems as the first of each layer of a large flat area is likely to break up when the printer moves up to print the next layer. That's one of the reasons for printing on an angle but tipping a wagon lengthways will limit the length that will fit on the bed, and tipping it sideways might be limited by the bed width too. I have been printing some pregroup 7mm carriages in two complete halves, parallel to the build plate but upside down on supports linked to a raft for good adhesion to the bed (the idea being that the supports snip off a plain roof and clean up really well, unlike from any detailed section) but am having problems with the width. The guards lookouts are too wide, by only about half a millimetre, to print on the Anycubic Photon S bed. In theory they should fit, in practice they don't!

No have not tried it, I do all slicing for my Photon S in Chitubox, which (compared to the versions of Anycubic's Workshop I got with the printer) offers a lot more control over positioning support, now I've got the hang of it. I'd be interested to hear about the ability to divide into different zones with different build settings though, and what other Photon users prefer, specifically to tackle the issues raised in printing railway rolling stock. There are a few snags with printing square, regular objects with sufficient accuracy which your typical mini-figure printer doesn't seem to encounter or be too bothered about.

An update on this topic. The NSR single-window brake van has been unavailable for some time through Shapeways due to an apparent small fault in the design, so, in response to a request, I have made it available again: NSR 10 ton brake van body with single side window in Smooth Fine Detail Plastic: https://www.shapeways.com/product/XBMM6T3UG/nsr-10ton-brake-van-body-single-window-4mm-scale?optionId=127888815 After a long break, and following purchase of my own 3D printers to enable more cost-effective prototyping, watch out for some more carriage and wagon uploads soon. Mark ('5D_Stoke')

… proved to be interesting reading for a North Staffordshire Railway modeller always on the trail of details and photos of Knotty wagons. I recognised the number 323 as one we have a photo of in the NSR Study Group, but until now I didn't know the accident it originated from. The accident report records two NSR wagons in the train as: 2850 – North Stafford Waggon – Two axles, four axleguards, buffer rod, and two drawbars, bent; side spring and two spring shoes, broken. 323 – North Stafford Waggon – Headstock, drawbar and side flap, broken; headstock and brakework, damaged; and axle bent. The photograph of 323 appears as figure 14 in the late George Chadwick's book "North Stafford Wagons" and also is I believe HMRS photo ref no V1363. But I don't ever recall seeing a photo of 2850. As it appears the wreckage was photographed, does anyone know whether 2850 was also captured? According to the plan in the report it was some distance away from 323, and would have been relatively undamaged. Even a distant photo would be useful to see which type of wagon it was.

Are you going to do the NSR covered version. This is a copy of the actual Stoke Works drawing for the bodywork.

Very nice, Simon, I'd been thinking of doing one of these myself, based on this car, built by Baguley in 1920 and repatriated from France. It lives at the Statfold Barn Railway but I first saw it when it visited "Tracks to the Trenches" at Apedale in 2014 (an event at which, in fact, you and I met and talked at length about 3D printing!). Here are some pics.

Norton in Hales would make a lovely model. It's not to say the 3Fs and 4Fs didn't go to MD but I think the 2-6-4Ts handled a lot of the passenger and freight on the line. It was pretty rural and not much photographed really. I believe it was in the 1960s proposed to be part of a major west-east freight corridor via Welligton and MD to the WCML and Stoke, and that would have changed the character of the line considerably, but the decline of rail freight meant it was never developed.

Stoke (5D) shed's LMS 4MT 2-6-4Ts were frequently used on the Market Drayton line, including on the last passenger services in 1956. Here's a photo of 42066 passing Madeley Chord signalbox on a Market Drayton freight. Class 4MT 2-6-0s, Black 5s and 8Fs certainly appeared in later years on the coal trains from Holditch and Silverdale, usually coming off the branch at Madeley Chord to join the WCML. LMS 4Fs and 3Fs appeared up to Silverdale, and working the southern section of the Audley lines which branched north at Keele, but now you come to mention it, I don't recall seeing any photos of 4Fs or 3Fs as far along the line as Pipe Gate or Market Drayton in later years. Nor a BR 9F, would love to see a photo or hear of a definite sighting! Photo is copyright Birch Holland Collection ref BH21-37.

Looks very good indeed! And very generous of you to share the file for the GCR bogie and buffers. If you would like an stl file for a GNR six wheel carrriage to encourage your bravery, I would be very happy to send/share one! I use imaterialise and Shapeways but have just bought my own printer, yet to actually turn it on though. Eagerly anticipating your future installments... Mark

That looks superb Mike, it's been fascinating to watch the 3D prints reach this stage, step by step. Under the name "5D_Stoke" I produce a GNR 6wheel brake third in 4mm scale as a complete body, this was measured from the one at the Vintage Carriage Trust just because I liked it and wanted a model, even though GNR is not really my "thing", It's on Shapeways site at: https://www.shapeways.com/product/RLYA8V3QN/gnr-6wheel-brake-third-carriage-body-4mm-scale it's available for others to buy but I've not actually completed one yet, so your underframe details, buffers and the tips you give in these posts will be very useful, thanks. I notice you don't produce the Brake Third in 3D printed kit form. Are you planning any more GNR designs? Mark

I just realised no-one had replied to this. All the NSR carriages we've preserved would have had (nominally) 3ft 6in carriage sized wheels, and number 61 has been restored with a set of those. But 227 has been restored on a wagon underframe with smaller, 3ft diameter wheels because that's what could be found; it has been suggested that larger wheels and new longer springs are substituted to improve the ride, and that might yet be done, but it would involve substantial changes to the brake system which uses conventional wagon push rods and is not a priority at the moment. Hope that helps, meanwhile if anyone wants to follow progress on the next two carriages being restored, there is a Facebook group you can join at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/knottytrust/, and there is a public Facebook page about the running of the train and some periodic restoration updates at:: https://www.facebook.com/KnottyCoachTrust/

Ah, thanks for the extra photo which explains how it prints in parts that fit on the bed size. Ingenious, I didn't spot the joins! Mark

That is very impressive, After a few years of creating 3D prints on commercial and lab research machines, I'm thinking of investing in my own printer to make 7mm scale loco bodies and rolling stock, and wondered how large this 08 body is. The build volume for the Wanhao i3+ is quoted as 200 X 200 X 180mm (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LX8KNV3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ZNcgAbWQTEYTW) but I would have thought the 08 body is a lot bigger than that. Was this aspect something you had to modify on your machine, and if so how did you do it? Are there other modifications you have done that you would recommend to optimise performance on large loco bodies like this? Many thanks,

I agree with what rue_d_etropal says, these are all the reasons why 3D printing by a company like Shapeways or Imaterialise is great for small-scale designers. But Richard and Corbs also have good points, it may be possible to get some of the 4mm scale carriage bodies printed and re-sell them through the Knotty Coach Trust. I am one of the Trustees and run the KCT sales stand, storing all the stock in the closed season, so I will discuss with the other Trustees and see what we can do for next season. Many thanks for the suggestions, Mark

Hi Richard, Thanks for your interest, I'm afraid online shops are the only way to buy them at the moment. The models are all made to order by the 3D printing supplier and I don't actually see what they ship to a customer. There have been very few problems with the ones I ordered, and I have had well over 50 prints done now. I had to have one 4mm scale NSR 20ton Brake Van in FUD re-printed by Shapeways, which they did freely without question, due to slight lifting of one corner during printing leading to a distortion of less than 1mm. The re-print was perfect. Everything else I have had printed by Shapeways and I-materialise has printed perfectly first time. So I think you can order with confidence if you can face internet shopping! I am doing a few resin castings from 3D prints in larger scales (7mm, 10mm) of a couple of the NSR and GNR carriages but these have only been sold privately to raise funds for the Knotty Coach Trust - which owns and restores the real thing. Best regards, Mark

Further to the earlier posting, more of these models are now available through Shapeways than through i-materialise, using a larger range of materials, as follows: NSR Brake Third like the one recovered from Rudyard in 2014: https://i.materialise.com/shop/item/nsr-4wheel-1880s-brake-third-body-4mm-scale?designer=5d_stoke&sortBy=mostResent&pageNumber=1&pageSize=9&index=2 https://www.shapeways.com/product/6L9MTQVEV/nsr-4wheel-brake-third-body-quot-abc-quot-4mm-scale?optionId=62651349 NSR Brake Third variant with the guards lookouts at the end (number 24): https://i.materialise.com/shop/item/nsr-4wheel-brake-third-body-no24-4mm-scale-clip-fit-Hornby-airfix-Dapol-chassis?designer=5d_stoke&sortBy=mostResent&pageNumber=2&pageSize=9&index=4 https://www.shapeways.com/product/3AEGSHFXW/nsr-4wheel-brake-third-body-no24-4mm-scale?optionId=62651602 Seats for either of the above: https://i.materialise.com/shop/item/nsr-4-wheel-brake-third-bodies-interior-seating-unit-4mm-scale?designer=5d_stoke&sortBy=mostResent&pageNumber=1&pageSize=9&index=3 https://www.shapeways.com/product/WZ9SBJKFJ/nsr-4-wheel-brake-third-bodies-interior-seat-unit?optionId=62651505 NSR Composite carriage of similar design: https://i.materialise.com/shop/item/nsr-4wheel-composite-body-4mm-scale-clip-fit-Hornby-airfix-Dapol-chassis?designer=5d_stoke&sortBy=mostResent&pageNumber=1&pageSize=9&index=1 https://www.shapeways.com/product/748ML7Y6B/nsr-4wheel-composite-body-4mm-scale?optionId=62651631 Seats for the composite carriage: https://i.materialise.com/shop/item/nsr-4-wheel-composite-bodies-interior-seating-unit-4mm-scale?designer=5d_stoke&sortBy=mostResent&pageNumber=1&pageSize=9&index=0 https://www.shapeways.com/product/S456ZJ3AW/nsr-4-wheel-composite-bodies-interior-seating-unit?optionId=62651651 NSR Passenger Brake Van (Shapeways only at present) https://www.shapeways.com/product/4MQMFUESB/nsr-4wheel-passenger-brake-van-4mm-scale?optionId=62651776 NSR Hounds Van (number 138) (Shapeways only at present) https://www.shapeways.com/product/VQLJ363SG/nsr-4wheel-hounds-van-4mm-scale?optionId=62651878 Please note that the Shapeways prints are offered in FUD, FED and the new Black High Def Acrylate but I have not test printed any of them in the latter yet. There is also a range of NSR brakevan types and LMS vans available across the two 3D print suppliers. More designs to follow when the nights draw in and I cease playing with real trains...! Mark