Osgood

In an attempt to be helpful, how about a Quick Summary? So far as I can make out, accepting both a) information provided by Dapol at face value, and b) research evidence of Class 08 engines provided by contributors on here - To date no physical errors have been identified / proven on the Dapol 08. Liveries of first Dapol releases appear to checking out ok (with exception so far of concern over black radiator grill surround). Dapol have stated (on their own blog) that future releases will incorporate changed physical details (unspecified) applicable to later builds. Dapol have stated (on their own blog) that they plan to release several different liveries each year. Dapol have invited (on their own blog) requests for potential customers' specific livery choice. So the main uncertainty for potential customers at present is knowing if and when a specific livery (including un-numbered versions) will be made available. Which is no doubt frustrating for some since it becomes a choice between waiting in hope for the right version or altering a confirmed livery release to suit. There is also uncertainty over the future pricing structure of later versions, so waiting for a required version might be a bit more expensive than the initial releases. Have I missed anything?

I thought that was NUTTY! http://sentinel7109.blogspot.ch/2014/07/in-search-of-lost-nutty.html

Well yes and no - the relationship is about as complicated as the 08 family by the look of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_(Doctor_Who) Should we try to avoid anything similar to most of the last 20 pages and agree that the Silurians are effectively a pre-TOPS era sea Devil?

Wonder if the 08 will become a classic Dapol collectible, just like this little fellal? Dr. Who Silurian Who knows - Dapol may be getting Richard Webster to design a range of "ANOTHER FAMOUS RMWEB MEMBER from Dapol" at this very moment!

Getting back on track, that heavy staining would be diesel spillage from over-zealous refuelling.

I can't find a U-Boat Captain listed on the sales webpages anywhere But I have just ordered some drivers (I think I recognise one of them!) - now to learn how to paint them……..

Re - engine compartment floor: Big thanks to the members who responded to my request - an image of a loco in course of construction at Darlington at just the right stage, one of an engineless and bonnetless 08 being hauled under an overbridge (what was the chance of that?!) and a link to a driver have given me the info I was looking for.

On another much more urgent matter (for me at any rate) - Can anyone advise what the floor of an 08 engine compartment looks like? I think it might be a generally flat deck, maybe slightly lower than footplate level, with possibly a big rectangular cut-out for the engine sump (does the 6V in this application have a sump?). I cannot find any photographs showing this detail. Not that I've looked at them all - I just keep finding more and more pics of 08s online! Thanks in advance.

On a lot of photos the upper light on rear of cab is absent, and no conduit (so high light fed from lower lights?). Also appears to be no horizontal conduit between lower lights in some shots. Am I right in thinking from a certain point in time the use of high lamps was discontinued? Something to do with electrification and risk of electrocution? So presumably any loco being shopped for overhaul after this date would have the light removed? Can anyone advise when this changeover occured?

Looks to be a useful site for listing build /numbering / disposal: http://www.railway-centre.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/class_08-13_fleet_list.pdf

Black or blue…… https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4969902857/in/album-72157624412512468/ Interesting cab door variation too.

That has to be the most constructive and useful post so far regarding cab fronts - if the loco has not been re-cabbed at some stage (cabs were removed as a complete unit during overhaul and it has been suggested the cabs were switched around a bit - one loco even having a headcode box at one end but plain the other). These pictures also suggest Heljan have got the cab roof headcode box / horn geometry pretty accurate.

Which only (unfortunately) demonstrates that Darlington built Locos (of which D5185 is one) have a curved front end.

What errors? Could someone summarise exactly what errors do exist, please? Too much to wade through on here now., but most like rear conduit have been resolved? It would be really helpful (especially to those of us with little knowledge of the real thing) if any stated error - like "doors too wide"- could be accompanied by some evidence - if not it becomes just another 'observation', most of which prove in time to be unfounded. At least it would allow the fair and reasoned challenging of any criticism - for example some 'errors against published drawings' prove to be errors in the drawings, not the model.

OK - anyone who has ordered a black variant had better wipe the big smirk off their face and start chanting "Please NO, please NO, please NO…."

I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the dvd Jonathan - very well presented with excellent archive material. Just dropped onto a photo by Colin Garratt on flickr showing drills working at Nassington - can't tell if they are air or water powered, but water is certainly being used for flushing. Your Clay Cross Dick Kerr conversion AMOS is really looking the part now. What a curious beast he was!

Does anyone know of a similarly useful site for those with more of an interest in archaeology - covering an earlier era before the Blue Period?

Correct, but hopefully you will receive a model, not the diagram! In which case you should receive a green 08 with a black top.

In the unlikely event that you are wondering what on earth to do next, Giles - the saddle tank and cable drum carriers on the narrow gauge prompts this scene as your next motorisation project! https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/5436394332/in/album-72157624214785241/ Tony

Many pits had to blast for the excavators too - depended on hardness of the ironstone bed being worked rather than type / size of machine. I'd like to learn more about the drill rigs used - only pictures I've come across so far are the S&L(?) in-house built mobile rigs (looked as if they'd used ex army 4x4 running gear). There is film footage of these in a dvd (look for "Iron Ore Excavation on Film - 1935 to 1953") - I'm not sure if they were using compressed air for clearing out holes - may have been water? Maybe, though, the holes were only cleared out later with air, immediately prior to charging with powder? Your layout build is proving very inspirational, and I'm looking forward to seeing your back scene finished - it looks like it will open out the relatively compact quarrying scene beautifully! Tony

I have no doubt your wish will come true in a future release - what are the symptoms of 08 withdrawal syndrome?

Thanks for posting the link - clears up most matters! Being very pedantic, I suspect the black roof on that last photo might in fact be blue but with a coating of 'rail grime' on it, just as the radiator top has. The coat of grime on the radiator top is more obvious because of the radiused top creating a gradual change from blue to grime - the cab having a definite angle change does not show this. Photos of lesser- mucked up locos show a graduated change on cab roof too. But in the great scheme of things just shove a uniform layer of rail grime on it and hey presto! Would it be fair to conclude that Dapol are trying very hard to get it right - and for the most art succeeding? Regarding responses at shows - if you were to stand quietly for a while and listen to the way some folk (who genuinely and sincerely believe there is something wrong), put their point across, you might be glad you weren't the one having to dream up a polite reply…...

Glad I ordered a black one now!! These new age budget offerings are fast becoming such good quality that most O Gauge modellers would be hard-pressed to make anything better - talk about being spoilt! Yet they are intended for a very broad market - modellers, collectors, users, players even. I'm not sure people would have been so critical of the accuracy and finish of a Lima or BigBig train at the time they were launched, because they were intended for a play rather then modelling market. But they were and still are a viable base for major improvement by skilled modellers. If you pay top prices for top-end models such as the Masterpieces and Marshes and others, you expect it to be right - and that, one imagines, must take countless hours of reviewing and correcting (and reviewing and re-correcting) specs and pre-production prototypes by a number of very highly knowledgeable folk, not to mention the initial research. But there is now the option of these superb value models which - but for that last huge effort to review and correct - would (superficially) almost hold their own against the craftsman-built offerings. How frustrating then, that the producers of same appear to fail to acknowledge how good their offerings are in the sense that they are not considered worthy of that last final effort to analyse the prototype and get just right. Do they really mis-judge the high demands of some buyers of their products, or is it simply not economic to go through that last process? How can they be persuaded to put more effort into making the products as correct as possible? How can they be assisted in this process? There must be a way to make use of the vast knowledge out there amongst modellers / users. If you're not bothered about the crazy gap and misalignment between brake shoe and wheel on a first-generation Dapol wagon, you'd hardly be prepared to pay any more for a Lionheart wagon. But now you can have that same high fidelity at the lower price whether you want it or not - those new wagons are quite superb. The locomotives are so close to being excellent it isn't true, but that last remaining gap between producer and the most demanding / discerning of consumers currently seems unsurmountable - by either party. They'll get there - eventually!

Is the black roof and rather odd shade of blue possibly down to using TRAINSIM as a research tool? A quick search produces only one black radiator surround amongst a sea of yellow (unless it might be dirt, but more likely painted black): Edit: Just noticed the blue buffer beam on same image - that's a bit oddball too, isn't it? A very early application of blue - still has its D number. http://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/diesel;462;08/i-hP57JmJ/A But despite these glitches, at least it is way more accurate than the Lego version:

Its Oops (another slip of the finger?)