Osgood

David - have a close look at the two pictures you put up on your webpage from Martyn's site - 1011 BEAUFORT and 1054. There is something not right here. To my eye ( and even after making allowances for the late hour!), 1011 appears to show a smaller design of locomotive than 1054 (note tank height against cab front, cylinder and wheel size, lighter frame design at rear). I would suggest 1054 is a pedigree E Class, and just maybe the BEAUFORT plates have been put on a different type of locomotive for a 'Works' photograph?

Just looking through the list of E Class which you put on your site, David - the third but last was Hodbarrow No 4, built 1933. The last two (1940) went to the Royal Arsenal to join earlier members of the same class. There is a picture of this locomotive on P 37 of 'MILLOM A Cumberland Town & its Railways' by Atkinson, published by Cumbrian Railways Association (www.cumbrianrailways.org.uk). What this shows is pretty much the same as the early South Wales Docks locomotives, albeit with later type safety valves. Even the curved smokebox front wings are there. It is possible the last two might have been to a more modern style, especially given the wartime build date. I'm afraid I have no reference material on The Royal Arsenal rail system and stock to search for pictures. From what I have learned over the years, Peckett variations occurred for two reasons - age related design detail and specific operator requirement. An 'age related design detail' example might be late C19th / early C20th engines had old fashioned design detail like curved smokebox wing plates, straight on most builds from late 30s / early 40s. 'Operator requirement' might typically be a lowered rear footplate and cab for reduced height operation e.g. gas retort houses or low bridge (a good example here on RMWeb is HORNET latterly of Bersham Colliery Wrexham - see http://ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/42-peckett-1935-1937-hornet), or heavier buffer beams for additional weight / strength. Looking through the customers on the build list, one could easily imagine the vast majority of applications would be standard design builds for general shunting duties? I would be amazed if anything as radical as a side tank fitted E Class were to come to light - and given that the E CLass was redesigned in the 1940s my money would be on the class members being remarkably similar. I do not believe there is a list giving detail departures from the standard design. some design variations gave rise to partial G.A.s as noted in the drawing lists found on the NRM website. In fact these might be worth scrutinising for possible E Class content. Tony

Thank you all sharing this information!

I'm sure it is far too early to say what is next for Minerva after the Peckett, but - I do so hope there is a picture of it in this new book!

Looks like these Irlam tipples were used on the main line. I wonder if the S&L were only ever intended for private line use, and - if so - whether there were any differences between the two?

And in the photo of the derailment, the 31T wagons are without end beams - to make their height the same as the 20T wagon in the foreground maybe? I can't find any photos of the bigger wagons in use with the end beams fitted. Mark, I for one am keep to learn more about these S&L wagons, so do feel free to share any more info you might have please! Tony

I think this might give the reason for the end beams: they bring the height of the ends of the 20T wagons up to the same as the BR tipplers to facilitate tippler mechanism settings?

I'm at the back of the same class as you, D-U! Certainly seem to be some variations between the 20 and 30(31T?) wagons. Those images you just put up might be slightly lower sided, have fewer vertical body stanchions than the 31T, and no tie bar between axle guards. The lower body plating is different to 31T, having taller vertical section before the return with line of heavy bolts. The photo of the derailment shows a 20T wagon at the front but those at the rear seem to be the larger wagons so rakes were mixed? Interesting that some of the larger wagons have no end top channels - I would think these were intended as a replaceable wear beam to absorb damage from the tipper mechanism (I.e. they support the weight of wagons whilst being rotated). Maybe some were removed due to damage? Tony

Good close up of body side with plating variation here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-Colour-slide-S-L-RSHN-0-6-0ST-banking-at-Corby-Sold-with-copyright-/171741187171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fc928c63

Hang on a mo - there is another difference. Note there is no raised section on the top rails at the ends of the body. This could be another build maybe?

Her's a pic showing alternative location of ladder:

Thanks. I recently picked up an unused specimen. I have not as yet become familiar with 4Fs, but at first glance it looks a pretty decent model. Be interesting to discover what simple improvements can be made to enhance it. Tony

Great atmospheric image! What is the origin of your 4F - San Cheng?

Chaz - could I trouble you for the title of the bottom book with colour plates? (Also the top one please!). Lovely weathering. Thanks, Tony

According to an Oz steam website, Martin, that is No 2 (797 of 1902). It seems No 3 (854 of 1903) also survives: http://www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/1981/jun/ (see halfway down) P.S. Simon - the wheels weights are typical of Hunslet's early output.

Many thanks Chris - a copy of each just tracked down! Michael Welch's SOMERSET & DORSET SUNSET arrived yesterday - a lovely collection and at a really good price (18.99 8.99) direct from Book Law at present! Tony

May I ask which album Roy's photo comes from, Chris? I share your appreciation of colour photos, and have discovered some real gems of albums recently, e.g. Keith Pirt's work. Certainly developments in print technology in recent years have dramatically improved the quality of publications. Maybe even time to rework and reprint some older works?

In case anyone thinking this is totally unrealistic trackwork, just take a quick peek here - post 57: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28335-impetus-fowler-diesels-different-ways-to-build-a-collectible/page-3

WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!! (for us non-techie dinosaurs)

Your Fowler sound project is superb, Paul - but I have no experience of your steam work. For F key sounds, what about open cylinder drain cocks? I've not heard this before on a model but a vital part of steam operation. Other than that, for SHT locos maybe the sound of a Mk1 Ford Cortina side being slowly graunched would be appropriate?

Oh look - yet another candidate for Minerva's attentions , and in similar style to the SHT images, just a bit further inland: (Photo by Andy Kirkham - I hope repro here for educational purposes is ok. See http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/radyrtocaeharris.htmfor more info.)

Thanks Dave - much appreciated. I'm trying to learn more about the Welsh dock railway systems. I found the same photo that you gave to Chris, and which he posted in 76, by following your link to this which you posted in 52 - there are some more great images of S. Wales industrial in that collection too, well worth a look!

Further to this information, for the benefit of anyone else apart from me who has not read this book, I've just discovered that Powlesland & Mason too were shunting contractors at Swansea Docks. I had just assumed they operated a rail-connected business in the docks. More than just coincidence that both SHT, Rowlands and P&M chose the same class of locomotive? Is there a good book on Swansea Docks similar to the Nevill's Dock book?

Just wait for the aftermarket accessories - large diameter heads or even these:

John - before I put the works list away, PECTIN is a Class M5 - a smaller engine. No 1579 built 1921, supplied to British Aluminium Fife (their No. 2 I believe). Compared to the E's 3'7 wheels and 15 x 21 cylinders, the M5 has 2'9 wheels and 10 x 15 cylinders. Some useful comparison photos here`: http://www.martynban...ckett/locos.htm