MikeOxon

8 hours ago, crompton said:

Is the engine shed and turntable pit  the same one that was rediscovered when they were doing the Cross Rail works?

I agree with Annie that the rediscoveries were from a later period. The 'temporary' structures that I modelled were pretty comprehensively destroyed when the 'new' terminus was built in the 1850s.  It wasn't an 'evolutionary' development but a complete re-creation of the entire site.

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

I wonder if the pantechnicon was ever transported by rail as it would make a great wagon load.

I notice the sign-writing does say 'London Bath and Bristol by Rail', so I think a Road Van Truck is called for.

It looks a very striking model, Mikkel.  I expect Bailey & Sons were in competition with Knee Brothers of Bristol, who were already in the business, back in Broad Gauge days.

I suspect you have been economical with the truth about your negotiations with UNBRIDLED - I'm sure I heard comments about 4 horses for a fully loaded wagon.  A couple of chain horses should do the job:

Mike

17 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I would have another layout on my build list. 

This 'virtual' modelling is great for repetitive designs - I shudder to think of all the card-cutting and glueing that would be needed in the real world.

I am thinking, though, of using this method to try out ideas for a 'real' layout - it's easy to iron out problems digitally, before building anything.

'Stables' appear in the accounts right at the beginning of the works, so I suspect they were 'on-site' somewhere.  On the other hand, Janet Russell, in her book 'GW Horse Power' wrote: "The London horse stud relied on rented stable accommodation or elderly stalls at Smithfield and Poplar from which the horses had to be led before starting a day's work from Paddington station, a task carried out by the van lads. It was therefore proposed in 1875 that new stables for 120 horses should be erected as near Smithfield as possible" This proposal led to construction of the Mint Stables.

See this video for more about the Mint Stables.

Whatever was built initially must have rapidly become totally inadequate for the growing demand.

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Excellent work Mike.  An investigative industrial archaeology project with a great result.

Thank you Annie.  It caught my interest when I started to unravel the geometry of the structure.  I'm not sure, though, that I'll be able to do much more with the Paddington site, unless something turns up about the other buildings. 

The goods office looks as though it could be very similar to the one at Cheltenham that you showed in commenting on my previous post.  I don't like simply 'making up' buildings, without some reference to work from.  What also caught my interest at Paddington was the track layout, which looks very alien to modern eyes.  They were really having to feel their way when trying to cope with the requirements of those new-fangled railways 🙂

Mike

I always enjoy reading these 'worked examples', showing how you actually did things 🙂

11 hours ago, drduncan said:

I hope you'll write it up for the Broadsheet in due course.

That is my intention - eventually.  there's a lot more to do on the rest of the site, yet.

Mike

9 hours ago, Northroader said:

and one from the NRM, a contemporary? painting of the scene, one detail which might show how things were done is the smoke box doors opened, presumably to help the fire cool down and reduce boiler pressure?

This second one is the image I had in mind when I created my own view of the Arrivals platform, above. 

You are more charitable regarding the smokebox doors than I felt - I assumed it was what the artist thought went on behind the smokebox doors - which were, so far as I know, never like that!  In fact. I made my own version of that image, substituting my model of Firefly in place of the 'artist's impression'

My favourite part of the image is the pattern of shadows cast by the lanterns on the platform - very atmospheric 🙂

Mike

11 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Did they keep trains there until a platform was free and move the train across then?  The end loaded luggage wagons, were they loaded and then added to the train?

All good questions, Chris.  As I wrote in a reply to Annie above: "It was a steep learning curve for those working on the prototype".  No-one had built a railway terminus like this before.  Road coaches were loaded individually and I expected this influenced the way in which 'trains' were assembled.  When there were only a few trains a day, it probably worked for a while but, gradually, the methods evolved.  The later plans show that considerable changes had already been made by 1845, with additional arrival platforms.  Building a model like mine helps in visualising the problems they faced.

Mike

23 minutes ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

Hi Mike

do you draw each building as it’s own model and then bring each one into another assembly as I do or are you drawing the entire thing as one model?

 

 

I tend to use a mixture of both.  For the relatively simple items that I've produced so far, they are all in one model file.  I create them by extruding from 'canvases' in the appropriate planes and then move them around over the groundplane 'canvas'.  For more complex structures, I create them separately and use 'insert derive' to being them together for assembly.  This was how I brought in different models, such as the engine and carriages.

8 minutes ago, Long Line said:

Do you plan to include the stables, cattle sheds and grain stores which survived til closure of the goods depot?

 

'Plan' is not a word that applies to much of my modelling. 

At present, I'm thinking about the Engine House and Carriage shed to the West of Bishop's Road.  I haven't given any thoughts yet to the Goods Depot to the East but probably will 'one day'.  I am looking at the earliest period c.1840 and am not yet sure what facilities were there at the beginning.

13 hours ago, Annie said:

The NRCA were the source of the plans, but they were such a mixed up old lot of different amended versions it was difficult for Steve to tell what the GWR had actually intended for Cheltenham.

It's just the same in the case of Paddington.  Some plans were for designs that never materialised, while others show alterations that were made quite early on.  For example the arrangements on the Arrivals side were already changing by 1842.  It was a steep learning curve for those working on the prototype as well as those trying to model it 🙂

For those who haven't see this sort of thing, here's an example of what one has to work with:

Mike

2 hours ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

Doing the basics of buildings takes time but adding all small details and textures takes ages.

Indeed it does and I've done very little detailing so far.  The good thing though is that once the basics are in place, one can go on adding details as much as one feels like.  I have a lot to lean still about rendering and your results are inspirational 😃

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

How close can you zoom in, e.g. is it possible to stand beneath the canopies and look out at the track?

Very close indeed if you wish!  I haven't done very much detailing yet but here's a view from the Arrivals platform with 'Vulcan'.  It's great fun moving around to seek new angles 🙂

Eventually, the carriage shed and other building should be in the background.  As I said to David, I've a long way to go in learning the possibilities with this software.

Another potential application is to use it for planning the layout/diorama that I hope to build 'one day'

Mike

24 minutes ago, Annie said:

Another wonderful research project Mike.  Once again you've pulled together what remains in the way of fragments of information and pieced it together into an excellent article.

I'm very pleased you like my investigations into the earliest days of the GWR, Annie.  I can see that a lot of early Broad Gauge modelling has been done for the Trainz simulator and perhaps someone will follow up my findings to make a virtual working layout of Paddington.  It could be a great project.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

How very, very interesting.  I would have thought that the word 'box' would have meant a van, but no.  Also, how would the tilt wagons have got on going 20 mph, or did they not go even that fast?

 

Mind you, the picture of Paddington Station is very informative.  Having driven around the area several times to say it is different would be an understatement.

 

Just need to print them all now and make a railway.  😉

I think the term 'box' at that time covered a wide range of packages - what we would now call packing-cases.  The term indicated a general purpose wagon other than for bulk materials, such as ballast, coke, or coal.

In those days of no brakes and dumb buffers, I doubt a goods train would travel at much more than 12 mph.  Goods train passengers faced very long and slow journeys, compared to the 1st and 2nd classes!

The original 'temporary' Paddington Station had its offices and waiting rooms under the arches of Bishops Road bridge, with the platforms to the West of the bridge.  The present grand station was built in the area previously occupied by the goods sheds on the right of the painting.

16 minutes ago, Annie said:

Oh I very much like your variations on a theme Mike.  Excellent work.

 

Edit: L.Haghe's lithograph with its idly chatting footplate crew is amusing.

It's been interesting to create all these variations from the same basic design in the computer.  I'm rather enjoying working in the virtual world - it's a pity the Trainz modelling methods are incompatible..

I am thinking about creating more 'scenes' in Fusion 360 - I must look at possibilities for buildings next.  Perhaps it's related to my preference for still photography rather than video but I'm more interested in creating static scenes than in running trains.

That lithograph can only be described as fanciful. He seems to have only a passing knowledge of railway matters.

15 hours ago, Annie said:

It served to prompt me into digging out some of my Broad Gauge wagons by Steve Flanders.

Thank you for posting these @Annie.  It looks as though Steve Flanders was delving into this early BG period long before I got into it 🙂. 

In a comment on an earlier post you wrote "I can't help wondering how easy it might be to turn them into models for Trainz." - I could now ask the opposite: Could Steve's models be made '3D printable'?

While Steve's black ironwork looks good, most early painting instructions sent by GWR to contractors specify 'all-over' brown, on every part.  That made my 'rendering' very easy.

Mike

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I've become a bit puzzled by how the bearing springs work on these wagons. They appear to pass below the axleboxes

One advantage of underslung springs is that it can allow more suspension movement before the top of the axle-box hits the stops. 

In the early day of the GWR, the baulk road was not providing the smooth running that Brunel had promised.  Two remedies were tried: one was removing the piles that had been used to hold down the baulks - this gave more 'spring' to the track.  The other was to improve carriage suspension, with longer springs and greater movement.

An additional factor, which always concerned Victorian railway engineers was maintining a low centre of gravity to improve stability.  the underslung spring is better in this respect

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

There’s the Bourne litho of Bristol Goods:

 

These Bourne illustrations are often the only information we have, confirming the existence of variations amongst the early GWR wagons. 

These seen in the Bristol litho are a slightly later design, with narrower top planks and extended strouters supporting a top rail.  These were described as 'Utility Wagons' and were intended as multi-purpose wagons that could be used as Box or Tilt wagons or for goods passengers.  Both 4 wheel and 6 wheel versions were built.

There are plenty more BGS Data sheets for me to work my way through 🙂

My hope is that my posts will encourage others to have a go at creating their own models.  When I first started scratch-building, I thought it would be too difficult - I'm not a 'practical engineer' type of person. 

It was a pleasant surprise to find I could 'roll my own', initially with brass sheet and then with computer-controlled aids, leading me into 3D computer modelling.  It is my personal challenge to explore how to do these things.

I am pleased to be allowed to use Fusion 360 software at no charge, on the condition that it is for personal use only and non-commercial.  I don't wish to do anything that could jeopardise that concession.

All that is basically a long-winded way of saying 'no' - I have not considered distributing my models in any way.

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

....Will you be printing them?

As I replied to Annie, I have designed the parts so that they will be printable.  My current problem is that I already have more models than I can find uses for.  I keep toying with various layout plans but still cannot settle on a single idea 🙂

Mike

9 hours ago, Annie said:

Lovely 3D modelling work Mike and excellent research as always.

I must give credit to the painstaking research carried out by the late Eddy Brown.  His data sheets and the publication 'Broadsheet'  provide ample reasons for anyone interested in the period to join the Broad Gauge Society.

It was your thread, Annie, that made me realise how much of the pleasure of modelling can be gained through use of 3D-modelling software.  It provides the means to appreciate how these early designs developed from their road-vehicle origins into the styles that persisted well into the 20th century. 

I have laid out the parts in such a way that they will all be printable, once I decide what to do with them all!

Mike

One fundamental choice, which depends on how you view the hobby, is whether you intend to model things yourself or draw heavily on off-the-shelf and ready-to-run (RTR) items.  A lot depends on whether your interest centres on the modelling itself or on running trains.

1 hour ago, 45587 said:

Do you know if the cart wheels are available separately?

Langley have a selection of various types, sold in pairs - https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/search&search=wheel

A road coach really needs steerable front wheels and shafts, usually carried on a pivoting fore-carriage.  Also a seat for the coachman.  I have modelled Brunel's Britzka and described the various components of the fore-carriage. see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/blogs/entry/25349-brunels-britzka/

Mike

18 hours ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

I have been adding the windows to my model and getting the paint brush out.

For any model to look so good under close photographic scrutiny is remarkable - splendid work.🙂

My only concern is that your brickwork looks much more interesting than the real thing, seen on earlier photos in this thread, where the texture is far less pronounced.

13 hours ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

I have since cleaned the print up and trail fitted the laser cut windows which look amazing.

 

Sounds good.  I;d be interested to know more about how you prepare the artwork for 3D-printing brickwork