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I think the whole York mk3 suburban bodyshell is a miss.. look at a 455/9 a 318 and a 150.. and ignoring the underfloor plug in bits you’ll be hard to find much differences when new, and not much more over the years. A bit of thought on the roof / ends would tool a half dozen multiple unit classes from Bournemouth to Scotland.

Can you explain to me this… 1015 to Mallaig… theres nothing else off the Mallaig line since the 0815 to Mallaig. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C10932/2024-04-09/detailed It passes 1Y61 at Glenfinnan It passes (today only) the LSL working at Arisaig. Arrives 1230 Nothing happens at Mallaig until 1338 from Glasgow. departs 1410 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C10935/2024-04-09/detailed passes nothing, until arriving at 1603 at ftw, with a Mallaig departure at 1609. A 0930 from ftw wouldnt affect anything and allow an extra hour… A 1340 departure from Mallaig would add 30 minutes, or a 1310 departure, and pass at Arisaig would allow an hour, still leaving 40 mins to run round and water at Mallaig… something preserved lines and railtours can do in 15-20 mins. Surely an extra hour each way is enough to avoid rewriting the entire UK timetable as suggested ?

I was thrown from a seat at c90mph in around c500metres+ (google maps puts it at 380m from impact to stop), but we felt the brake / horn before the impact… that was enough to see standing passengers fly past me like ghosts floating down the landing, lots of colourful language, and kids fall off seats and big ones like me lift up, bags on floor, spilled drinks etc. Sadly the truck driver lost his life. i posted details of it, with pictures here… Fortunately everyone got themselves back on their feet, but to experience it was a bit more surprising as it was much more than I ever expected, especially as the inertia takes time for the train to slow down…thats what moved me ultimately as there was no recoil...once I was moving there was nothing pushing me back, In a car emergency stop, you jerk forwards, recoil and its over quite fast… i can only guess what a high impact crash would be like. By comparison, I have experienced a flying scotsman style buffering up at a preserved railway, and simply had the shove.., which just puts you a foot or two down the corridor from where you were previously standing, but your still standing, then laughing.

I like Herringbone on ANZ… Enjoyed an electric candle lit dinner, face to face with my other half on a flight to Auckland like that… then sat at the bar afterwards at 40k ft for a cocktail. Afterwards, I returned to my seat, loosely fastened my lap belt, as I never fly with it unbuckled…life experience as the unexpected has a habit of being unexpected, even lying down on a plane.. the lapbelt is loosely fastened.

Southwest airlines 737s used to do this on row 1. its quite a different take off experience, plus playing footsie with those in row 2 facing you. On a separate note but MDs also give throwing forward sensation on landing, as the reverse thrust is on the engines mounted at the rear of the fuselage… Tupolevs would also give you a bit of a thrill…

He didnt need to… he goes right up front for the action, and has an altogether different set of regulators red penned in his book.

seatbelt enforcement doesnt need to be mandatory. it isnt on airlines, except during take off and landing (and predicted turbulance). but does that excuse / negate need to make seated passengers safer ? Using cdl as an example, it only keeps those opening a door safer, those seated in the saloon it adds no value either. Turbulance is most often unexpected. For that reason airlines always reccomend having it loosely fastened…. suburban trains dont always go 100mph … the need on a slow train is low… but longer distance intercity….. does. but passengers will involuntarily move… I know because I did. walking wounded, whom with an airline style lap belt may not have been wounded. Airlines use a lap belt. A car style seatbelt would imo get a lot of resistance from use and i’m not sure the benefit… most train passengers, like airline and coach passengers have the rear of an airline seat to face.. car passengers have a front window and nothing stable to grab. All i’m saying is my own experience…. I know an airline lap belt would have stopped me going flying across a coach, and it needed it. Had the train derailed.. I wouldnt be here going against the establishment grain that I am 100% confident on. Chances are my body would have taken another passenger out with me, as i’ve not got my own wings and Ive learned I fly like a piano. it sounds like it maybe worth a revisit if the last study was based on Ford seat belts from the 1990’s… The world has moved on a bit, even long distance coaches in the 1990’s didnt have seatbelts back then, and have since adopted it.

Apologies I had to step away mid edit.. As someone involved in a fatal crash, back in 2008 in Europe, I was lifted from my seat (125kg of me) into the person in front, and it was no voluntary force, it took me, followed by luggage above. i also saw several limb and stomach/knee (stomach/knee to table interaction) injuries. I am surprised there is no conclusion on seatbelts not being of any benefit. This one was a simple emergency stop from c90mph… the standing simply flew down the aisles and landed on a heap. Those back facing to direction, seemed to feel nothing, apart from sudden intimacy from people like me joining them for a hug. Modern trains have much stronger braking ability than those of the 1990’s… I would be interested to read this research, if you have any pointers. I do personally feel an airline style lap belt would be safer…, especially on high acceleration/deceleration and high speed services… seatbelts on planes are really useful in turbulence, which isnt a too far dissimilar feeling to an emergency stop at high speed… the feeling of your bum defying gravity meeting resistance from your torso, before becoming a human spring.

Thank you a very informative reply.

I thought in relation to wcrc example a page back, non paying passengers can only be staff ? Do the royals double up to act as train guards ? The royal train carries a considerable amount of servants are these not royal household staff, rather than railway staff too ?

Were those researchers from the accountancy team by any chance ? I’m sorry the argument that everyone can assume the risk of death in a crash because it reduces revenue and increases inconvenience flies in the face of everything we are told the ORR is supposed to be for.. I dont see why seat belts couldn't be fitted and optional for use ?.. seatbelts arent revolutionary, and are not expensive… LNER are certainly moving towards an airline style all seated railway, maybe it time they upped safety too. Whilst accepting the partisan nature of this thread, those showing support for posts reducing safety, is exactly what it is…a show support for reducing safety on a thread debating challenging of safety by another operator… which I find hypocritical.. surely safety is safety, not selective safety to those in vogue vs those who arent.

How long did the Jacobite 100 page contract take to negotiate ? https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/consolidated-agreement-wcr-jacobite.pdf Looking inside the current one, It took from Feb to May 2020 just to approve what must have been a final version that started June 2020, that expires October 2024. A look at date references inside refers heavily to late 2018 / early 2019 dates, which may just be coincidence but may frame time periods it was put together, certainly very few 2020 references, beyond validity. Nothing moves fast in any government, railways in the UK are even worse. Even if this one was rolled over as a renewal, I cant imagine it taking less than 6 -12 months+ on top… so the wcrc Jacobite rebellion may have already been lost months ago, if not 12 months ago for all we know… we maybe just watching the shouting that follows. The current contract specifically mentions mk1 and mk2’s.. it maybe no coincidence we are seeing LSL with mk3’s this week.

it definitely feels like the battle for hearts and minds has begun. Never trust a journalist, they are your friend whilst the feed is good, once the feed stops, they turn against it and rip them apart to get a second helping of feed. This time next year business owners may be moaning the 3 day a week one daily premium jacobite costs too much and has driven away their customers to a greedy new operator that doesn't run as many trains.

I know were drifting ot on this but, Would seatbelt's help ? I have wondered by seatbelts havent been a thing on trains before… planes, cars, long distance coaches all have them.

I found Australia the worst, many years ago a mate sent a Hornby Great Gathering Bittern to Oz… Their customs opened the body to see what was inside using a screwdriver as a wedge to force it open and badly damaged the body and the chassis valve gear After finding nothing, they dropped the bits loose into the box and sent it on. The buyers picture was basically a cardboard box of bits and a ripped plastic body…. Nearly £300 notes wasted, and the seller lost their money to an ebay refund. It convinced me never to sell anything down under.

Her/His train doesnt have cdl either, nor do I see any exemptions for it.

On Claytons facebook page is some pictures at Scunthorpe, including pulling a not to shabby decent length train of wagons. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=928216422638561 theres a picture of them side by side too to a Norwegian Di8 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=928216445971892

I take it youve never been to an Airport, Office, Data Centre, School … Its is no different to cdl… it all leads back to a security office with centralised and individual lock/unlock, comms, alarms, card swipes, emergency break glass etc This isnt new revolutionary tech… cdl on a mk1 is nothing more than a modern office building on wheels… indeed you dont need half of what a modern building has either. it doesnt cost £30k to secure the doors in a shared office… unless your paying for 24/7 security as well. wcrc mk1’s only use 4 doors. Rather than Travis Perkins, maybe WCRC should upgrade to Wickes ?, the catalogs got more in it.

i was using my phone on 3g at a minimum or modem wifi using 802.11g underground later on all the ones listed 24 years+ ago to surf the net… the tech worked…ok it was low tech compared to today, often alt. Pages, mms etc, but it worked underground… I installed it on some of them so I should know… the HKG metro DC used the former BT phone exchange at Sha Tin station in Kowloon… it still had the the dotted “T” logo embossed into the concrete, bad practice stone floors.. 2g worked underground in 1992 for text and phone in Hong Kong’s metro, exited to the same building, some of it bakerlite equipment being ripped out went to the Hong Kong museum. Some of the very first Cisco 6509s were installed here in 2000.. later the backbone of the internet for the next decade worldwide. D Seoul might be the first wifi, as the iphone generation know it, but wireless data existed for many years before, even if loading a text web page crashed if an incoming call came.

Neither do airlines, which is why they sell it. but then here the passengers are too tight to pay for it too.

Belgium, Singapore, Hong Kong, Washington all had this nearly 3 decades ago. Its strange to see why the UK likes to be so backwards and resistant to accept modern technology. I remember 20 years ago the TV screen advertising that was flashing past outside the carriage windows in the tunnels of Hex and thinking the UK had finally come up with something cool in modern media… but it lasted what 6 months ? Inside tunnel advertising using screens seemed quite a cool idea (and captive audience) to me.

Will need to be 24 hours minimum, and in winter… some railtours can be very long endeavours, especially when something breaks.

Or perhaps its a PR stunt, and driver training / refresher work. They might have the coaches there but they are missing the headline act… the steam locos. I did note in the consist two FKs… but they now seem to be FO conversions…which makes not fitting cdl during there refurbishment even more bizarre.

Agreed, but wcrc has over 100 coaches, portioning the paperwork etc could divide the fixed costs quite considerably. That would be an advantage to wcrc over everyone else with a dozen coaches. thing if it is its really a fraction of what wcrc are quoting, it begs the question why fight it, its cheaper just to do it…. But equally why has so few others bothered to do it either, they might have exemptions and made promises to the ORR, but theyve still had 20 years to do it but keep pushing it out.

How are the £30k costs of cdl per coach calculated ? This outdoor gate has had a magnetic doorlock on it for over a decade that I know of.. https://www.securitysafetyproducts.co.uk/security/security-access-control/extra-strong-weatherproof-maglock-for-gates-and-external-doors.php I know the rail industry is full of bloat, ego and waste, but is this a case of the industry exploiting itself, or can it look outside itself for solutions like this, which cost £71 inc vat per door, so £210 per carriage… plus a few LEDs, a power source, emergency break glass and a wire to the brake coach ? I reckon finding suitable industrial use equipment for this shopping list could be sourced for a fraction of the numbers suggested. I know already its more complicated than that, and someone has to have their authority and you can only use suppliers who are mates of mates…. But even then it seems the real world has solutions the rail bubble doesnt… question is why cannot they be used ? Whats the other £29,500 ?