drduncan

I recall from Ian Rice’ book on finescale track construction that he felt it was the combination of pva with real stone ballast that was the problem. He advocated using ground foam and wood ash, I think. There are also natural (often nut based) ballasts that may help avoid the pva/granite concrete. For glue I’m intending to use copydex (rubber based) neat for track to track base and then diluted for the ballast - when I have summoned up the courage to stick down the track panels! Duncan

Not a scooby at the moment. The discussion on GWR modelling has been more red oxide than red but I think the BG boys and girls are in favour of a proper red - a bit like you painted yours. The contemporary description is along the lines of a cheerful red, so I’m warming (sorry) to a brighter red like yours. D

Strange you should ask… I’ve been collating information about the ex South Devon Railway iron bodied tilt wagons from the BG absorbed wagon stock book (to be found at the NRM - I photographed it a while ago) and there are a number that were converted to narrow gauge well before the end of BG in ‘92. Whether these tilt wagons are the same as the one I’ve got drawings for is another matter… There was a discussion involving @MikeOxon a few years ago about narrow gauge tilts including a photo of possible SG/narrowed tilt, but the great server meltdown probably did it in. However Mike might still have the photo somewhere. D

At the undercoat/primer stage now are a pair of GWR broad gauge 3 plank convertible wagons. The first is to lot osL345. The w irons are MJT bg ones, the buffer heads are MJT too, with the non reversible brake gear and lever from ABS (Modelstock). The body and buffer housings are 3D printed. The horse hook loop at the left hand end of the solebar is bent up from 0.3mm brass wire. The second one is to osL 369 - the only difference is instead of a horse hook loop the solebars have a series of rectangular holes with rounded corners. Again, as with the first wagon, w irons and buffers heads are MJT, brake gear ABS (Modelstock) and the body and buffer housings my own 3D prints. Incidentally, the tapered buffers have round bases not the later rectangular ones. The big question now is how red to make the red livery and is BG red different from GWR narrow gauge red? Regards Duncan

As the great server meltdown destroyed a lot of the photos early on in this thread, I though to reinstate some, but also enhance the back story for Nampara which has led me to post this new introduction (a blend of fact and fiction) - even though it is nowhere near the introduction to the thread! The origins of the line In the early 1850s, inspired by the onrushing (sic) progress of the Cornwall Railway, Sir Henry Poldark, son of the late Sir Ross, decided that his mining and associated ventures in the vicinity of the family seat at Nampara would benefit from connection to the national rail network, especially as hopes in the area that the Treffry tramways might reach the area had been dashed. The building of a railway from Nampara south towards Truro and both the West Cornwall Railway and Cornwall Railway was not just vanity - the continued success of the extensive mining ventures depended on reducing their costs - especially that of coal. Therefore a line from the harbour at Nampara to the various tin (to the southwest around St Annes), copper and lead mines running to the south east and east. Poldark agitated and pestered until he had sufficient interest in a scheme for a branch line from the Cornwall Railway just east of Truro to reach his land at Nampara, where he undertook to develop more suitable quays for the exporting of tin, copper and china clay that across an open beach. Work started on the line in 1858 and by 1862 was open for goods and passengers, with the Cornwall Railway undertaking to work the line. The stations at Idless and then at Callestick & Marazanvose - a station that the locals joked had a name as long as the railway that served it - could pass passenger and goods trains, while there was a smaller station at Chynoweth. Relations with neighbouring lines When the line was proposed it was opposed by the Treffey tramway (from Par to Newquay) who could recognize competition when it saw it (and later took an equally dim view of a another broad gauge intrusion, this time in the shape of the Newquay and Cornwall Junction Railway which was built from Burngallow towards St Dennis but only got as far as Napean before running out of money). Happily, the Treffey trustees were unsuccessful in the face of Sir Henry's determination and his railway to Nampara went ahead as he intended. When the Treffey tramway was rebuilt as the Cornwall Mineral Railway between 1873 and 1874 a branch was authorised from St Dennis junction to meet the Newquay and Cornwall Junction Railway (now part of the Cornwall Railway and the Associated Companies = GWR) and as part of the authorization it was agreed that not only would the line be mixed to St Dennis and even Newquay, but that the Treamble branch would be extended a couple of miles from the area of Shepherds to meet the Nampara Railway at a junction at Perranwell. From this point the Nampara railway would lay a narrow line to its harbour at Nampara and give the CMR running powers over the mixed portion only of the line. It was a nice bit of quid pro quo, but the CMR saw little value in actually doing their broad gauge bit of the agreement and after a salvo of lawyers had been unleashed on them in 1875 in order to get them to do something towards laying the broad gauge rail could only frustrate plans for mixed gauge from St Dennis to Newquay by laying the rail in such a way that it couldn't be used! Unfortunately for the Nampara Railway Sir Henry was a decent chap and had laid the narrow rail, making the line from Perranwell Junction to Nampara a mixed gauge line The line was, much to its promoters' relief a moderate success, and this helped it weather the county's banking crash in 1866. Indeed, in the mid 1870s the line was extended a short distance to serve an additional new quay. To get his own back on the CMR Sir Henry did not lay a narrow rail on all parts of the new quay extension, limiting the utility of the facilities for the CMR. With the collapse of the mineral trade shortly after the new quays were completed the CMR was leased to the GWR in 1877. With lower harbour duties than at Par and Newuqay, the link to the CMR actually allowed the Nampara line to poach traffic (especially China clay) from the CMR - much to that line's intense annoyance, but with no break of gauge to complain about opportunities for CMR petty revenge were limited. From the outset the line was worked by arrangement with the Associated Companies (ie GWR). Industry and Traffic on and along the line. However, the Nampara line fulfilled its promise of lower costs for the mines. More importantly, the mines remained an important source of traffic for the line - not just coal in, but also timber and machinery, while ore went out. The lower costs helped the copper mines in the area survive the collapse in copper mining in the late 1860s and early 1870s. Lead mining was also very important in the area by the mid nineteenth century - in fact in the area had the two most productive lead mines in the country - West Chiverton and East Wheal Rose. To consider East Wheal Rose (up the mixed gauge branch to the CMR0 between 1845 and 1885 it produced 48,200 tons of 62% lead ore, 212,700 ounces of silver and 280 tons of zinc ore and the savings in costs allowed to keep working despite an increasingly unfavourable economic climate in the 1880s and 1890s. Between 1859-1886, West Chiverton produced around 45,800 tons of lead ore, containing over 33,000 tons of lead and over 1.24 million ounces of silver, not to mention 22,676 tons of zinc ore and 15 tons of copper ore. Between 1863-1874 the mine paid £157,000 in dividends for a purchase price of £30,000. The line also allowed the development of lead smelting close to the mines, maximising the profits that could be realised - the unrefined ore commanding a much lower price than lead ingots. China clay, although not a product of the area, is a significant sourced of traffic on the line thanks to the lower harbour dues making it a more attarctive exporting point than Newuqay for traffic on the CMR lines, but with its broad gauge, it provided a handy outlet via Truro for the traffic from the china clay workings on the former Newquay and Cornwall Junction Railway. Fish was another stable of the line. Like St Ives further west, Nampara was saw considerable landing of fish, not just Pilchards, but others - most of which headed south as perishable traffic to Truro to join the express workings to the east and ultimately London. The line and its route. The terminus of the line at Nampara is constrained by the high ground inland and the sea. The result was a long thin set of facilities in three groups. At the farthest point of the line is the 1870s new quay extension. This consists of a pair of BG sidings and a pair of narrow (standard) gauge sidings as well as a loop. However, due to the poor relations with the CMR, a clause was inserted that only standard gauge engines owned by the harbour company (a separate concern to the Nampara line) were allowed onto the new quays extension. This clause has persisted into GWR leasing/ownership of the CMR with the result that the exCMR 1392 class engines (and others) cannot pass onto the new quay lines, while the board gauge engines can. The next group of facilities are centred on the station proper and the old harbour. The goods and loco facilitates for the station are a few yards further inland along the line. Fortunately, gentle curvature of the line as it approaches the station gives Nampara signal box a good sight line of the goods loop and engine shed and the outer home and ain to loop points are within the prescribed distance by the BoT so a second box is, at the moment, unnecessary. Nampara station signal diagram. Once out of Nampara the line heads south and about 1/2 a mile along the line is a set of sidings to serve the Lesiure groups of mines, before continuing to Perranwell Junction, where the mixed gauge line ends and standard gauge to the CMR diverges from broad and heads east. A couple of chains west of the junction there is a siding serving the New Chiverton Mine, and a few chains east of the junction on the standard gauge is a siding for North Chiverton. Heading south the now broad gauge line continues for about a mile before a lengthy siding serving West Chiverton and Wentworth Consols mine diverges. Another half a mile sees the first passing station, Callestick and Marazanvose. This station is not only a block post on the line and generating agricultural traffic for the line, but it has several sidings devoted for mines lying to the west of the valley. It is also the summit of the line. The line now falls towards Truro. About 1/4 of a mile south of Callestick, the line crosses the A30 at a level crossing, before arriving at the small station of Chynoweth. This station has a loop and siding for general merchandise - but a few chains further south along the line lies yet another siding serving the Garras mine. A mile further south of Chynoweth station is the station at Idless - the lines second passing point and again serving mines in the close area as well as the agricultural trade. And now The date is now 1891, and within a year the line will be converted to the Stephenson's narrower gauge.

But then for me, I find BR standard classes fall into the ‘oh no, not another one’ category - it’s all a matter of personal interest. 😀

I suppose it strange that Bachmann have not produced either a GWR Duke (they have the basic body already from the Earl) or a Bulldog (they have the chassis from the Earl). I imagine it is because scanning is a lot easier/cheaper than CADing from drawings and photos. Or perhaps the Earl was not a commercial success and has put them off. Mind you the City seemed to do well enough to emerge in several variants. Duncan

As you point out the body length is clear, but my question was whether anyone knew what the wheelbase was - which doesn’t appear on the panel with the other information. Happily skinnylinny’s thread may have the answer. D

Thank you. Most helpful. Duncan

Any more information about the wagon in the opening post such as builder or wheelbase? Also where did you find the photo? Regards Duncan

Excellent work. Duncan

I forgot to say - the rounded ended 3 plank is one of those with fitched under frames. D

Today’s print is for a GWR standard gauge rounded ended 3 plank wagon. It has been finished with ABS non reversible brake shoes and lever, plus tapered buffers to represent a wagon around the turn of the century. It terms of livery this one will be in red with G.W.R at the right hand end. Regards Duncan

Try https://www.modelstock.co.uk but the website is still being built. D

@MikeOxon Thanks for your comment and I hope they sell too! Regarding your question as to what is being bought in and what is being printed it depends (a good historian’s answer I know). What generally guides me is one of two things. First, what are the things I normally replace when building kits - buffers, vac pipes etc, brakes and brake levers usually. I also normally use etched W-irons. The second factor is what is available that I’d use. So if there is something available I’d tend to say in the instructions you’ll need x type of buffers (or whatever) and you can get them from here or here. Certainly, @Schooner found this helpful rather than just saying source your own. If something isn’t available - like today I noticed that late BG convertible wagons had round based tapered buffers but abs only do them with rectangular bases so that was a quick CAD design this afternoon - I’ll print it and include it in the box. So wooden shoed brake gear and curved levers get printed and included but straight levers and normal shoes are available from various sources so aren’t included. I know others include more, but I’m conscious that a lot of us are set in our ways (for example I don’t spring wagons, but do compensate them - well mostly - so someone including sprung w-irons is not a selling point for me as I’d just replace them) and given the post production faff for some fiddly items only for them not to be used is a bit of a waste of resource. Regards Duncan

Thanks Mikkel. I had to stop tinkering with the designs as I’m offering them for sale as scratch builder aids - they’re not complete kits as the purchaser can choose their own w-irons and variations of brake gear and buffers. One of the biggest tinkering points has been caused by the ride height difference between MJT w-irons (which don’t need soldering, so I’ve recommended them in the 3D print instructions to try to make scratch building with these as simple as possible for a beginner) and my usual choice of D&S ones from the EMGS. The solution involves a 20thou plasticard packing piece to fill the inset area of the floor to accommodate the taller MJT w-irons. I hadn’t actually noticed a difference in ride heights in my initial test builds it was @Schooner who spotted it - basically he did what I said, with what I said rather than raid the spares box (which is what I do!) A good friend - the owner of Modelstock - will be listing them on his website. Regards Duncan

Some more wagon rolling off the 3D production line… First off we have an undiagrammed GWR 3 plank wagon with fitched under frame, grease axleboxes and non reversible metal brake shoes: Next, a GWR 3 plank with iron under frames: And finally, a GWR early N6 loco coal wagon, again with grease axle boxes and non reversible brake shoes, but without the later side extension plates: Buffers, brake gear and brake levers for all three by ABS - now available again from https://www.modelstock.co.uk , w-irons from MJT Dart Castings https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2299.php More to come! D

I checked; it’s a 1:47 kit - is that close enough for government work at Netherport? D

any layout on this thing would have to be EM - P4 track wouldn’t be level enough and things would fall off… D

You don’t fancy doing a 3 masted schooner as well? D

Steve, Any updates ornew projects to show off? Duncan

Some photos of completed late Victorian GWR narrow gauge wagons. Here is a one plank wagon, early ribbed buffers, wooden brake shoes and curved brake lever, with a red oxide primer. This is an early 2 plank wagon with low sides and no doors. Again, with ribbed buffers, wooden brake shoes and curved brake lever. Both are using ex-D&S etched w irons. Duncan

Demonstrating 3D printing I didn’t stop until about 3.45. I even had to proffer excuses to one group of listeners in order to get my lunch before the excellent catering closed. I suppose demonstrators are doing something right if they don’t get to see the show! Again there was lots of interest (I wish I was getting a commission from Anycubic) ranging from what is it and how do I do it? To more detailed questions about software and specific design issues - as well as what can go wrong and why. It was, from start to finish an excellent day. Well done Dave and Jonathan. Duncan

Dear all, I’ll be demonstrating 3D printing again at the South Hants show at Admiral Lord Nelson’s School Portsmouth this Saturday 18 Nov. Do come along and say hello. Also Modelstock - the new owner of ABS Fourmost - will have on sale there my new range of resin printed GWR scratch builders aids to building 1, and 3 plank wagons as well as N6 loco coal wagons. Regards Duncan

Mine were self adhesive. Here is my printer tea cosy: And this is what it was made of: Regards Duncan