drduncan

Re 31401 onwards - I've had a look at the first 5 and the frames all are marked as wood with iron sole bar plates. I'll check the others and check back to you. Duncan

The lot in question was built at Swindon, if I recall correctly, I’m afraid. Tony’s book is full of useful information on the earlier 1 and 2 plank wagons. D

Does anyone know which lots, in addition to osL231 were fitted with fitched underframes (ie wooden underframes with iron cover plates)? Interestingly - and not very helpfully - the Wagon Stock Books I have seen covering the low numbers of osL231 do not say wood and iron underframes, just wood! Are the entries for nos 34001-34100 different? Regards Duncan

Model Stock, the new owners of ABS/Fourmost 4mm wagon kits and associated parts, will be at the SHMRC show at Admiral Lord Nelson’s School on Saturday 18 Nov. DrD

So, as a partial excuse for not posting for a while, I have been playing with a new printer - an Anycubic MonoX2. Some interesting findings: 1. It can accommodate 9 x 16ft (ish) long wagon bodies, if you print them at 45 degrees. 2. it is faster than my old photon mono. 3. Not only will it print 48ft coaches in a single print, but much to my surprise, it will do a 57ft coach at a 45 degree angle. It might even do 58ft one - if so lots of CADing GWR clerestories lies in my future. Duncan

Yes it is. I think there is a website being set up but I don’t have any details.

“Fourmost ABS (4mm wagon kit and associated parts) will be at the South Hants MRC show at Admiral Lord Nelson’s School on Saturday 18 November.” Duncan

I don’t know. I’ll ask. D

James @Edwardian, How is the single? Duncan

Shame. I thought it was the one useful contribution the felines made to the world.

Not my period - I tend to loose interest after 1914 but I’d be surprised if any Dean period low roofed coaches were in revenue service in 1949. Some might be in use as workmen’s trains but you’d have to check the coach registers to be sure unless anyone on here has researched these coaches specifically. But to answer your question: almost certainly the upper footboards which were fixed to the sole bars would be in place. The lower footboards, these were removed either from in front of the bogies, or between the bogies , or both in the years after WW1. You need a photo of your type of coach to see what was done I’m afraid - there is not to my knowledge a hard and fast rule or date. Are you a member of the Great Western Study Group and if yes have you asked on their IO groups - there are some extremely knowledgeable people lurking there! If no do think about joining… Regards Duncan

Great to see it on Saturday at Steam. Absolutely fantastic as a concept and the execution appeared faultless. Even no1 son was impressed (although he was disappointed not to see 4472 Flying Scotsman while he was being held up to see in but he can’t have everything…) Duncan

Actually I think some were branded ‘Fish traffic only’ rather than ‘milk and fish’ but I also remember seeing a 6w siphon so branded being loaded with milk churns, but I can’t remember where I saw it! D

If they do ask them to show their finished one…so we can play spot the difference… D

Probably a bit late now, but the K’s kit springs are too short. The should be 6ft (ish). The ones in the kit look like wagon ones in terms of length… Before I got seduced by broad gauge, I was doing what you intend for yours and concluded that is would be simpler to replace the chassis (which made sorting the 6w problem a bit easier - I decided on a brassmasters cleminson but MJT do a nice 6w solution.) Duncan

There is an important if little understood difference - even by those who should know better- between using a reference to find new material that either supports or disproves your supposition (reading it in other words and coming to a view) and mining references to bulk out your own (ie not reading the cited source)! I can think of one person in my field who is notorious for this. Indeed, I followed a few of his references back to the supposed document and found they didn’t say what he said - and others have found more subsequently… @Dave Hunt makes an important point about accessibility and my view is that writing style is the key here. I am certainly not advocating adopting an academic style or tone. Yes, I have read numerous extremely densely argued books and articles, but this was due to the writer’s use of English and structure of their work, not the rigour (or not) that lay behind their analysis. Some of them were extremely badly referenced too! On the plus side I can think a several engaging history books that are well referenced. So it’s not about being ‘academic’ or not in style it’s about more ‘showing your working’ so the reader can get the fullest picture about your analysis. I applaud anyone who is brave enough to share their knowledge (the publication process, editors, readers reports and, if done, peer review can be traumatic for even the hardiest writer!) My point is that whatever your style of writing - and the more accessible the better- referencing does not detract from this. I would argue that it enables your work to straddle audiences and that is good for all of us as we get more knowledge than just the writer’s wise words. In the days when I had students they would always ask how many references they had to do for their essays. I would tell them in answer that it depends…that their references are there to allow someone to find where they got their information from and any ideas that weren’t their own. In tutorials some would get quite offended when I would pull a book off the shelf they had claimed to face read and check it in front of them - I think they felt this was cheating by the staff. You could exclude commonly held information or views from this (ie the idea that Nazism is bad probably doesn’t need a reference - unless you are writing to educate an extreme right wing audience). However, as @Andy Hayter has intimated, and I know from my own experience, once you get into the sub disciplines what is commonly held by say, us GWR types might be a rather uncommon view to Stephen and his Midland acolytes, and worse, not what the actual documents (or photos) show! So what a knowledgeable writer on X railway topic thinks is common enough not to need a reference, I, in my profound ignorance and desire to learn from those who do know, would desperately wish did get a reference. If in doubt bung in the reference!!! Duncan

This discussion about veracity and completeness has touched a nerve in me - or spurred me to take a hobby horse of mine for a quick canter around the paddock: referencing, or the almost total lack of it whether footnotes or endnotes in what is sometimes called ‘enthusiast’ railway histories. Even well regarded periodicals are not without sin here - the GWR journal, for example, (and they were far from alone in this) very rarely felt the need to encourage its authors to demonstrate where their facts came from and which were unsubstantiated assertions. If authors referenced properly it would not only differentiate between ‘fact’ and opinion, but also to show what facts were based on primary sources and which were extracted from secondary sources, allowing them to be weighed and balanced by the reader. They also would show where the primary source was to be found - helping those researchers who follow the trail being blazed. Now I know most publishers hate any form of reference (some appear to consider indexes and bibliographies optional extras too) but as responsible researchers with a professional approach, when we put pen to paper we must reference. And as engaged readers we should demand bibliographies and references too from our authors and publishers. [In my professional life I spend a lot of time on my own references and chasing down other peoples so I do practice what I preach.] Hobby horse untacked, rubbed down and stable door shut… Duncan

A very interesting wagon. I don’t suppose you have any key dimensions such as length, wheelbase etc? Duncan

Love the photos! D

Thanks. I found that 3mm banana plugs worked perfectly. D

Me too - and from others in response to this post and a similar elsewhere. D

However, 7783 at 2’4” high sides could be a 3plank. It was built under lot 447 (don’t have the lot list to hand to confirm if 3 or 4 plank) built at Swindon in Aug 1888, iron u/f, fitted with oil ok axle boxes in Jun 1910. Became ballast wagon no 60016 in Nov 1936. Duncan

7784 was a 1 plank wagon I’m afraid… Duncan

James, Well done on your successful walk! Your perseverance reminded me of a walk around the toe of Cornwall my now wife and I did over a decade ago BC (Before Children) We took the train from Paddington to Penzance. Naturally I raved about all thing GWR and the stretch from Dawlish to Teignmouth as well as the Royal Albert bridge. Naturally she thought I was mad and a bit sad. We changed at St Erth for St Ives and arrived in beautiful weather. Refreshing ourselves with a lovely lunch at the Lifeboat Inn we set out along the coastal path. The view of Porthmeor beach and an almost colbalt blue sea was fantastic and we promised ourselves that we would come back to explore the town and to surf(well body board). As we walked along the well made path to the south headland guarding Porthmeor beach we had the first indication that all might not be smooth walking ahead. We saw coming the other way a pair of extremely hot and disgruntled looking cyclists. On rounding the headland we found out why. Confronting us was a c5 mile scramble across an extensive boulder field strewn across a 45 degree slope that led from the top of the 300 ft cliffs to the crest of the bluffs inland. The path, such that it was, meandered happy up and down this slope and only rarely made progress along the cliff top towards our accommodation at the Gunards Head pub. This was a surprise which the OS 1:25000 map had inexplicably glossed over. For variety the boulder field was occasionally pierced by steep ravines emptying streams down to the sea - which involved walking down a steep slope almost to sea level before climbing back up to the general line of the cliff tops. After several hours of this is was becoming painfully-very painfully clear- that out chances of making our table reservation was poor, despite ringing them to say we were still on the way. We decided to strike inland and follow a path that had not been laid out by a frustrated rollercoaster designer, Even so we arrived, hot and probably very smelly a couple of hours past our planned arrival and dinner time. The staff were fantastic. They shrugged off our offer to go straight through to the restaurant- in fact they were most insistent we took a few moments to clean ourselves up. So our dinner (delicious local seafood) was a far more pleasant affair than if we had dinner forthwith and we collapsed into bed ready for what could only be an easier day to follow. We were wrong. Whereas day 1 had been hot and brilliant sunshine, day 2 was at breakfast (a full Cornish to die for) best described as misty. On the plus side, the chef refused to countenance any suggestions as to what you might like for the Cornish breakfast - you ordered the breakfast and were extremely grateful and in fact just very full. This confused the American couple further along the table (there was only one table for breakfast) as they thought they, not chef, knew best. Going outside, however showed that the assessment of misty was a touch optimistic. It was thick fog - or more likely low cloud - along the cliff top path with strong wind and a great deal of moisture being thrown around. Progress was slow in the cloud as we tried to keep to the path. After the second time good fortune stopped us from stepping out onto a path that wasn’t there (but a fall of several hundred feet into the sea very definitely was) we again stuck inland past Pendeen Watch until we stumbled into the Queens Head pub at Bottalack for another very late but unbelievably good meal, although this lunch break was well behind where we hoped to be. Pushing on in better weather towards St Just until it was obvious that Sennen Cove was not getting much closer, we hopped on a bus though St Just and down into Sennen Cove, arriving at the Old Success Inn towards vespers. It was another beautiful meal (a theme of this walk I know) it was a painful crawl upstairs to bed. I don’t think I even had more than a couple of pints of bitter things were so sore. Day 3 was sunny, hot and perfect in all respects as we passed Lands End and I can’t reminder where we lunched - a tiny cove where we had sandwiches; a bit of a let down after the previous days. It was a relatively easy 8-10 miles into Mousehole - where another excellent dinner and bed awaited us. Our stay was somewhat spoilt by finding in our room a leaflet offering a service to take luggage or rucksacks on to a walker’s next accommodation point. Day 4 was again delightful and a very easy 3 miles or so into Penzance. We paused to pay our respects at the old Penlee lifeboat station.And then it was time for the London train where I again enthused about all things godly, western, and railway- however we took pains to ensure we sat at the opposite end of the coach to the luggage rack holding our rucksacks and some very smelly gear…. Duncan

I forgot you were at Warwickshire lad at one point. Wall must have been one of the few ‘interesting’ places my brother and I weren’t dragged to by our parents when we lived in Nuneaton. Duncan