ruggedpeak

And if we believe the comments above they can get bailiffs down to the train to keep people on it but can't get anyone there who can do anything useful.

1 train breaks down this morning and GA is in meltdown. And they let almost empty Norwich InterCity sets to carry on through and not pick up at Stratford despite crowded platforms.

The broken down Flirt has been dumped just city side of Stratford and the knock on from this morning's failure is causing cancellations this evening. Second night in a row after points failure last night. 10A is closed, presume Flirt is blocking the line?

It is becoming obvious that the solution is staring us in the face on the GEML and GA lines, which is to revert to something that worked for decades and still does today - Class 37 hauled passenger trains. Even better, flatten the Olympic Park and build a diesel depot to maintain them Back to the future.

Probably a good idea.

Yes, but enough about the HS2 management, what about those who object?

So you don't have any evidence then? The evidence that is apparently 'everywhere' but takes all night to find trawling the internet Anything to avoid providing anything credible to support the assertion about public gullibility. The harsh reality is that HS2 has consistently failed to act on NAO and other reports since it started, and is plagued by secrecy so no wonder it's credibility is in tatters. Anyone actually know what the cost of HS2 is officially? To finish it? HS2 certainly don't.

Funny, all the evidence is that the disasters that were supposed to befall us after the referendum were wrong. Consistently wrong. Still wrong. Very wrong. Documented and wrong.

So the public aren't gullible, only sections of the public. As for the costs, it is clear no one credible has confidence in the costs for HS2. Why should objectors have to provide a level of detail that HS2 itself can't do? Frankly laughable even before the sustained criticism of the cost management of HS2 and the culture of secrecy for a project funded by the public. All documented in detail by the NAO on various occasions.

When I said 'evidence' I meant actual evidence. Something with a bit of intellectual rigour.

Can you direct us to the 'ample evidence ' please? Evidence with a bit of rigour behind it.

And we get some GA/GEML 37 action following the departure of the DRS 37's. As both Bachmann and now Accurscale do Europhoenix 37's we just need need some unmotorised RTR FLIRT models to pull back and forth!

Missing the point entirely I'm afraid. You are looking at this as a railway project and perhaps if it had been managed competently then it might remain so. However we are well past that point. It is now whether unlimited amounts of taxpayers' money should be poured into a project with no clear cost or delivery date and an economic case with more holes in it than the average sieve. That is the decision that is required. It is not for those who are challenging a national infrastructure project to set out alternatives, that is government's job. There is near endless list of things that need addressing in the UK with major investment - lack of capacity on the WCML is just one and arguably not that critical outside the world of transport. That's the bigger picture, not the narrow focus on railways. The simple fact is HS2 supporters are struggling to explain a positive and viable case for the project. If the best they can do is say that HS2 has to go ahead unless critics come up with an alternative then the argument is already lost. And like the election it's now the media's fault - everyone's fault except HS2's management! Hilarious. The public aren't that gullible any more. The point remains in the bigger picture the case for HS2 is very weak. And responsibility for that rests with those running it.

The Channel Tunnel and Millenium Dome were financial failures - they are successful today because shareholders and taxpayers took the hit. Ask anyone who invested in the Chunnel shares initially. The Dome was a spectacular waste of money until it was turned into a properly run leisure venue, after we as taxpayers had paid for it to be built. As for the Olympics, well they were a huge success but at a huge social and economic cost, especially for those living in the shadow of them. Made the UK look great but for those who were "in the way" of it the Olympics were not good at all. I suggest researching the impact on local businesses and communities - dear old Seb Coe made local schools (in some of the most deprived areas of the UK) pay to have the 2012 Olympics mascots visit their schools. If trampling over the little people is your thing then HS2 is a great idea. As for HS2 opening in the 200th anniversary of the London to Birmingham, I will believe it when I see it. It will be late and the cost will be on its way towards £150bn+. £50 to a charity of your choice if it opens on time and less than £100bn. Save this thread for then.

Laurie and Cato Pass were at the Longfield show today, lots of interest from the younger attendees. He was showing them how his creations start with a basic loco like a 'Smokey Joe'. Certainly a possible entry point to the hobby.

Irresponsible at best to award contracts with high cancellation charges whilst project is reviewed. May turn out to be a big mistake later.

Why are HS2 supporters taking increasingly hysterical positions, as if cancellation of HS2 is the end of the world and no one will build anything ever again? And attributing to others things that are just silly? The idea that anyone who wants stop HS2 also wants to stop all projects is the sort of halfwitted nonsense we saw with Project Fear - and that failed spectacularly by alienating much of the non-hysterical public. It is delusional twaddle and smacks of desperation. Time to accept HS2 is a basket case of a project and its demise, if it happens, will be in part a direct result of poor management and appalling comms - even on here none of its supporters can make a simple, clear and coherent case for HS2 that actually makes sense. The fact some have resorted to insults shows just how badly the argument has been lost. Nothing helps kill a project in the public mind than its supporters going publicly batty and abusive. Ultimately it is a political decision that will cover a much bigger picture than being discussed on here. There are other pressing needs for investment across the UK , and the £15bn £36bn £56bn £80-100bn on this may well be better allocated elsewhere. Do we need to get north and south quicker, frankly no IMHO because all it will do is draw more people and resource towards the economic and political overcrowded centre of gravity of London and the SE. What areas north of Watford need first is proper investment in their local infrastructure so they can work more effectively. And more investment in core public services where £5bn is not "chicken feed" as some on here have suggested. Whether that happens is another matter.

So anyone who disagrees can't see the big picture that only HS2 true believers can see the "Truth" and the "big picture"? Right, whatever. Whether HS2 is or is not a good thing and should or should not proceed is a judgement call. It is not a scientific fact. When people start to believe in things with a religious fervour, can't comprehend why others may have another viewpoint and resort to calling things "stupid" etc then that is a good indicator that there is something seriously wrong. May be worth learning the lessons from recent political events about what happens when people become intolerant of other's viewpoints and assume only they know the "truth" and the right answer - they lose. HS2 is just a poorly run infrastructure project. But whether to cancel or not is a judgement call taking into account many variables beyond mythical benefits and "environmental mitigation". There is no right or wrong answer - anyone who thinks there is needs to get the bigger picture.

I think you reinforced my point by suggesting that HS2 should be sold to the public like a DFS sofa. That really is assuming people are stupid. By the way what are the monthly repayments on a £100bn train project and do I get 4 year's interest free credit? Will it affect my credit score if I apply? Is my home at risk if it's not completed on time? More importantly should I hold out for a 1 day only half price HS2 clearance sale?

The 1P53 1630 Norwich to Liverpool Street was a Flirt today, replacing a 90 and Mk3's. Shot through Stratford.

Agreed, I don't find it credible that they will invest time and money in 'defensive' design work to sit on the shelf. Their financial position means they need profitable products now.

And your post is typical of the example of the famous problem of people who dismiss large chunks of the UK population for not being as clever as them (or as clever as they think they are).

That's before the OO/EM/P4 debate.........

From today's Telegraph

For various reasons, such as much of the funding (in theory) is mostly from private sources, the CAA so far is keeping a tight lid on the overall cost and challenging HAL to stick to £14bn, and public perception of the benefits of expanding a global airport are greater than a slightly faster train line from London to Brum that costs more than the runway.