Adam

Right, after my slightly intemperate musings earlier - but really if using archival material you must cite the source - as this will help other researchers and allow them to check that what you say based on the sources is accurate. Ok, so that's a professional perspective, but it really does help. You might well find that what you're after is contained in the following archival references: TNA, RAIL 254/448 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4350291 TNA, RAIL 254/449 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4350292 Now I assume that these are bundles of cards in boxes - these are all a bit later (by several hundred years) than the kind of material I routinely handle when I go to Kew so may take a bit of searching through, but no matter. There may be more information, depending on how efficient the updating of records was for the last surviving locos in TNA, AN 7/117: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C586995 For reference, the RAIL series generally refers to pre-Nationalisation records, the AN to post-Nationalisation period (these series belong to the British Railways Board). TNA stands for The National Archives. Hope that helps, Adam

It’s pretty amazing that such a relatively well-known source type has been so comprehensively unreferenced for literally decades that someone like @Stationmaster didn’t know where they might be found. Ok, so railway authors are well known among other historians (declaring an interest that’s my day job), for this, but I still find that amazing. They’ll be somewhere in the RAIL 254 series based on a quick search of the catalogue. I’ll play with the advanced search later. Adam PS - these cards are presumably the main source for the various Irwell Press series on various classes, most quoted withdrawal dates and I’ve seen pictures of the things in print all without attribution with isn’t really on.

Interesting! I think we can discount any tramway connection - tram rail and wheels were quite different even away from street running. It’s likely to have been a catalogue item from one of the permanent way suppliers, TW Ward, Robert Hudson or someone of that ilk. The next road over appears to have concrete sleepers with a narrow section between pads and such items were not uncommon in industrial settings and were probably bought new, even if the rail wasn’t. Adam

The end is almost in sight! The last remaining detail parts will be a set of safety loops before moving on to reassembly and painting. So what's new? I've rebuilt the axleboxes (losing the nice moulded LNER lettering in the process), steps and some tiny door springs. Fiddly just about covers it, but I think it's worth it. Adam

Not quite like a Fruit D. As ever, there's a Paul Bartlett image (or two): https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e5d113ae https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e261ab53d Adam

Hi Jack, They're from Masokits - self assembly from flat etches - a bit tricky from New Zealand as Mike Clarke prefers to deal in Sterling cheques. There are ways around this, of course if you want to try them (you can DM me) and there are other sources of etched screw couplings (Rumney Models do some which are more adaptable but not quite such good value). Adam

Late last night I broke the back of perhaps the last really difficult job on this conversion, running the vac' pipe round the fixtures. I guess that its just about possible to modify a casting t do this, certainly at the platform end, but it you're going to make one, you may as well make both. The pipe is formed of several bits of 0.7mm brass wire, with fine electrical wire and bits of shim for detail and, in the case of the vac' cylinder end, to represent a join clearly visible of the real thing. This is much, much easier with a decent drawing as supplied in Southern Wagons volume 3; so often we have to guess the route the pipe took! I love how the pipe disappears under the headstock before popping up and heading off behind the side stanchions... ... and then turns left back towards the centre line and, through bends and elbows, is bracketed in place. Yes, the dummy for the bag really was supported like that (I cut the pipe overlong and then slotted the end with a fine blade in a piercing saw which gives an overlong bit of 0.3mm wire something to hold onto until the solder does its job. The next job is to knock up a replacement set of steps before thinking about how I'm going to lengthen the chutes underneath the thing - those on the Trout were shorter in real life. Adam

A little bit further - I've replaced the hopper supports at the outer end and the handrail stanchions to match. The vac' cylinder comes from an old Dapol Presflo that was started just before the Bachmann one turned up and needs plumbing in. The latter is no simple job as the pipe is in view above the solebar all the way along the wagon mostly without obvious means of support... Adam

I think you can probably make up 12 foot wheel base push rod brakes (the ‘Morton’ bit was the clutch which was patented: not common on 12’ web wagons*), from some of the etched in the AMBIS range, but that’d be an unholy fiddle. Guy Rixon has done the assemblies as a 3D print: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/guyrixon Not sure how easy it is getting things from Shapeways is right now, as I think they’re based in the EU, bu this is the only source I’m aware of. Adam * Some BR pipes had the clutch but I can’t think of any others. The RCH standard was the lifting link which fulfilled the same function.

Well, that *is* a pleasant surprise! Fantastic news. Adam

That sounds extremely Sentinel. I like it! However tricky it ends up being, I'll build one. Adam

Having finished titivating the hopper, I've made some tweaks to the chassis. The first one was to very carefully remove the brakeshoe mouldings with the tip of a scalpel. I then drilled out the hanger and stuck a bit of 0.45mm wire into the hole prior to drilling some new fixing holes in the chassis frame. Obviously as I work in EM this was to get them to line up with the wheels, but I'd have done this if it as staying in 00 so as to bring the shoes closer to the treads. Helpfully Paul Bartlett has some useful detail pictures of the BR Trout which was more or less the same below the solebar so I was able to base the brake yokes (Hornby have helpfully moulded holes in the back of the brake shoes) on those shown here: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/troutzfo/e18016132. The distinctive safety loops will go on later, but the next critical bits were the hopper supports and here the drawing in SR Wagons vol. 3 were invaluable, but apart from the lightening holes are a fairly simple bit of plastic cutting. I've added a few other solebar details and there's a few more to go, but just roughly mocked up, I think we're going in the right direction: That's all for now, Adam

Any better Mike? Door detail added, rivets still to come and then I can think about the chassis. Most of that is vac' fitting an unfitted vehicle. Tricky. Adam

At last Mike! Can't wait! Adam

A quick update on the Hornby Trout/SECR Ballast Hopper conversion. The doors are primed and fitted and re-filled (the first pass wasn't bad, but better is better). I think it's worth carrying on so the next stop is a coat of grey primer and some transfer rivets before sorting out the door catches and other detail. The chassis hasn't been untouched, but new buffers and couplings aren't as exciting as all that... Inside... and out: Adam

The complications are inevitable (but it does look good, thus far). I know that they weren’t remotely Western Section machines but I don’t suppose I’ll be able to resist. Lots of space for a good size flywheel in there... Adam

The main visual difference between the Trout and it's SE&CR forebear are some pressed drop flap doors and making these is a fiddle but visually crucial. Those of you into 3D printing are probably laughing already but I'm happy with plastic sheet and know how to make it do what I want (mostly). You should see the number of failures littering the workbench... So from the front, a layer of 20 thou' backed with bits of 10 thou' strip: This phase from the rear: The next phase is to add more relief. Pared back 25 thou' Evergreen rod gets the pressed frame and some shaped 30 thou' the centre panels. It now needs a witness coat of primer and some filler to tidy it up. I'm reasonably happy with these so far, but the reason there's three of them is that I'm probably wrong... Adam

Here's a Slovenian example: https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/UIC-letter-codes/E/Eas/i-QPwPcvg/A, and a couple from Croatia: https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/UIC-letter-codes/E/Eas/i-wgRGCWp/A https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/UIC-letter-codes/E/Eas/i-SPz7nhg/A Adam

You and me both. Adam

And now for something completely different. In 1911, the SE&CR acquired its first ballast hoppers supplementing its traditional flat bottomed, low-sided pens which, nonetheless, lasted in some numbers into the 1960s. These were curious things with three chutes to unload the ballast (just the one bottom door on the GWR P7) designed to be operated from track level and rightly reckoned to be sub-optimal from the user's point of view especially when the wagons were - as designed - unloaded in motion. In 1915 they added another train's worth of similar hoppers of 21T capacity with the operating wheels moved upward and a platform provided for the operator. Construction was by the Leeds Forge Co., and they seem to have been at least partially responsible for the design since they some very similar vehicles to others until their closure in 1929.* This sensible and much-safer set of features was later adopted by the SR on their later bogie hoppers but, through Leeds Forge's successor, Cammell Laird (later Met Camm), more very similar 4-wheeled vehicles were built for the LMS and LNER and by BR as the Catfish and Dogfish . Characteristic Swindon conservatism saw them get Met Camm to build their P22 design when the same company had a superior vehicle available for thirty-five years... Hornby, of course, have offered a moulded plastic version of the Trout and since examples of the second batch of SE&CR hoppers lasted into the '60s and there are pictures at Meldon which is the right end of the SR for me how could I resist? Getting hold of one has proved a bit tricky but a kind donation from @Enterprisingwestern has solved that and here we are. So apart from the lovely pressed steel side door (for copyright reasons you'll have to take my word for that unless to have a copy of An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons vol. 3 or the later Southern Wagons Pictorial) the main difference is the capacity and the consequent height of the hopper, roughly 6" lower on these early relatives. From a modelling point of view the difficult bit is the door but I have a plan for that. Here's the donor - sadly the nicely-moulded axlebox lettering has to go and the chutes are 2mm shorter than they should be (trainset wheels, but who can really tell), as do the buffers and bendy footsteps. Vacuum brakes and their associated fittings are to be added. About an hour's drastic surgery later... More later. Adam

Hi Tim, Nice work. You may feel it unnecessary, but the single biggest improvement that could be made to those Dogfish and Catfish would be substituting some etched handwheels. the real things are quite chunky so the ones to go for are the Stenson Models (ex-Colin Craig) examples: https://www.stensonmodels.co.uk/product-category/all-products/4mm-products/handwheels/ You can see the end result with these two (I'm sure I have some images of these fully weathered somewhere, but you get the effect). These particular Catfish are modelled examples loaned to the SR from the LMR based on some Dave Larkin pictures. Adam

Hi Justin, You’re right, the real thing was longer, a 12’ wheelbase but I like the smaller, shorter one you’ve done. There’s another version elsewhere on the forum:

You jammy beggar. I've no use for four of the things, but several of the SECR types - more or less identical but with rather cute dropside doors in the middle two panels - made it to BR and, well, it'd be rude not to do one. Adam

Not much later - the precursor of the Dogfish, Trout and Catfish designs was produced by Leeds Forge less than a decade afterward the P7 and at least some of those (some for the SECR, for example - that'd be a fun conversion from a Hornby Trout if I could lay hands on one) had vac' brake. There was at least one P7 rebuilt with a vac' cylinder at the end because there's a picture of it in MRJ 257. The P22s should never have been built in my view - especially as Met Camm that built most of them had inherited the Leeds Forge designs via Cammell Laird - but I've never understand the doings of Swindon... Adam

Graham - what retains the wheel set in this case is the wire spring - it’s attached by friction to the carrier and is held by the holes in - this particular instance - one of the hopper support ribs and another that’s folded out from the back of the solebar. The bridle has - or should have - no particular part to play, much like the real thing. I can’t say how well that works in 7mm but it seems to work fine in 4mm where the basic concept is more or less standard for wagon springing. Adam