turbos

As I said in Jonathan’s Obituary I’d get some photos of ‘Finnsbay’ in its current and final state, sorry it’s taken so long put pandemic lockdown got in the way.

Looking through all those various combinations of layouts that Swindon produced it’s more of a question of which seating layouts they didn’t come up with, were they trying to cover every conceivable permutation or was someone in the drawing office trying to justify their job? Brian.

Pullman were obviously one of if not the earliest centre aisle coaches in the UK, but they were designed for Steward served food and drink consumption in luxury, their coupes also tick the compartments box. The OP question was about Third class corridor vs open centre aisle, the Caledonian Diagram 90 and 91 do appear to be the first real attempt at introducing the centre aisle to Third class general use with a corridor comparison. Brian.

Yes. the open design goes back to the introduction of on board dining but, the Caledonian Diagram 91 was not built as a diner but as a general use coach. It’s interior layout has more in common with the open plan, door at every bay Multiple Unit of the 1960s. The point I was trying to make was that even in the pre-grouping period the railway companies were trying to get as many people into the available space while still giving them what were the latest advances in onboard amenities. Brian.

The Corridor vs. Open seating arrangement argument pre-dates the BR Mk1 by half a century. Between 1901 and 1904 the Caledonian Railway built four designs of 50ft gangwayed bogie coaches, these were the final development of a design that can be traced back to the Caledonians very first bogie coaches of 1887. The 50ft Third class coaches were built to two different designs, the Diagram 90 had a side corridor, seven compartments, a lavatory at either end and seated 56 passengers. The second Third class design, the Diagram 91, had a centre aisle, seven and a half bays, two centrally positioned lavatories and seated 60 passengers. They were numbered 979, 980 and 982. The interior of No. 982 is in the attached picture. The ‘full bays’ all had doors whereas the ‘half bays’ which were at the end of the coach facing the bulkhead did not have doors. I guess the ‘half bays’ were an early ‘Airline’ style seat long before the word Airline or even air travel existed. They were dual braked, steam heated and electrically lit and must have appeared very futuristic alongside the typical unheated, gas lit 6 wheelers that were still commonly found. ’The Railway Engineer’ described them: We know of only a few ‘thirds’ which could be ranked with the new Caledonian carriages, and of none that surpass them. Economy of space ... has now become a factor of the highest importance, and in the plan of these carriages no space at all has been wasted.’ Only three of each diagram were originally built, but a further three Diagram 90 corridor Thirds were built in 1903. The ‘open’ design was not considered a success as the travelling public probably found them noisy, drafty and lacking privacy. No further ‘open’ designs were built by the Caledonian. In 1916 the three Diagram 91 open Thirds were modified to form part of the Caledonian Railway Ambulance Train. Brian.

Nice! I also did similar work at the start of the pandemic to the Triang Hornby Caley Brake Composite, using the Dapol/Hornby Diner for the bogies, roof, ends and some underframe details. The Triang Mk1 underframe needs a fair bit of butchery to get it looking and running right, fortunately it’s a solid lump of plastic. It was my very first attempt at reworking, detailing and painting a coach. Brian.

Aberdour Castle is beside Aberdour Station and the ECML, and also in Fife, Rosyth Castle is across the road from where the Rosyth Royal Dockyard halt platform was. Brian.

The Caledonian Railway had close coupled 4 wheel coaches on the Cathcart Circle, using a centre buffer coupler (see pic of the Plan Drawing). The coaches were 1ft 6 3/4 inches between headstocks and were semi-permanently coupled in 8 coach sets, composed of three Firsts, three Thirds and a Brake Third at each end. Brian.

Hornby have a long history of producing Caledonian liveried coaches, I would be surprised if they don’t produce their new 4 and 6 wheel coaches in a Caledonian livery in the next couple of years releases. The next question is will Hornby get the livery right if they do? Caledonian 4 and 6 wheel coaches of this period had different liveries. I too looked at the LNWR coaches to see if I could ‘Caledonianise’ them, but concluded that it defeats the purpose of generic coaches in correct liveries if you have to modify a coach into a compromise livery. I do think Hornby have made an admirable attempt at LNWR livery that looks better on the model than the official pictures show. Just my thoughts on this subject. Brian.

I agree the yellow is a bit bright but so are the greens and grey and even the black! A good layer of Midland Grime is what it needs. Lovely model. Brian.

They also have a Caledonian look with the end window arrangement. Diagram 3 Brake Third 4 wheel coach on the right, in Glasgow Central on a Cathcart Circle train. Brian.

The Chivers Diagram 1/120 MDV kit is now produced by Five79 kits. All of the above kits are ideal for adding a bit of variety into the r-t-r rakes. Brian.

Peco Parkside make two MDO kits, the riveted 21t mineral and the 1970’s rebodied 21t mineral. Nice wee kits that go together quite easily, a picture of some I’ve made.

Fortunately it’s a separately fitted part that should be on its own bag in the box. Great opportunity for someone to sell a more representative looking alternative. Brian.

The height of the Hornby footboard is highlighted here, a possible opening for some etched brass alternatives? Brian.

I see, to much thread drift to keep up with it all.

I’m guessing that’s a typo for the Diagram number as that would be a bit more than a ‘very easy bodge’ turning a 24’ 4 wheel Full Brake into a 48’ bogied 6-compartment Brake Third! The Hornby 4 wheel Full Brake is a passable representation of a Caledonian Railway Diagram 4 Passenger Brake Van, the LNWR version could be a good choice for a full passenger livery version going by the comments on the colour shades Hornby appear to have chosen. Brian.

It also gives Hatton’s the retail knowledge of how well each livery is selling and whether any cancelled Genesis orders are buying the Hornby offerings instead. If I was Hatton’s, I’d be setting my websites algorithms to plonk a Genesis advert at the top and bottom of the Hornby coaches pages, you’d be surprised at how many railway modellers are oblivious about new and forthcoming releases. Brian.

Which makes it a poor attempt at LNWR livery then! Brian.

I’m underwhelmed with these coaches, Hornby could’ve done a more different generic pre-grouping than the Hattons Genesis coaches. The NBR livery isn’t in the Genesis range so is justifiable to go with the 0-6-0 ‘Maude’. Why do LNWR livery which doesn’t suit these coaches when there are plenty of never been announced or produced pre-grouping liveries available. The real test will be which manufacturer gets the 6 wheel chassis to work the best will be the winner in my opinion. It will also be interesting to see which LNER livery sells best, the more historically correct or the more aesthetically pleasing? Good luck to both Hattons and Hornby, I hope they both ranges sell well and gets enough interest in pre-grouping for more correct rtr pre-grouping rolling stock. Brian.

HA19 (the 26th set) was accepted by ScotRail on Friday 18/12 at Doncaster, vehicles are TGFB 40619, TSD 42255, TS 42568 and TSL 42256. This completes the 4 coach sets for ScotRail, the delivery is so far behind the original schedule and every other target date set I’ve lost track of how late if is, I guess it’s years. HA19 along with Power Cars 43124 and 43148 are staying at Doncaster until late January for 5th trailer testing. No further information on HA22, replacement looks less likely as time goes on. Brian.

Sorry for my somewhat cryptic post, I’d been out for a walk after lunch and had been pondering why a rtr LNWR Precedent had never been made, (and various other questions that pop into my head). A somewhat surreal moment when I sat down with a cup of tea after my walk and looked at RMWeb only to discover this announcement, some of my train of thought from my earlier walk was in my post. We’re now only a couple of Pre-Grouping rtr model locos away from having all the 1888 ‘Race to the North’ types having been made. Great announcement! Brian.

I’ve always wondered why the most numerous class of British steam locomotive never had an rtr model ever made, particularly as there’s a survivor. I wonder if the second most numerous class of British steam locomotive will ever have a rtr model made? Although it’s in my time period it’s not my Pre-grouping company. Good luck to Rails, Bachmann and Locomotion, I hope it sells well. Brian.

Finished my Triang Mk1 BFK this afternoon. Brian.