harris0169

3 hours ago, JimRead said:

Hello Andy,

 

I don't mind a bit of drift at all, it's all very interesting. 

Yes indeed it was John Fownes, I liked the way he blagged the kit manufacturers to sell him lots of useful bits.

He once accepted a challenge to make a loco and have it running in one day.

He uses 0.9mm card from Rymans for bodies and chassis.

Interesting links thanks for sharing them.

 

Cheers - Jim

Thanks Jim for confirming. The biggest thing with cardboard modelling of locos and chassis, is trying to find the details.  This is why I appreciate that you have posted so much about the skills and knowledge you have developed and acquired so that others - well me -  can have a go and develop their (my) skills too.  I did contact John by text a year and possibly a bit ago to see if I could find anymore information which I shoulda followed up with a call I guess when I didn't hear back. 

Anyway - I have you in the here and now so that'll do nicely! Along with @cornamuse and @Annie too.

All the best

Andy

On 17/02/2024 at 13:48, JimRead said:

Hello T,

It was not Peter I've not seen his stuff , but then I never buy magazines. :-)

Is he on RMW?

I think the one I know was a member of an RMClub in Nottingham on the right as you go into Nottingham on the A60, Woodborough? [edit] Woodthorpe they used to have a site looks as though that's gone. Blogger is much better and can be turned into one easily and it's Free  Yippee :-)

Cheers - Jim

Hi @JimRead

Don't want to cause thread drift...yet here it comes (!)....Was it John Fownes (who I think we spoke about)? When trying to find out more about the cardboard locos I did find this article:

https://issuu.com/mortons-digital/docs/rmm007 

on page 56/57

And I think Phil Parker mentions the team at the Club here:

https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2015/06/#:~:text=slice or two...-,One,-very unusual demo

and the link in Phil's post has one save on Wayback Machine/internet archive here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160418021844/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/instalek/cardboard.htm

How did my Sherlock sleuthing go?

All the best

Andy

Totally brilliant.  👍

Ahhhh...just seen in one of the photos there is a "skirts" version Fairlie type.... 

And this crazy Doo-dah (with covers like you show in your picture:

...Don't envy your choices! 

All the best

Andy

Definitely agree on showing the motion. Even if it's just the coupling rods to start with.  I think it adds to the view experience seeing things moving around.

Tyler Falls Greendale double Fairlie for inspiration perhaps?:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1774508726114661/search/?q=fairley

(Hope the link works)

And a quick snapshot here:

Cheers

Andy

Hi @JimRead - I haven't glued proprietry track but I keep looking at what people do because I want to fix it to Foam. And want track with tight radius which tends to mean it needs fixing well. Haven't really seen answers covering both aspects. 

Here's some ideas...

People do seem to use both PVA and Copydex. In this thread there are some ideas about it.  Quite like the idea in there of wide head pins/tacks to allow adjustment of alignments of track.

https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=40066

Also there is someone who uses Aleene's Tacky Glue here:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/laying-track-with-glue-12192594?pid=1331025468

Another thought is to use Impact adhesive...In that direct Email I sent you recently I didn't clarify the glue but it was impact adhesive. Which can apparently be reactivated with heat from a soldering iron...not going to work on a plastic commercial track base obviously!

The other thing I thought was if you wanted to use track pins you could glue thin wood (lolly sticks cut up?) under the cardboard baseboard at the places where you want to pin. Then predrill the hole with a pin chuck and push in pins.  I normally use this method with a traditional wooden top baseboard if I don't want track glued permanently)  You could also use this method if you want to solder ends of rail. Maurice Deane (of the Dean pattern Fiddle yard) soldered rail to Gimp pins with heads cut off on one of his layouts.

OK...Apologies that I have not tried any of these myself so there is not real life experience.  And I haven't really seen anything to say how to glue tight radius curves without pre-bending rail - and even then I've only guessed this is what was done.  I have info on simple railbenders as well if needed.

Cheers

Andy

The building looks great.  Very cleverly done in my opinion.

Andy

Yes

I'm not quite sure what he means by shellac making it "hard and crispy".  All the things about shellac and card is it makes card "hard" and therefore stronger. Who knows...it's tantalising being on the edge of nearly knowing what works for someone and why. Point is I think shellac, polyurethane varnish or paint sound like good options which may do different things and end up the giving the desired outcome... ie a model that is wanted that will stand the test of time! 😀

Is it time to throw in that I have also seen the use of PVA to create hardening and read about emulsion paint too?

PVA at about 3min 30s of this

And emulsion paint mentioned on page 3 paragraph 6 here:

https://tlrs.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Terry_Russell_Tramcar_modelling_in_O_gauge.pdf

And of course superglue is suggested on internet to soak into edges you might want to file...(and apparently shellac too?)

So...pick your poison.

I'm going to start with shellac because I have it and apparently soaks into card well. Also the lack of water in it sounds like a good thing.

I did a quick search just now and there are quite a few posts on here in relation to shellac...

Also doing a quick search for a comment I found before on polyurethane varnish I found this comment which whilst it is aimed at a model's finish could help with a formula for card perhaps?....

all just stuff I'm afraid...Proof in the pudding 

All the best

Andy 

PS: this is also a good (short, tantilising) read... John Fownes doesn't use Shellac but just cheap spray paints form "pound-type" stores (well the article mentions Wilko):

https://issuu.com/mortons-digital/docs/rmm007

page 56/57

This is the only article I can find on John's work with any detail.

Phil Parker shows a picture of his work in this post:

https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2015/06/great-central-railway-model-event-2015.html

And there is this page I wrenched out of the Internet Archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160418021844/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/instalek/cardboard.htm

Cheers

Andy

40 minutes ago, Porkscratching said:

I seem to recall reading somewhere that French polish or button polish etc  wasn't good for some reason, and the pukka shellac comes in reconstitutable flakes. Isn't it ground up bits of old insects or something? 

Tbh I'd rather do the polyurethane thing which is certainly spirit not water based. 

I think you are right. Some come with additives eg: linseed oil to help with getting it onto the piece.  This one doesn't seem to...(random search)...
https://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/b/BUTTON_POLISH/

Suffice to say I am not  experienced with shellac...it is on my list of things to try...I'm just a google jockey.  Shellac flakes (from reading around) are indeed a product of insects ... "shellac, commercial resin marketed in the form of amber flakes, made from the secretions of the lac insect, a tiny scale insect, Laccifer lacca "

(from a random search: https://www.britannica.com/topic/shellac#:~:text=shellac%2C commercial resin marketed in,becomes rigid at room temperature.)

Shellac is thinned with meths which I think helps with (lack of) warping.

As well as Jim Reid's use of Shellac there is an article here by the late Colin Binnie on card coaches....

https://www.colinbinnie.com/card-coach.html

And there is a copy of E. Rankine Gray's Cardborad rolling Stock on Jim's site on this page:

https://ogaugemicro.blogspot.com/p/links.html

I have been trying to collect as many resources as I can on card railway modelling.  I have loads of card generated from everyday living. I think also I can see why plasticard was such a great hit when it came about when you look at how card has to be "treated" to be able to model with and protect it. But I still like the idea of using it.

All the best

Andy 

Folks have mentioned Button Polish as a "ready made" shellac (along with French polish, acklnowledging St Enodoc). 

Cheers

Andy

Hi Annie

Was the polyurethane varnish solvent or water based do you know?  Just thinking about warping of card with water-based anything.

I bought some shellac flakes from ebay to add to my stockpile of materials for card modelling a-la-Jim Reid and Cornamuse.

All the best 

Andy

Hi Ian. 

Good calculatin'! Nothing like some good old brain training! Love a bit of Legal paper 😊

Thing is, that just makes it plain weird. 

I don't understand how 2 tracks don't make it through the opening. Perhaps because the 7mm track is approx double the width of 4mm track and the opening is only 7/4 bigger?

I think that's possibly it. 

Anyway, it is what it is. 

Thanks Ian for the reply. 

Edit....

Aha!  @brossardnoticed the same and reduced the width of the central pillar....

All the best.

Andy

Hi @Ian Holmes

That's a bit weird...Possibly two things...

1. I measured the kit part I have - Structure C page 21 of the parts.  Is this what you get (approx) for the width and height of openings?:

Large opening....81.5mm 4mm scale -> 142.6mm O scale ( by multiplying 7/4)

Smaller opening....42.5 in 4mm scale -> 74.4mm in O scale

Height of opening 54mm in 4mm -> 98mm in O scale

2, Secondly in the suggesting in the kit the point is a Y (Which might make a difference) and probably more impacting, the second line into the large opening comes off the front track.  This allows the tracks to converge before going into the large opening. It seems that with the point on the rails feeding the large opening the tracks diverge too much.

You could also reverse the buildings so the large opening is to the left side and then the Left hand point would be straight through down the canal at the front into  the small opening and then diverge off to  the left to feed one side of the large opening...hope that makes sense...probably need a diagram....here's a mashup...I don't have photoshop...this is mangled with Powepoint!

The back track then could be curved towards the exit of the Fiddle yard to make it less boring  (actually on second thought I like it - could even be a separate feeder line - with/without running rights over the other lines etc etc)...

All the best 

Andy

5 hours ago, Ian Holmes said:

Thanks for the link.

There’s some good information there. I’m thinking that rather than do an exact blow up of the plan to 0 scale, (which appears to be how that project started). I’m planning to let the buildings fit the geometry of the PECO track I have.

We’ll see how things progress.

 

Ian

Sounds like a plan 😊

Will be interesting to see what mods to the standard design you might make to do this.  

 Should be good fun...

All the best

Andy

Hi Ian

I'm glad you're doing this.

@brossard was working on this in O as well...here's the link. Looking forward to following progress!

All the best

Andy

1 hour ago, cornamuse said:

Weirdly, just ordered about a mile of pale blue cloth to replace it.. it’s too long to paint effectively, without expensive boards and fittings. I’m putting curtains at the front too, so it should look a lot neater and less fussy. I felt the 3d stuff was getting lost 

That makes perfect sense. I reckon your new plan will work well.

All the best. 

Andy

47 minutes ago, cornamuse said:

Love this; new sky is very effective, and has convinced me to go paler.. the overgrown track is great, too.

 

your trams rock, I love all the varieties 

Ahhh, you see I like your backscene too and the blue cloudy sky and trees....I was only going through your posts the other day to get an understanding of how you did it.  And Neil's is great too.  I think I just like you arty guys.

All the best

Andy 

On 02/12/2022 at 15:18, PaulRhB said:

I took some aerial photos of the layout and from the plans in the RM for mk2 I’m guessing the two station boards are about 6ft x 1 ½ft and the whole layout around 12x 7ft?

If anyone knows I’d be interested to know the actual dimensions so I can add a scale to the plan when I stitch them together. 
The plan in BRM suggests 10 by 8 ½ ft but it’s proportions don’t match the photos I took so I’m a bit wary of it’s accuracy!

 

I kinda bumbled into this thread and haven't read it all so apologies if these links have already been mentioned...

This one has a plan of MkII 

https://trlottte.com/ffarquharII.htm

And this one mentions the board sizes..

https://trlottte.com/rm-1968-01.htm

...scroll down to the words "First, Ffarquhar Rebuilt"

These pages seem to be resurrected because the site they came from went offline...might be worth saving the content. There are also links to MkI and also building Toby article. 

I think this helps 😃

Andy

16 hours ago, Marly51 said:

 

Thanks Andy.... just found I still had my emails to Phil with CakeBox entry photos still attached! Will try to add in some additional photos to the other posts.

 

Marlyn

Brilliant...glad you found them!

All the best

Andy

Hi @Marly51

I thought I had saved your pages but it seems like i haven't. If I have downloaded any of the photos and I find them I'll let you know. 

Cheers

Andy

On 07/08/2022 at 22:39, NeilHB said:

Plenty of progress to report on “St Machan” over the last couple of days. 
 

All beading was completed, and (thanks to a suggestion from Mr Young), No.4 was used as a prototype to trial some steps out:

 

 

These worked nicely so I started retro-fitting them to No.2 “Sigrid”:

Just the other side to do, before a trip to the paintshop and then No.1 can be sorted. No.3 will be tackled when she returns from being sound fitted. 

Having got all of the major bodywork completed on No.4, it paid a visit to the paintshop this afternoon for its first coat of ETCo Indian Red:

 

Next comes the fun task of sorting the roof out, but that will have to wait until my restock of glue has arrived. 

 

The steps look really good - nice technique to craft them - I've made a note so I can use the idea - thanks for showing/sharing this.

Cheers

Andy

Hi there

I found it here if anyone wants it too:

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/members-area/kids/kids-industrial-revolution/kids-stott-park/
Seems like you may not need to be a member since it worked for me and I'm not.

Don't forget though kids :

"Ask an adult to download the template and print it out for you, then you can follow the instructions below to build the mill.

Once you’ve completed it, put your model on display to impress your friends"

Thanks for the info @john new - Appreciated

All the best - have a great weekend

Andy

Quote

 

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for adding that @harris0169. I ought to go back and reinstate some of the lost photos, but I’m afraid life is too short!

 

It actually changed slightly in the good yard for the final iteration. So here is the final track plan as laid.

 

 

Now that we’ve had a couple of running sessions, I feel confident that we’ve got a good plan, both for operator interest and for keeping trains running when we exhibit it.

 

 

 

 

That's great to see the latest...

I agree that life is too short to repost photos...just need to keep moving forward I guess. 

All the best

On 21/12/2020 at 21:22, thegreenhowards said:

This thread will be a diary of the construction of a new 0 gauge layout by the East Surrey Model Railway Club, based in Merstham. It will be our first venture into 0 gauge for many years so many of us will be on a steep learning curve but we're looking forward to it.

 

The design requirements were:

1.      Needs to be capable of being set up quickly in the main clubroom away from those working on our other layouts.  It would need to be put away at the end of the evening to free the space for our main social and running evening.

2.      It should provide something different from our two 00 gauge layouts, one is a 'roundy roundy' and the other a Branch Line Terminus.

3.      It should be exhibitable.

4.      All rolling stock to be owned by members as for all our layouts.

5.      Create a plausible setting for existing members’ rolling stock.

6.      Allow us to try out new modelling methods and technologies.

 

With these design criteria we developed a plan based on the classic 00-gauge Minories design from 1957 by Cyril Freezer (former editor of Railway Modeller). Obviously done in 0 gauge it will be significantly larger and there was a desire for more goods action than the original Minories offered so we have ended up with the plan below.

 

The design uses two 1220*690 boards and two 1630 * 690 boards. Each pair of boards will fold onto each other for storage and transportation. The section on the right will be a narrow fiddle yard for use in the clubroom. It will be operated from the bottom of the plan but for exhibition purposes will be viewed from the top. We will build a separate fiddle yard board for exhibitions with some (as yet unspecified) goods activity in front.

 

I have a particular interest in the GNR/ LNER/ BE(E) while other 0 gauge interested club members are generally Southern focussed. So we decided it would be a joint station similar to Moorgate but shared between the GNR & LBSCR and their successors. It will be capable of being set in era 2,3,4 and 5 (i.e. pre grouping, big four or BR steam eras) and set in the City of London

 

We envisage an intensive service of suburban trains from both companies with a rush hour longer distance service of mainline stock and parcels, milk and goods trains. The cassette on the bottom left will hold an 0-6-0T, six wagons and a brake van and will represent through goods traffic to Billingsgate fish market and possibly other traffic for city based warehouses or transhipment to ships on the Thames. It will be on a falling gradient and disappear behind the station platforms similar to hotel curve at King's Cross. 

 

We are still considering a name for the layout. Street names in the City of London seem the most promising at the moment. Something like Tower Hill, Botolph Lane, Bank, Telegraph St or Tooley Bridge. 

 

We got as far as agreeing the broad principles in the early Autumn before Covid closed the club. Work has continued on the planning and we have recently started building baseboards (in my garage before London entered tier 3) and preparing for track laying. Now we are in tier 4, one member, Peter, is continuing to build the baseboards while I will be laying track.

 

As this is designed to be a diary of the construction, I will provide regular updates as and when we make significant progress. Comments are welcome on any aspect of the build. I'd particularly welcome suggestions for a name.

 

Andy

 

 

I saved the plan from the first page of this thread since I like the Minories track plan.  There is so much lost through The Blip caused by the previous RMWeb hosters I thought other people might want to see the track plan originally posted, I've attached it here. I particularly like it because it gets over the "reverse curve through the two sets of point crossovers" the original plan has. Hope this is ok to add.