Dana Ashdown

Wow! Well done Mikkel! Dana

Thank's LNWR18901910, and everyone else! I've actually been able to fill in the gaps that you can see in the left side view, so painting has started. Unfortunately, now I'm dealing with a family medical emergency so progress will be even slower (if that's possible). I have got the black parts of the tender body done, so if I can get in the mood I'll paint it green, and get the springs and axle boxes painted black, and the buffer beam red. Otherwise, I think the tender bodywork is done, save for a coal load. Dana

The tender body has been finished and primed, and the outside frames of the tender chassis have received a coat of red oxide. A few places on the body will need some attention before it can be painted, but all in all I think its a reasonable facsimile of an L Class tender… in an impressionistic sort of way, that is! The pictures show the current state of things. (The bodies are not screwed to the chassis, and the tender doesn't have the centre wheels fitted.)

By way of a brief update, I primed parts of the engine and tender bodies which took away some of that loud whiteness of the plastic. On the tender chassis it made a great improvement. I then gave into temptation and painted the side frames which was even better! I was planning to fit the tender with an NEM coupler, but I found a Tri-ang coupler in a parts drawer and attached it for now. Finally, I was able to test the pulling power of the engine on a short piece of test track. It was surprisingly good — it walked away with 18 wagons with no effort. (And yes, it did bring them back!) I'm tempted to leave the Tri-ang coupler on, since I may eventually do some Tri-ang clerestory conversions it. One problem that the test did show was that one of the tender wheels was wobbly. It was my fault, because I tried to put it on one of the Tri-ang bogie axles earlier. Luckily, I had a spare pair of Gibson wheels — the Gibson tyres are thicker, but it won't show. One of these days I'll get the handrails and other bits fitted so I can get the paintwork done.

The Tri-ang tender presents another problem. Its entirely wrong for an L1, and not much better for an L. So far as I know, the only L Class tenders available come with the DJH L Class kit, but these apparently have some issues with them. You could perhaps adapt an SEF E Class tender, or a GBL C Class tender, but there would be compromises because the L Class tender was somewhat larger (amongst other things). Alternatively, you could build one from scratch, or just rebuild the Tri-ang tender. In the spirit of economy, I decided to rebuild the Tri-ang tender. Notwithstanding its flaws, the Tri-ang tender is actually close to the right size for the L Class. Removing the moulded coal from the tender reveals a screw at the bottom. Unscrew this to separate the tender tank from the chassis. The chassis is about a scale foot too short, but is easily lengthened by gluing extensions to the front and rear (I made mine from .060” plastic sheet). The rear extension takes the form of a new buffer beam. The wheelbase is also a foot too short; I considered replacing the side frames to fix it, but concluded that it wasn’t worth the effort (at least not at this time). Instead, I enlarged the arched openings between the wheels to a size closer in shape to an L Class tender. This was easily done with a 6-inch tapered half-round file, and is a major improvement in the look of the chassis. I replaced the wheels with 10-spoke 14mm wheels, with top hat bearings glued into the existing axle holes. Technically, the wheels should be larger (the prototype had 4-foot wheels), but then the tender would sit a bit too high. The axle boxes were given covers to roughly match the prototype, and new square spring dampers were fashioned from the 060” plastic sheet. Nothing fancy, but they should serve. The end steps and side sheets/valances to the chassis were cut out of the .010” sheet in the same way I did for the engine, tracing them with a template and cutting them out with scissors. At first, I was going to completely remove the moulded steps on the chassis. But after comparing them with the new sides realised that they could stay in place, so long as they were shortened. I sawed a few millimetres off the bottom of the steps and used files to smooth them off; and shape the ends of the frames to a more appropriate contour. Before gluing the new sides to the chassis, you have to file the top edge of the chassis until it is slightly narrower than the tender tank (when the sides are applied, they should be flush with the tender tank). This is basically the same process as filing back the footplate on the engine. Because the tender steps are canted inwards, you should file the moulded steps to match — this doesn’t need to be exact. The sides of the tender chassis can now be glued in place. You will probably need to trim them slightly with a knife and files. Finally, apply a beading strip from thin plastic rod along the top edge to match the engine footplate, and attach the treads to the steps. The tender tank is perhaps a little too wide, but is about the right length and height. The fenders do need to be removed; as do the water filler lid and dome, the cross pieces between the fenders; and the raised top of the front of the tender tank. Effectively, level the top of the tender but try not to separate the interior of the coal bunker from the tank body (otherwise, you won’t be able the screw the tender tank back onto the chassis). You may find that the front of the bin will detach, but this can be glued back. The tank sides and rear should now be filed flat, which will remove the rivets and moulded handles. On Wainwright tenders for the C, D and E classes, there were separate sheets extending forward from the front of the tank proper, but on L Class tenders these were integral. Nevertheless, you still have to reduce the height of the extension. (I probably haven’t explained this very well, but studying the photographs will show what I mean.) I cut mine a bit lower so I can attach the handle rail easier. I made the flared sheets along the top edge of the tank from 7/32” Evergreen Tube (No.227) that was sawed apart. For some reason, the cuts seemed to go in a bit of a spiral, so you need to watch out. Trying to cut the tube with cutters was actually worse, so use a razor saw. I might have tried the next smaller size tube, but the shop was out of stock, but I think the 7/32” still matches the drawing quite well. When fitting the flared sheets, cut them to length by measuring the top edge, but remember that you must match the bottom of the flare to the respective sides and rear. Do the rear first and use a file to make the corner mitres. Then do the sides. This is like making a picture frame, and with a little care you can make a neat joint. Lastly, the curve at the forward end of the side sheets should be made with a file (making the side sheets a little longer than required will allow you to make adjustments). These can now be glued edge to edge to the top of the tender tank. When the glue has set, you can fit the shallow coal fender that runs along each side. I made mine from the tops of the original fenders from the tender. At this point the tender should look something like this (hopefully better!): (Note that I haven’t applied the beading strip at the top of the chassis in these pictures.) Now make the front and rear bulkheads for the coal bunker. These have straight top edges that are at the same level as the top of the shallow coal fenders. I made mine from the 060” plastic for strength, but I bevelled the top edge to make it appear thiner. Contour the bulkhead ends to the flared sides with a round or oval file. The top of the tender behind the rear bulkhead needs a new top sheet and water filler. A sheet also needs to be fitted in front of the forward bulkhead. (These can be fitted before or after the bulkheads.) While you’re at it, cut a piece of thick plastic to cover the coal space, but leave it loose in order to give access to the screw that holds the tank to the chassis. It will be hidden once coal has been glued to it. That completes the major bodywork on the tender. Its not a perfect replica, but I think it manages to look the part.

Hello everyone! Before I forget everything, I thought I should post some notes about how I’ve been altering a Tri-ang L1 into an SE&CR L Class. With this comes the new thread title. First off, the victim. Tri-ang introduced the Southern Railway L1 Class to its line-up in 1960, issuing it in lined British Railways green until 1968. Two versions were offered: R.350 (without smoke) and R.350S (with smoke). The only outward difference between the two is that the non-smoking version has the screw attaching the body to the chassis passing through the chimney. With R.350S, the screw is in the footplate in front of the smokebox. My L1 is the non-smoking version, so the screw is, for all intents and purposes, invisible. It has a split steel chassis, which was common to early Tri-ang engines, but it is possible that later engines had a die-cast chassis. The L1 was Tri-ang’s first 4-4-0, so the general dimensions of the engine itself seem to be reasonably faithful to the 1926 prototype, being in essence an SE&CR’s L Class design with Maunsell’s revisions as seen on the D1 and E1 class rebuilds. The real L1 Class featured the same tender that Maunsell designed for his N Class 2-6-0. Rather than make a new one, Tri-ang recycled the tender sold with their R.251 British Railways Class 3F 0-6-0 from 1958. Thus, Tri-ang’s L1 sports an L.M.S. Fowler tender! Hornby re-issued R.350 in 1971 in lined Southern olive green. The model was then re-released in 1973 as R.450, posing as an L.M.S. Fowler Class 2P in black livery lined with red (at least the tender is more appropriate for this one). In both cases, the screw fixing the body to the chassis is in the footplate in front of the smokebox. This is how it looked when I first bought it. The original Tri-ang couplers had been removed by a previous owner, with a Hornby-Doublo coupler substituting on the tender. The plastic tender wheels had been changed for 12mm steel disc wheels, with sleeve brass bearings. There was some minor damage to the lower left side of the tender (probably when the wheels were replaced), but otherwise, the general condition of the engine and tender were good. Whilst considering how to proceed with the modifications, I decided to replace the bogie wheels with 10-spoke 14mm wheels, which are about the right size. These not only look better, but they don’t seem to cause any clearance issues. Afterwards, I cut off the block on the bogie where the coupler attached, as it protruded beyond the buffer beam. I ground and filed the edge smooth, so when painted black it is out of sight. About the first thing I did to the body was remove the moulded hand rails and piping from the engine. Most of the work was done with a knife using paring cuts, and finished with small files. Stopping cuts made along the rails with a razor saw allowed a little more control over their removal. The real challenge in converting the L1 to an L is forming the splashers. What I hadn’t realised at first was that the front of Maunsell's cab was too far back to get the proper sweep. Wainwright solved it earlier by moving the cab front forward, which is apparent when you study the pictures and the livery diagram posted earlier in the thread. Another thing is that the cab sides, footplate and footsteps are more or less in the same plane. This gave me an idea. I could use the livery diagram not just as a guide, but as a template to make new one-piece sides. To do this, I first measured the length of the Tri-ang footplate. Then I cut the image from the livery diagram and pasted it into my word processing programme. This allowed me to use the page rulers to adjust the image size to match the actual body length. This done, I printed out the scaled image and checked it for size. It worked! If printed at 100%, the PDFs below should be to scale. L Class Profile - Engine (Painting Diagram).pdf L Class - Tender Profile (Painting Diagram).pdf Create the template from the drawing by cutting out the cab and splasher sides, footplate and steps as one piece. Use the template to trace the lines onto a sheet of .010” plastic, then cut out with scissors. A knife will help to clean up any part missed by the scissors. You need two of these, one per side. Next, I filed the cab sides and footplate flush, the idea being to remove the lip along the footplate and any projecting detail on the cab. This was done with large files. The whistle, steps and buffer beam were also cut off. (The whistle and front steps could be reused if you wanted, otherwise put them aside for future projects.) While you’re at it, file the cab roof smooth and cut off the extension at the rear. With your template or plastic side, compare the position of the front of the existing Maunsell cab to the Wainwright cab. You will see that the latter is a few millimetres ahead of the former, so this is how much has to be removed. Using a very fine razor saw, make two vertical cuts in the firebox to the depth of the side cab windows. One vertical cut should be made just ahead of the cab front, and the other vertical cut a few millimetres beyond that. Remember to measure first — better to remove too little at this stage than too much. Now make a horizontal cut along the cab just below the window. This should clear the the top of the inside splashers. Continue the cut into the firebox. My fine razor saw wasn’t deep enough to complete the cut, so I finished it with a larger saw. The top of the cab should now be free. Sliding the top of the cab forward to join the firebox will put the cab front in the correct position. You may need to adjust the fit around the firebox with files. By using a very fine razor saw, only a minor amount of cab height is lost (this part should not be filed), which will largely be made up later when a new roof is added. The space created by the overhang can be filled with some scrap plastic after the cab top is glued in place. At this point, I drilled all the holes in the boiler and smokebox for handrail knobs, clack valves, door handle and so on, to avoid damaging anything later. Before the new sides can be glue onto the body, you need to make backer plates for the splashers. With the template, draw the outline of the splashers onto .060” plastic sheet. Cut these out with a fret saw and finish with files. Next, you have to create a recess in the footplate equal to the thickness of the .060” plastic. Start by making stopping cuts with a razor saw next to the cab and near the front of the forward splasher, then finish with files. Adjust the backer plates to fit into the space. I found that creating a notch on the fore part of the backer plates helps support the plate on the footplate. If you do this, make the recess a little shorter. Also, create a half-moon clearance for the crank. Note that the forward splasher must align with the splasher moulded into the body, and the plates must also be flush with the cab sides and footplate edges. The pictures below show the backer plates, along with the filler piece for the lower cab front and the new buffer beam, in place. Before going further, check that the sides are flush and, if necessary, dress them with a file. The thin sides can now be fixed into place. Be careful to avoid using too much glue, as I found that it can make the thin plastic pucker. If it does, a little filler will fix it. After new sides have dried, you can carefully refine the shape with a knife and files. The splashers are completed with body filler worked between the gaps. Two or three layers, allowing for drying in between applications, are best. These can be shaped and smoothed with a knife and small files. At this point they should look something like the next two pictures. I fitted the vertical handrails to the rear of the cab at this time because they stiffen the roof supports and help support roof. To finish the transformation, fit the cab roof. This is cut from the .010” plastic sheet. If you’re not certain of the exact size, use a paper pattern. The prototype photographs show a slight lip along the top of the footplate. I tried to replicate this by gluing on some thin plastic rod left over from wagon kits. Plastic rod was also used to trim around the cab opening and the on the front and back edges of the roof. Some photos also suggest a flat beading strip following along the upper edge of the splashers. I wasn’t sure about adding it, but thought it would make the lining easier to do. I cut the strip from the .010” plastic sheet, using another template made from the livery diagram. Gluing it in place is rather fiddly (not to mention sticky), but it seems to have works out, though it isn’t quite symmetrical — M. Poirot would not be amused! The treads for the steps are made from Evergreen 1/8” Channel (No.264), with one side cut off — this is how I make footboards for carriages. The steps on the original engines canted inwards below the footplate skirt. It is possible to replicate this by carefully bending the thin plastic to shape. For it to hold its shape, a wire or plastic former may need gluing to the back. That completes the major body work on the engine.

To the discussion earlier in March regarding carriage chassis, here are three drawings from Whishaw (1842 edition):

I don't have the book, but you're probably right. The photos posted earlier are mostly in works grey, though I notice that the lining differs between them.

My wifi link cut out before I could post a reply! What I was going to say was that we can't buy Phoenix paints in Canada anymore. The ones I do have came from a clearance (mostly just odds and ends that I thought could be useful). Sadly, my pot of GWR Coach Lake is used up; the Humbrol acrylic crimson lake I have is not as rich as the Phoenix, so anything further for the 1912-1914 period will be in 1908-1912 brown. I haven't opened the pot of Humbrol acrylic GWR green, but it may be fine for 1920s onward.

The conversion of my Tri-ang SR L1 Class into an SE&CR L Class is progressing. Here is a shot of the engine and tender. I've adapted the tender, which was, I think, an LMS type. Its not perfect, but it will do for now. The main problem is that the chassis adds about 9 inches to the height, partly because I've fitted 14mm spoked wheels. The original L Class tenders had even larger wheels. Still more yet to do. Dana

So far as I know, the SE&CR used brunswick green, whereas the GWR used middle chrome green (the shade used got somewhat lighter as time went by). I notice that the Bachmann C Class, Hornby H Class and Terrier, and Hatton's P Class, have different shades of green. Hornby and Hatton's are similar, and also darker than Bachmann's. I would say that Humbrol's brunswick green is somewhere in-between. I think Gary "Bluelightening's" is using Phoenix SE&CR brunswick green for his D Class, and it looks close to the Humbrol.

Hello Hayfield. The Covid-19 shutdown has affected my regular wi-fi connection, so I'm just trying to catch up sitting here in the supermarket parking lot. The L and P gives you some variety, but the Wainwright livery is a challenge, which is why I'm glad I only have to do the more basic 1914 version. My impression is that the Southeastern Finecast kits are better, so definitely another excellent buy on your part. I went out to get some more Humbrol brunswick green on Wednesday and managed to pick up some gold Woodland Scenics R.R. Roman gold letter transfers (the rub-on kind like Lettraset) and some Model-Master yellow stripes (both on clearance), which should be fine for the simplified Maunsell livery of 1914. The gold letters are not shaded, but if necessary I could use a black Mars drawing pen to add it. I'm now working on the tender. It won't be 100% accurate, but it should pass casual inspection. Dana

Hello Hayfield, I just looked it up. You really did get a bargain on the DJH kit! (My Tri-ang L1 cost me $10 Canadian, or about £6, and it runs rather well, considering its almost 50 years old.) The kit would be simpler to build than converting the old Tri-ang engine, and more accurate as well, but so far I think I've managed to get close to the as-built form. If I can achieve something like the original I'll be quite happy. I did two old Wrenn R1 tank engines recently (one as an R1, the other an R) using SEMs artwork, and they really don't look too bad. Dana

Thanks hayfield! As the late Wainwright/Maunsell lining was quite simple, I've decided to try a fine yellow paint pen. I bought an oil-based one recently from a big-box arts and crafts store, but have yet to try it. Posca also do an ultra-fine acrylic pen in yellow, but the art supply store that carries them doesn't have any in stock at the moment. I may have to get lettering transfers, but I'll have to see when the time comes what alternatives are available. On the positive side, the conversion is well underway; and when I get more time I'll post some pictures. So far the extra bits required have cost significantly more than the engine did. Dana

Hello Linny. As an alternative to buying feet, you could try making some wedges out of wood, two per leg. Taping them in or out will raise or lower the leg. The only leg you don't need them for is the highest one. The pointy ends of each pair of wedges should be pointed in the opposite direction, so the top and bottom of the wedge pair is level. Alternatively, you could also try some thick cardboard under the offending legs. Dana

Just a observation, but there are no 2nd Class compartments for the SECR carriages. Will these be provided for? Dana

First off, I’ve replaced the painting diagram posted on Wednesday with the full-sized original, as the reduced resolution made it difficult to read the smaller numbers. Having studied it, it appears that the wheels, boiler (including steam and safety dome), cab front and sides, splashers and tender tank sides are entirely brunswick green, with none of the black border seen on Wainwright’s livery, nor on the works grey photo of No.779. Even the boiler bands appear to be brunswick green with yellow-lined borders. The yellow lining is only 3/16-inches wide, so is quite narrow. It is discernible in the picture here of D-Class No.490 (I think this appeared on one of Edwardian’s threads last year), but it is subtle. The lining is barely visible in the picture LaCatherdrale posted of No.777 at Caterham, so again the effect is perhaps even more subtle when not well illuminated. The frames are painted “Purple Brown (Deep Red)”, with black springs, brake shoes and rods, and so on. The reference to “Deep Red” is interesting as it differs from the “light brown” quoted by Gareth from Marx’ Wainwright and his Locomotives. The works grey photo of No.779 has lining on the frames, steps and wheels where the diagram shows none. Smokebox, chimney and cab roof are black. Curiously, the Borsig engines don’t appear to have carried a builder’s plate. To Corneliuslundie’s earlier point about HMRS probably not publishing a volume on SECR liveries. The SECR Society does seem to have covered the topic for its membership, and they have been very generous in helping non-members like myself, but I believe a handy reference along the lines of Great Western Way would still be valuable. Perhaps another joint HMRS/SECRS project? Dana

Hello McLong. Thanks for posting the pictures. I think you're right. I was under the impression that the cylinders were change along with the boiler pressure, but I must have confused this with the L1 class. However, the smokebox's and door's were altered/replaced, as your two pictures show. Dana

Thanks Laecathedrale. That's a very useful picture. I can also see how the top of the cab roof was done. In breaking news, I've just heard from John Arkell of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway Society regarding the livery. He has kindly supplied a 1914 profile painting diagram for the L-class, as well as a drawing for the brass numbers. The painting diagram is quite revealing, and definitely easier to do than the full Wainwright. John has advises me that the diagrams are on the members page (with a reminder that membership has its rewards), but has let me post them here, so much thanks to John and the SECR Society. (Note, I've made the file size for the numbers smaller than the original sent to me.) Dana

I would suggest 6-wheel coaches, as I believe most of the 4-wheeled coaches were either withdrawn or put into London suburban services by about 1910. A PBV is an alternative to a BT, and don't forget that the SECR had 2nd Class at this time. We'll all look forward to seeing your LCDR brake 3rd completed! I think several members have noted that the LCDR stock was better built, and lasted longer than the SER's equivalent. Dana

Please do! Dana

Linny, as a possible fix, try painting over the offending silvering in the body colour with a fine brush. Then varnish as usual. If you're careful, you can eliminate most of the problem. I've done this with Ratio wagons where the LNWR transfers were the offenders, and so eliminated almost all of the silvering. What's left isn't really noticeable. Dana

Thanks Annie. These are much appreciated! Dana

Yes please Annie! It would be interesting to see them. I think the trailing wheels would classify it as a "Patentee" if it was built that way, although some Planets were fitted with the trailing axle later in life. Dana

The LCDR engine sounds interesting. Dana