Dana Ashdown

Body work has begun. I started by removing the outside steam pipes. Basically, a horizontal cut flush with the footplate, another close to the smoke box, and one or two in the middle. Then nibble away with snips and a sharp knife, and finally clean up with files. The smokebox saddle will need some modification, so I’ll wait and see how much filling will be required, if any. The moulded hand rails have all been removed, or nearly so. And the cab shutters have been filed off. This has all come at the cost of the rivet detail, but we can’t have everything. The cab roof was also filed down to remove moulded details. The bunker extension is also gone, and the remaining lower wall of the rear bunker has been filed back. All but the very top of the opening created was filled with thick plastic card, then the entire back was covered with a thin piece of plastic card to cover the two holes that receive the lugs on the chassis. The top of the bunker was then finished off with the top bit from the bunker extension, and the corners filed to match the the top bit. A piece has also been installed to receive the coal. The back of the cab is part of the moulded coal load, and only came out after the extension was sawn off — it refused to come out before! I separated it from the remaining “coal” for reuse. The cab side openings on the early Large Prairies were noticeably taller than the Collett versions/rebuilds, so these were attended to. First, the semi-circular projections on the lower rear corners were removed. Then I used a round file to raise the upper corners, followed by a flat file to do the part in between. I readjusted the height as I went, but basically took it to the base of the old roof. The beading around the cab openings that was lost to filing will be restored with some micro strip or rod. Speaking of roof, the early Large Prairies had a plain arc roof that was a little over six inches higher than the flatter, three arc Collett roof. Some views make the earlier roof look quite tall and curved, others not so much. I wasn’t sure what to do about the roof, but after examining a few options decided to use an extra plain roof that I think came with a Coopercraft Mink kit (probably one of the Diagram V4 kits — No.1007 or No.1008 that came with both a ribbed roof and a plain roof.) The roof curvature may not be quite correct, as it does not quite add the necessary six inches, but it looks fine. It will gain a little more height when I apply a thin overlay of plastic card. You could actually remove the original cab roof along with the front spectacle plate (the rear is a separate piece), and make new front and rear cab pieces, but this isn’t really necessary. Besides, keeping the roof intact keeps the body square and supported. Anyway, having settled on the Mink roof, I raised the window openings at the front and back with small files. At first I took these up to the bottom of the existing roof. However, with the Mink roof, that wouldn’t be enough; so I filed the openings back into the original roof, undercutting the top of the openings to decrease their visibility. The front window sides are not quite even, and if I were to do this again, I would have used a razor saw instead. The taller windows certainly do enhance the sense of height that you see in the pictures. The portholes in the cab front were then drilled, using a small pilot drill, followed by a larger drill to make the final hole. They might be a touch too big, but the next drill size down would have been too small. (There’s a small gap just under the new roof that needs filling.) The next step was to cut the Mink roof to length. I did this with a razor saw and small mitre box. Don’t use the ends of the Mink roof as these have a raised strip. Ideally, you should allow a little extra length and make final adjustments after the roof had been glued in place. The Mink roof is also a little wider than the cab, but again, this should be adjusted after the roof has been glued on. I glued the roof on and clamped it in place with elastic bands until the glue was set. Then it was out with the files for final adjustments. If you’re careful with the files, you can continue the beading from the tanks and bunkers to the top of the new roof. The height of the cab openings can now be finalised — they should go to the bottom of the new roof. To finish the roof, I’ll fix a piece of thin plastic card that overhangs the roof all around, as per the prototype, then apply the three battens seen on the prototype using micro strip. Still to do. Probably remove/replace most, if not all, of the moulded detail on the tank tops. Alter or replace the safety valve cover and chimney. Fit higher flanged motion brackets to the footplate in front of the tanks. New front footplate. Shorten the smokebox. Add new handrails… Regarding the chimney. The present chimney suits a 6100, and even the rebuilt 3100 and 3150 classes, but not the early Large Prairies. The thinner, tapered cast iron chimneys first used are quite distinctive. One possibility I’m considering is making up a new chimney using the old chimney(s) removed from the Hornby Panniers that I turned into saddle tanks. These have about the right taper, so a bit of cutting and shutting might just do it. I can only find one of them at the moment, but I do have another thicker bit of tapered black plastic from something or other. Another option is to adapt a chimney from a Mainline Dean Goods. I have two second-hand ones, at least one of which will be backdated to something a little more Edwardian, meaning a new chimney. But would it be too brutal to leave a poor defenceless engine without a chimney? I might get into trouble with the RSPCDGE (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dean Goods Engines).

Being budget minded, I'm going to use as much of the Airfix body as I can. But you're right, removing the sliding shutters was a bit of a problem, but nothing that some large files couldn't handle, albeit at the loss of rivet detail. I did manage to pop the smokebox front off this morning, so I'll see if it can be reasonably reworked/replaced. One thing, now that I've settled on an early 3111 Class, I can concentrate on making it look more like the Nos.3120 and 3121, at the top of the page.

You're reading my mind again! That's now the plan.

I wonder if you could modify the Marsh omnibus to something close to that pictured on the Fairford Branch page? The top and stairs would have to go.

My Marsh horse-drawn station bus kit is in the mail! I really wanted to mention that Langley do a horse drawn omnibus kit with two horses (Kit G21), should anyone be so inclined.

After doing the two 2721 Class saddle tanks on the other thread, I was planning on a quick remodelling of my Bachmann Mogul to 1913 condition. However, I’ve been looking at my 45-year-old Airfix 6110 Class large prairie tank engine to see how it could be recast into one of Churchward’s original 3100/3150 Class large prairies. It has been done before. Some of you may recall that Knobhead did a conversion a decade ago with quite impressive results: Whether I do as well remains to be seen. (I should have taken a before picture, but I think everyone knows what it looked like.) Jim Champ’s “A Beginner’s Guide to GWR large prairie tanks”: http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html) provides an excellent overview of the varieties operated by the Great Western. I’m thinking about doing one of three pre-1914 versions. In all cases, the outside steam pipes and bunker extension have to be removed; the cab needs altering to give it the higher arched roof of the prototype; the front footplate has to be replaced; and the chimney should be replaced (although its probably fine if the engine is in 1920s condition). The first and easiest version would be a 3150 Class circa 1914, by which time most of the engines had received top-feed and superheating. This would save shortening the smokebox, and I could leave the moulded safety valve cover/top-feed in place. The second option is to do a 3150 Class as built 1906-8, which needs the smokebox shortened and safety valve cover altered to remove the top feed (or a completely new valve cover). The front end struts can be kept, as these were pretty-much fitted to the class from new. The third option is the 3111 Class of 1905-6, which had a smaller cylinders and boilers (Standard No.2 rather than Standard No.4 fitted to the 3150s) than their successors, but were otherwise similar. These are notable in having prominent tool boxes on the footplate on either side of the smokebox, and no struts as built. Presumably, these came out with Indian Red frames. I rather like this option, and it would better fit my present plans. Plus, there are two good photos available. This first one is a profile view in works grey of No.3120, as built in 1905, from The Boys' Book of Locomotives (1907). This gives a good view of features and livery. The second picture (poached from Jim Champ’s prairie tank overview) is No.3121 in service shortly after completion. This clearly shows the front footplate arrangement I presume that the cylinder jackets were painted Indian Red to match the frame and wheels, although the piston covers looked to be polished steel. This view, from W.J. Gordon, Our Home Railways, Volume I (Frederick Warne & Company, London, 1910), shows a 3111 Class (possibly one of the 1906 engines?) hauling a train of 100 wagons. The date is not given, but handrails have been fitted on the front footplate. However, there are no struts and no top-feed. Although the resolution isn’t great, you can see the rear of the cab and bunker. The first thing I looked at was the chassis. Its a fairly chunky metal casting, with the motor snuggled down inside the mid-section. It fills most of the cab interior, but its not too noticeable. The mechanism — even after sitting in a box for several decades – still runs quite well, but… The metal tyres on the drivers have become loose. I noticed this when doing the surgery on the chassis described below. On the test track, the tyres quickly slipped off so I had to superglue them in place. Ideally, the drivers should be replaced, but if they stay put with the glue I’ll leave them be. The pony truck wheels have been replaced with new Gibson wheels I bought for it several years ago. The Airfix axles are rather thin, so the holes had to be opened up to get the Gibson axles through. I used a square awl on the front truck, which was plastic; and a drill to ream out the metal on the rear truck. The early large prairies had their rear sandboxes inside the cab, not hanging below like the Airfix chassis. So, after removing the body and pony trucks, I slipped the chassis into an old sock to protect the motor and drivers and clamped the cab end into the vice. With a hacksaw, I cut through most of the sandbox on one side, then snapped it off with pliers. Then I turned the chassis over and repeated the process. With care, you can nearly make a flush cut with the bottom of the chassis. I noticed that the screws holding the pony trucks in place also secured the plate that holds the driving wheels in place. There is a wire from this plate to the motor so, rather than cut the wire, I just left the plate loose while sawing of the sandboxes — that way I could move it and the rear drivers out of the way when required without completely removing the drivers. Even with the sock, some metal filings were still stuck to the chassis. What I couldn’t blow off, I removed with an old paint brush. The plastic cylinder moulding fits snuggly into a recess or notch at the front end of the chassis, which leaves part of the chassis protruding beyond the cylinders/smokebox saddle. This doesn’t interfere with the curved footplate of later classes, but if you want an early large prairie with the square front, the protrusion has to go. At first I tried grinding it back to make it thinner; but that would still leave part of the chassis sticking out in front and, if its too thin, it might snap off. Then I thought, why not remove it entirely. After making sure that the body would fit without it, I took out the hacksaw and cut it off as well. The rough edges were then ground off on my hand-powered grinder. So far as I can tell, the cylinders are still quite secure when the body is screwed on, so there is no longer anything to stop a square-fronted footplate from being fitted accurately. The question now: How do I best secure the new footplate at the front? This was a weak spot, even on the prototype! If fixing it directly to the body proves difficult, I might attach the front footplate to the cylinder block instead. I actually thought about gluing the cylinders to the body, which would give the front footplate something solid to attach to, but that would make refitting the piston rods and crossheads nigh on impossible. More to come.... Dana

I can't take complete credit for the Siphon articles. They are from a very useful website with all kinds of articles that have been scanned for download, only now I can't remember which site it was. It was posted in at least one thread on RMWeb, so someone should know.

Private collieries were allowed to operate their own trains over the Liverpool & Manchester, so these would have hauled the bulk of the coal in the early days, rather than the L&M itself. I'm not sure when the practice stopped. But as Steamport South says, canals were still very competitive at this time.

And Lewis's article on 6-wheel Siphons: Six-Wheeled Siphons by John Lewis.pdf

These are Lewis's earlier articles on Siphons: The Siphon Story Pt1 by John Lewis.pdf Siphon Story Pt2 by John Lewis.pdf

A beautifully done model, Mikkel. I have been thinking about buying the kit myself, so seeing how you've done it has come along at just the right time!

A few notes from Francis Whishaw regarding Liverpool & Manchester wagons that may be helpful: “The dimensions of a horse-box are as follows: length, including buffers, 12 feet 3-1/2 inches; length of the box 9-1/2 feet, width 7 feet 7 inches, height 7 feet 5inches. The side-flaps, which are hung vertically, are in two heights, the lower one being 3 feet 6 inches wide, framed with four vertical outside ledges. The under side of soles is 20 inches above the level of rails. The wheels are of 3 feet diameter, and the distance between centre and centre of axles 5 feet. One pair is of wood, and the other of cast iron with wrought tires.” (Francis Whishaw, The Railways of Great Britain and Ireland, London, 1842 (2nd Edition), page 204) “Mr. Hulton's coke-wagons, which pass frequently on this line, average each 2 tons net weight, and carry 4 tons of coke. The wheels are of cast iron and 3 feet in diameter, with outside bearings; the axles being of 33inches diameter. “Some of the wooden coal-wagons which we found at the Manchester coal-depôt are 10 feet in length, 3 feet 9 inches wide, and 1 foot high. The bottom is 1-1/2 inches, and the sides are 1-7/8 inches thick. The wheels are of cast iron, 3 feet diameter, and 4 feet 8 inches from centre to centre of axles. “The gross weight of one of these wagons is 5 tons 17 cwt. 2qrs. There is a flat iron draw-bar running underneath the bottom from end to end; and each wagon is furnished with three stout draw-chains.” (Francis Whishaw, The Railways of Great Britain and Ireland, London, 1842 (2nd Edition), page 205)

Mikkel, I'd like to say its never too late, but I really do want to see your finished pannier tank.

No wonder it looked so good. Still, I would have expected more reaction about Lion's release, as opposed to Hornby's tie-in to old movie titles. Speaking for myself, I was hoping to see it released on its own or with a string of wagons — like the coal wagons — and not a fictionalised train based on a film.

Just thought I'd mention the new Lion model here, on its own thread rather than under films. The model looks perfect, from what I can see of it. Its just too bad that Hornby couldn't release it either on its own or with the coal wagons. One things for sure: I will not be buying either of the movie themed sets. (Grumble over.)

Eliminated duplicate post!!!

That's true. Here's the Rocket tender and a coal wagon. In Hornby's defence, I believe that Rocket's tender was actually a wagon adapted for a tender. So now Hornby have done the reverse. Personally, I think the coal wagons look far more appropriate that the horse and sheep wagons. That said, I would have expected to see Lion released with three or six coal wagons... not something tied to a movie with carriages I don't want.

Well having seen the latest Hornby announcement, I don't think we need worry about that!

Hello Ray. I printed the artwork out on the colour laser printer/copier at the local office supply store, so I just used whatever paper was in the machine. The sections were then cut out and glued in place with a regular glue stick. My printouts were slightly on the large size, so a little bit was lost around the edges of the tank panels, but otherwise it went very well. The boiler bands were cut-out and applied individually over the boiler, which was painted in Humbrol Brunswick Green. After everything was on, I varnished it with Humbrol satin. I think outlining the tanks, cab and bunker in black before applying the panels improves the final look. As I mentioned in the earlier post, with a bit of careful cutting you can make the panel for the rear of the bunker, cab doors, and the front of the side tanks. If you plan on putting lamp irons or anything else on the rear bunker, put the paper panels on first, then fit the irons. I also did an R Class in Wainwright livery with another Wrenn R1 by cutting the roof off and fitting the curved Stirling roof. The safety valve was moved to the base of the steam dome base (which had beed cut off); and I fitted wing plates to the smokebox front. I don't have a picture available, but it looked quite good even if not entirely accurate. It might/should be possible to adapt Mr. Snail's artwork for other SE&CR tank engines, and possibly a tender engine. Dana

Finally done! No.2764 is finished, so now I have two late-Victorian/Edwardian saddle tanks. Each one is slightly different, so they maintain their own character within the same class/diagram. However, being made from a compromised model using a rather freelance approach, they are not absolutely true to the 2721 Class, but I think they do capture the look of GWR saddle tanks generally. I won’t go into any details, apart from mentioning that the green is again Humbrol HB1 Dark Green (no longer made); the “Indian Red” is Vallejo 70.814 Burnt Red; and the lining is HMRS. Obviously, these two will never compete with modern RTR models and expertly-made kits, but they should look quite at home on any future layout I might build. Hopefully, Nos.2744 and 2764 will inspire others to give this technique a try. If you do, please let us all know how you did. Dana (Note to Self: Push the roof down properly on 2764!)

Turbosnail did artwork for the R1 back in early 2018, both the full Wainwright version and the black SER version for the R Class. They were colour PDFs that you printed and cut out to suit. I did an SE&CR R Class and an SE&CR R1 Class with these using Wrenn engines. With careful cutting, I was able to do cab doors and the rear of the bunker. This is No.69. The green is Humbrol Brunswick Green; the tanks and cab were outlined with black paint before the paper overlays were put on. The Wainwright sheet link is near the bottom of this page: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=949779

That is impressive! I have some Ratio GWR 4-wheelers that I'm planning to turn into LC&DR and SE&CR carriages, starting with a 28ft. LC&DR passenger brake van. My plan is to do a 4 or 5 car rake to use with my H and P class tanks. Whether I can reach the level of finish you've achieve remains to be seen.

I didn't know that! I thought the "finial" was used to secure the brass cover. I agree with you, a domeless Saddle Tank would be different, especially as wheels are noticeably smaller than the other large Saddle Tanks.

Sophia, what's happened to your 0-4-4T conversion? I realised something's missing.

I hope everyone is enjoying being Gnome for the Holidays! I thought I should post some pictures of 2764 showing the body before and after priming. (Perhaps I should retitle this thread “Adventures in crude scale modelling!”) I’m trying to make this one a little different from 2744, so red frames; older style lamp sockets; and a larger cylinder cover. The lamp sockets are made from wire and small, squarish pieces of plastic. I bored the plastic for the wire (and my thumb — three times!) before cutting them. They’re rather primitive but hopefully will be fine after final painting. The steam dome finial is made from one of the broken pannier tank vents. This time, I only used one layer of thin plastic to represent the tank plates, but it still looks a little heavy. If I ever did another saddle tank like this, I would use paper instead. The handrail knobs and most of the handrails were recycled, although this did create a problem. The plastic knobs for the short tank handrails and the ones beside the cab doors were not bored all the way through, which leaves a neater rail. However, the ones used on top of the saddle tank needed to be bored through (its easier for me to fit the new rails that way), but being made of Delrin or some other slippery plastic, it took a lot of pressure to drill the hole all the way through. I did it, but the drill bit snapped at the top of the twist part. At present, the black parts are painted, leaving the green and Indian Red to be done. Lining to follow. Hopefully, it will look much better in a week or so. Dana