Dana Ashdown

That does looks good! How will you power the wheels? Dana

Thanks Mikkel. You're absolutely right about getting to know the class doing this sort of thing. But it is satisfying to see that at some point, yes, it actually does look like the real thing! The best part is that no one else will ever have one exactly the same, which might be a good thing.😉 Its now had its basic paintwork done, but there are a few tiny areas that need touching-up; and the handrails &c. need doing (probably followed by more touching-up!). Then varnishing before lining. I'll post some pre-lining pictures next week when the varnish dries.

I could be wrong, but I think Lion received the haystack boiler a short time after it was sold by the Liverpool & Manchester, so it may be "period," if not actually original. Many of the early engines were rebuilt so much that its hard to tell.

Now that normal service is slowly resuming…... The essential body work is now complete, so two quick shots with the body sitting loosely on the chassis. The tool boxes are likewise unattached at the moment. I wasn't sure what to do about the lamp brackets on the back of the bunker, but I managed to make some from scrap brass leftovers from a Shirescene's kit. The buffers will be left as-is for now, because I don’t have the correct pattern of buffers. The engine is now in the paint shop. I’ll give it a coat of satin varnish before applying the lining, then revarnish afterwards. Dana

The L1 on top could be reworked into an L Class... then they would all be pregrouping.🙂

I was wondering if anyone has seen Hornby’s latest Skaledale offering in South Eastern Railway stations? As you may remember, a building based on Rye was released years ago. This time, Frant, located just south of Tunbridge Wells on the Hastings branch, was chosen. According to Wikipedia, the original ragstone structure was designed in the Gothic/Tudor style by the South Eastern Railway’s architect William Tess, and opened in 1851. The Gothic theme was also used for many of Tess’ other South Eastern stations, including the larger building at Battle (opened January 1852), closer to Hastings. The canopy was added in 1905 — hopefully, it can be easily removed from the model it you need to represent an earlier period. Like Hornby’s previous offering, the new station is produced in sections — two this time — consisting of: R7362 Station [Station Master’s House], £60.49; and R7363 Station Building [Booking Hall], £54.49. Hornby says they will be made of painted resin, although we’ll have to wait to see them “in the flesh” before judging them, as we only have drawings at the moment. Three other structures will complete the set: R7364 Platform Shelter, £25.49; R7365 Signal Box, £42.49; and R7366 Footbridge, £54.49. I presume the signal box will also be produced in resin, but I’m not sure about the other two. The platform shelter and footbridge are probably standard SER/SE&CR designs, so are useful for almost anywhere on the SE&CR, especially the former SER sections. The two station buildings proper would cost £114.98, and should appeal to anyone in need of an early Victorian station. However, the entire lot would set you back £237.45, so either way, it would be a significant investment for many. I’ll be interested to see how Hornby’s new station will compare to Metcalfe’s more affordable Wayside Station (PO238) and Wayside Station Shelter (PO239) die-cut cardboard kits. These represent similar stone structures on the Great Western Railway, designed by Isambard Kingdom Brunel for Twyford and Bradford on Avon. (My Metcalfe kits are still waiting to be assembled.)

I think its a pony, but I agree with Caley Jim, that it helped pulled the luggage cart up the path.

I think the pale stone looks more natural, to my eye.

Update time. The front footplate is now complete. I fitted the smokebox saddle extension first, and then added the riser faces on either side — it seemed easier that way. Technically, the riser should have three layers: the plate along the back; another plate from the piston valve covers to the smokebox saddle; and the smokebox saddle itself in the middle. However, if I was to include the intermediate layer, the forward extension of the smokebox saddle would not be as prominent as it should be, so I dispensed with the intermediate layer. Its a compromise, but then, the locomotive is a compromise. The piston valve covers are made from thick plastic card that has been cut out and then reduced in size with a file — not ideal but it got the job done. The rod covers are made from some round plastic bits I had, which have been inserted into drilled holes for strength. Ideally, the piston valves should also be extended to the rear, but there isn’t much clearance there so I’ll leave things as they are. The pony truck pivot cover is similar, only the part on top is another stray bit that was glued on. The smokebox door hinges are on, as are the higher motion brackets in front of the tanks, and the beading around the cab openings has been restored. The final layer of the cab roof will probably be next on the to do list. The tank filler caps are also in place, but need hinges and clamps. Still to add are the lifting rings and tank vents (the latter are leftovers from the Pannier conversions). Also, the regulator lubricator pipe on the right side of the boiler and new handle rails. I’ll leave the smokebox door handle, lamp irons, vacuum pipes, number plates and a builder’s plate for the front, until the rest of the bodywork is finished. I’m not sure what to do about the whistles. On the prototype, they’re attached to the front of the cab, not the top of the firebox, so either the Airfix whistles will need to be bent to shape, or new whistles made. New whistles might be simpler. The tool boxes are essentially done (they still need handles and locks), and will be glued on last, after everything has been painted. The grey plastic is actually from the broken tonneau cover catch/bracket/thingies of the old Focus wagon (now long gone), but will live on in a new and unexpected way. (Lesson here: never throw anything that could be useful out!) The chimney had to be done at some point, and so I cut off most of the Airfix chimney. As the 6110 has a fairly wide chimney, the base had to be filed back for the “new” donor chimney. As I threatened to do, I cut the chimney off one of my two Mainline Dean Goods engines. It’s tapered, so while not appropriate for an Edwardian Dean Goods, it’s not too far off the requirements for the Large Prairie… not perfect, but not bad either. The first time I glued the new chimney on it was slightly crooked, so with a little pressure I managed to lever it off safely. It worked better the second time.

You could try new bogie wheels? That might improve things if the flanges are too deep. I'll have to see how mine works on of my lone piece Peco bullhead flex track, although other wagons and engines haven't any difficulties with it (which isn't really saying much). Switches are a different matter, and I only have Code 100 which presented no problems in the past.

Andrew Dow, The Railway: British Track Since 1804 (Pen & Sword Transport, 2014), Chapter 4, has information on early switches. Here is a link to a Google preview: https://www.google.ca/books/edition/The_Railway/kmBtBQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=The+Railway:+British+Track+Since+1804&pg=PA236&printsec=frontcover

How about "shake ground?"

Absolutely, but I think you really have to be good to make it work in photographic grey. If it were a few years earlier, when the GWR couldn't make up its mind about the new livery, then I think grey could have been used as a finished livery, albeit a temporary one.

I removed the magnet from my Lord of the Isles and Caledonian single years ago because on nickel-silver track the magnet pulled on the rear wheels and made the rear end pull to one side. No problem without the magnet, but there is a gap. I have thought about trying to demagnetise the magnet and reinstalling it, but remagnetising it would be a problem... maybe just put a piece of heavy metal into the space.

I like this idea!

Thank you for this. I believe the Large Prairies were considered to be mixed traffic types when built, so black inside frames it is. Would I still be on safe ground painting the outside frames, wheels and cylinder covers Indian Red for this period?

To my previous comment about white window frames (by which I meant the window sash/casement) I’ve had a look at Slinn (2nd edition, page 149) for his comments on the windows. He writes: “The exterior of timber built stations had the walls, door panels and barge boards in light stone. The outer frames of the building, the door and window frames, mullions and window sills, gutters and down pipes were dark stone. Window sashes and the framing of glass were white. Brick built stations were slightly different as window frames, sills and mullions, in addition to door panels and barge boards, were light [presumably light stone]. In dark stone were the structural woodwork on the outside of the building, gutters and down pipes, door frames and doors (except panels), the wooden plinths at ground level and the ironwork, bars etc on windows. Window sashes and the framing of glass were white. Maroon-brown when introduced had a similar application in both types of buildings being used in place of dark stone for door frames, doors, ground level plinths, the lower framing or the bottom four or five planks on timber structures, gutters and down pipes and occasionally instead of light stone on window frames. A general rule was that framing of any kind was finished in dark stone and panelling in light. Sometimes the framing and panelling were false the effect being produced by the use of the two colours.” On page 147, Slinn does note that whilst the colour scheme using light and dark stone was standard by 1880, “Chocolate was also used in some applications as a basic colour and from about 1931 a similar tint which can be best described as maroon-brown was introduced for items subject to heavy wear such as stair risers and the lower parts of wooden buildings.” So the window sash/casements were presumably always white… except some of the pictures show a darker colour used. So perhaps this was either a local variant or more probably something to do with contrasting/complimenting the colour of the brick or stone? However, the surrounding frame in timber-built stations was dark stone or chocolate (or maroon-brown after 1931); but in brick structures it was light stone, but could also be chocolate. Newbury certainly looks like it had chocolate window frames and sash/casements. But as it was rebuilt/replaced 1908-10, it might represent a variation introduced around that time. I don’t think dark stone would have looked that dark in pictures. Just a quick note about the aerial photo. The two trains on the up lines are quite short. A train of three short clerestories headed by what looks to be a small tender engine at the platform. And a four car train on the express line in charge of a tank engine running bunker first, with a PBV up front, two clerestories and what could be toplight bringing up the rear. Both are ideal layout size. Only the toplight(?) and a clerestory in one of the down sidings appear to be white. The rest are in varying shades of grey, from nearly white to almost black.

Mikkel, you are ambitious! If I were doing it, I would have opted for the shorter down side building, but then I'm willing to settle for Metcalfe's wayside station based on Brunel's plans for Twyford and Bradford on Avon. (Not yet built, by the way... the fallback is my old Hornby Dunster station.)

I understood from Slinn that they were always white, but I can see from the pictures that that wasn't necessarily the case. I'll have to have a closer look a some of the old photos.

I can't disagree with you so far as accuracy is concerned, in which case 1920s/30s LMS would be most appropriate. However, I would really like to have mine run on something as close to the Liverpool & Manchester's track as possible... even if it winds up being flex-track covered almost entirely ballast. I think the real challenge will be turnouts.

3111 was completed in January 1905; 3120 was completed in March 1905; 3121-3130 were finished over June and July 1905. Deliveries of the next members of the class, started in January 1906 with 3131. So I'm looking at either January-March 1905, or June-July 1905.

Anthony Dawson has done several books on the Liverpool & Manchester. I've only seen some excerpts from one or two of them, but was wondering if there is anything in them that might be helpful?

The front end has now been rebuilt, allowing the engine’s Edwardian character to show through. First, I cut off the smokebox front and front footplate. Before removing the footplate, I scribed a line just in front of the cylinders with a knife, and used this to guide the saw. A little extra was allowed for the cuts so that I could file back and make adjustments where needed. A new smokebox front and door were then made from thick plastic card and glued in place. The door is drilled for the handles, but the hinges have yet to be done. I again used thick plastic card to fabricate the replacement front footplate. It primarily consists of the upright riser and the horizontal footplate. These effectively form the frame for the footplate and are about the same thickness as the outside frames of the engine. The riser is notched at the upper corners to clear the frames of the main footplate. It is glued to the horizontal piece and reinforced at the centre rear with a piece of plastic angle. The original Airfix buffer beam has been grafted onto the front. The front steps were cut off because the early 3111 Class members were built without them; presumably the engines built in 1906 had steps when new. Before gluing the footplate in place, I checked the height of the riser and found that it had to be reduced. That done, it was glued to the bottom of the upper footplate. The new plate makes for a snug fit in front of the cylinders, but not tight, so its about right. One small problem, though, is that the footplate angles up slightly to the front. Nothing serious — at least I won’t need struts to hold it up! I have tried to flex it down a bit, but the joint is actually quite strong and I’m worried that if I apply too much force I might snap the footplate off. I think the white plastic makes it look worse than it is. The footplate still needs a thin piece of plastic sheet applied to the riser and horizontal section to make the actual footplate surface, which will overhang the sides slightly. The piston valve covers can than be made and added to the front of the riser, as well as the pony truck swivel cover. Apart from the chimney, that about completes the major alterations to the chassis and body, so now its on to cleaning up the body, adding detail bits, and finally painting and lining.

To better reflect the ultimate goal now, I’ve retitled the thread “Making an Edwardian 3111 Class Large Prairie from an Airfix 6110.” Livery will be green body with Indian Red outside frames and wheels, but I have two questions: 1) Are the cylinder covers painted Indian Red? 3121’s look to be, but Slinn doesn’t mention anything about engines with outside cylinders, nor does GWR.org entry for the 1904-6 engine livery. 2) Are the front tool boxes also painted Indian Red, or are they green? Judging by the picture of 3121, they’re green, although I think the usual practice for anything mounted on the footplate was Indian Red. A delivery of bits and pieces arrived Wednesday in the mail, including a Gibson brass safety valve cover. So off with the moulded Airfix cover/top feed and on with the handsome new brass cover. It really does set the engine off, but I’ll wait until I finish painting before I glue it in place. (It will be the “piece of resistance”/“cup of grass” if you’ll pardon my French!) While I was removing the old cover/top feed, I also took off all of the moulded detail on the tank tops. I still have two or three vents from the Hornby Pannier/Saddle Tank conversions, so I’ll use these — they are a bit small but so are the ones on 3120 and 3121. I’ll make new tank filler tops and lifting rings from plastic tube and wire. As The Johnster noted earlier in the thread, the smokebox door on the Airfix is on the small side — maybe to use oversize handrail knobs? Compare 3121’s with Airfix’s: With a bit of care, a new smokebox front and door should be easy enough to fabricate from plastic card. Shortening the smokebox, and keeping the cut square, is the hard part.

I'm a bit late with this, but without any staining, oak can be quite light, especially white oak. However, over the decades/centuries it does darken down. Think Jacobean furniture, which usually looks very dark. When new, it would have been light and frequently featured painted highlights/details. I would imagine the varnish used by the railways would have imparted a yellowy or orangey tint to the oak. The more varnish, the more pronounced the tint.