Compound2632

I can see where the Triang 2P might be in that but the Jinty? It doesn't even seem to be one of those "accountants' rebuilds" where the whistle is recycled...

A goods train, the shame of it...

Yes, I think you're right that the transition from the 'primitive' to the 'classic' railway took place over the last quarter of the 19th century (in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, at least). On the Midland, the appointment of T.G. Clayton - a Great Western man - as Carriage and Wagon Superintendent in 1873 was the really significant event from the point of view of carriage design. But if there is a defining moment at which the 'classic' railway crystallised (to use a term) it must be the Regulation of Railways Act of 1889, which empowered the Board of Trade to require the railway companies to implement 'lock, block, and brake' on all passenger trains and lines. The BoT had been pressing for this for decades but the trigger was the Armagh disaster of 12 June 1889. In this day and age, it's sobering to read that the Act received the Royal Assent on 30 August, less than two months later.

My understanding is that the Board of Trade disapproved of junctions like Ruthernbridge - just a single point - much preferring junctions to be laid out as full double junctions like Grogley, even on otherwise single line. So to keep your BoT inspector happy, the entire three mile section of main line from Rutherbridge Junction to Wadebridge junction would be double. Otherwise haven't you got several short single-line sections operated by token or whatever? - particularly inconvenient for light engine movements from the shed to Grogley. I think you can find exceptions to the BoT preference in parts of Scotland or Ireland; how remote was North Cornwall?

The short section crammed in between two road bridges is very Black Country-ish but can you give it any other distinctive features? A canal for instance - with the railway bridges abutting older canal bridges? Rather than a passenger station, how about a private siding serving some typical industry? Or is that too much like an American switching layout?

Isn't Spon End in Coventry?

Sorry, yes, my confusion. On the other hand, I'll note that the American spelling sulfur/sulfide/etc. is the IUPAC recommended spelling - the deal being that IUPAC recommends the British spelling of aluminium, so there's transatlantic balance.

I can't take credit for the comment about red lead as anti-corrosion paint for iron - I first picked it up in one of the earlier threads on GW red wagons on here but was recently reminded of it by reading up on lead-based paints on Wikipedia. I'd also looked at the site you linked to, Mike, as well as the Little, Greene website which is useful for understanding greys: what the Georgians at least meant by "lead colour" and "dark lead" seems to be well-understood by architectural and decorative historians.

The statement about the various reactions of red lead (lead oxide) clarifies some previous discussion. Following the route to lead sulfide or lead carbonate, both these are white compounds, the latter being "white lead", the major ingredient in the grey paint used by e.g. the Midland Railway. So this provides the chemical explanation for "red weathers to grey". These white compounds can react further to yield black lead sulfide, or red lead can go there directly. See also the discussion on drduncan's blog (to which you've contributed).

A further point I've just noticed is that two of the "dark" wagons are what I would take as of fairly "modern" design, 4 plank sides with angle iron end pillars, in contrast to the "light" 2 plank wagon with wooden end pillars.

What is the surviving documentation from Swindon and Wolverhampton works? Did everything go to the bonfire in Churchward's day or later? Are Midland enthusiasts just exceptionally fortunate in the high survival rate of at least drawings from the mid 1870s onwards?

I think we need a forum area dedicated to Great Western red wagons! There are several treads/blogs going on at once... As Donw says in a comment on your blog, Mike, red lead is quite a different colour to red oxide (different chemical composition) and may react differently with pollutants, weather differently, etc.

We need research council funding for an experiment: paint several timber samples (Baltic pine, English and American oak), appropriately prepared, with the various possible paints mixed according to authentic recipes, then subjected to accelerated weathering under different atmospheric/pollutant conditions. Reconstruct period emulsions &c and make a photographic record.

Fascinating. I find myself agreeing with John. The lettering on the "dark" wagons looks much sharper than on the "light" wagons. This might just be a question of contrast, but I'd interpret the "dark" wagons as being quite recently painted, whereas the "light" wagons have a shabbier appearance; these photos argue for inconsistency or variation between works in the placing of the lettering more strongly than they do for variation in base colour. There is a similar situation in knowing the colour of Midland Railway service stock (the well-known 3-plank dropside wagons labelled E D, also crane match wagons and ballast brakes). Official ex-works photos and others that can be interpreted as showing newly painted wagons look dark and glossy, wagons in service look lighter and less glossy. I think that's also the case in the Cinderford photos: the "dark" wagons look "shinier". So, I suggest that the surface finish is also a factor in the apparent colour. I believe it is the case that until the advent of "modern" paints, true matt paint didn't really exist and most fresh paint would look glossy. Wear and tear would remove the shine. (Sorry this is based on memory of stuff I've read at one time or another; more research than can be done at this time in the evening is needed to support my statements.)

What I have learnt from recent reading about old paint is that the main constituent of the most readily-available red paint was red lead (lead oxide) - known to the Romans as minium. When applied to an iron or steel surface, this reacted to form insoluble iron plumbate; hence it was an ideal anti-corrosion paint (and explains why the Forth Bridge has always been red) - this has a bearing on the idea that the red livery originated in the days of iron wagons; eventually with more wood being used, for some reason grey became a better choice (cheaper?). Red lead is a much less orange in hue than the "iron oxide" colour which I've tried (Humbrol 70) - closer to the colour you've used, Mike, and answering the description of a "warm red". Need to think about the chemistry of lead oxide reacting with atmospheric pollutants especially sulfur compounds.

"One snippet I did pick up was that the SECR wagon grey was very similar to Great Western wagon grey, so my choice to use SECR grey on the earlier GW wagon builds seems to be vindicated" - beautiful reasoning: I'm sure it's more convincing to be consistent than to be 100% authentic. I've seen a few exhibition layouts based on the Midland Railway running stock from different builders/painters - although there were many individually beautiful models, the variation in interpretation of crimson lake and also in the "strength" of the lining produced a jarring effect. (Notwithstanding any arguments about inconsistency of paint mixing in the works, effects of ageing/weathering, etc.)

Will this have footboards?

I don't know much about SECR goods livery. Photos of the preserved van show it either in a very light grey which given the small lettering I'm guessing is a wartime/post-war livery or in SER brown with shaded lettering which looks very attractive. (I take it these are the same vehicle and infer that 1000 was added to the numbers of SER goods vehicles when the working union was formed?) According to the notes on the K&SR page, the preserved van was originally as you've modelled it with one closed veranda a la Midland and was later modified, so the SER brown is inauthentic? I'd not noticed before the extra "openwork" wooden handrail at the end supporting the iron pillar - was this original or part of the rebuilding to double-ended form?

Anyway, presumably your dark SECR grey is authentic for the early years of the SECR?

BTW the Meteor kit seems to be based on the Midland Railway drawing dated 1910 reproduced in Midland Wagons Vol 2.

PM sent.

Andy, that restored match wagon looks very nice too. I note the lamp iron brackets between the end pillars who now that I look more closely at the photo in Midland Wagons (plate 397) I see they were there from new.

John, the wagon for the counterbalance overhang end isn't flat, it's a very similar design to the jib rest match wagon but with a recessed end. The match wagons were mostly built in pairs:

Drg. 826 (7 June 1890) Crane Match Wagon with Jib Rest. scale 1 1/2in.

Drg. 826A (7 June 1890) Crane Match Wagon without Jib Rest. scale 1 1/2in.

If you like, I could PM you a scan of the relevant page in Midland Wagons if you don't have access to that essential work!

Stephen

That looks very nice! Midland Railway match trucks are on my list to research. The best source of published information is Vol. 2 of Essery's "Midland Wagons" (OPC 1980). You'll need a pair, one with jib rest and one with tool chest and recessed ends to take the overhanging weight runners. These are based on the standard MR 9'0 wheelbase 14'11" over headstocks underframe, although examples built up to 1890 were probably dumb-buffered (? based on a change in drawing number) - though if you are going for the LMS period I expect that's not relevant. The Midland Railway Study Centre holds the drawings. In 7mm scale, the Slater's MR kits would probably be your best starting point - although these wagons are 3 planks high, I'd think of using the 5-plank D299 rather than the 3-plank dropside D305 as the former gives you the cornerplates.