Tom Burnham

Used to hate those things when I had to use the East Grinstead line before it was electrified... (Puts on tin hat)

Although OVSB had been on the Great Northern before Grouping so wouldn't necessarily know about a short term trial on the North Eastern.

The original proposal for the York Newcastle electrification was to use a protected third rail (possibly at 1500V DC, cf the contemporary SE&C plans) with overhead collection only in stations and yards. There were some experiments with a section of third rail laid on the Scarborough line out of York and 4-4-4T with pick-up shoes to assess the mechanics of third rail collection at high speed. I wonder if the aim of the loco under discussion might have been to investigate the effect of conductor rail gaps on a short vehicle, rather than any intention to use it as serious motive power? Just an idle thought...

Another example is the 10 L class 4-4-0s that the South Eastern and Chatham ordered from Borsig in Berlin in 1914. They were delivered "knocked down" via Hamburg and Dover Harbour and photos show that LNWR boiler wagons were used to carry the boilers from Dover to Ashford Works.

Containers of the type handled by the Condor were nothing new - introduced on the 1930s I believe. So there would surely have been a large pool of them around?

Herewith the Southern Railway's instruction for loading barrels or casks from the 1934 Appendix. However, I suspect the arrangements hadn't changed much since 1922 or earlier. I hadn't heard of the "bilge" of a barrel before, so you learn something new every day!

Ah, Phoebe Snow. Looking on Wiki, I see the Lackawanna's train of that name only received its name in the 1940s, all diesels and stainless steel. Also the connection between Phoebe and the Brandy Alexander cocktail. Wasn't E M Frimbo (the world's greatest railroad traveller) a fan of Brandy Alexanders?

The South Eastern Railway had a signal cabin called Crayford Creek Junction. You wouldn't expect the Chatham to name one of their structures after somewhere served by the rival line, surely?

No, the connections at Lewisham weren't put in until (from memory) 1929. Off the WLER to Longhedge Junction then round the Chatham's metropolitan line to Blackfriars Goods - which was south of the river - then down the spur to London Bridge. Everyone concerned must have breathed a sigh of relief when the Nunhead to Lewisham connection finally opened. Incidentally one of the Midland goods trains from Hither Green is shown as stopping at London Bridge if required to pick up fruit traffic!

I found some working timetables on the SEC Society website, but nothing for the SER from the period shortly before Hither Green yard opened. In 1902 it looks as if the 'foreign' trains via London Bridge to Bricklayers Arms would have run round at Surrey Canal Junction. Incidentally HG received Midland, GN, GE and LNWR goods trains at that time.

They would still have had to run through London Bridge but I guess there would have been no need to stop. Presumably before Hither Green yard the wagons would have gone to Bricklayers Arms? I'll have to have a look at some 1890s SER working timetables and see how it was worked.

According to Auntie Wiki, Manet was influenced by Goya's The Third of May 1808. So in a sense the Execution series were paintings by Goya even though the man himself was dead...

And Dover, where a connecting line ran along the sea front, with wagons of coal for shipping from the Kent coalfield. Photos usually show a P class 060T in charge. The hoteliers thereabouts were not happy about it. The same road also carried a 3ft 6in gauge electric tramway at one time, and there are photos of coal trains passing trams.

So 25 per cent of Norfolk's locomotive output survives? Must be a record and certainly a tribute to the quality of the work!

Didn't Hornby do the Met electric loco in O gauge tinplate in the 1930s? Just the right track!

Thanks - I know Woolwich Dockyard was an unresolved problem when they started lengthening platforms for the 12 car Networker programme back in the 1990s.

I recall reading complaints in a Gravesend local paper of 1912 that wagons of manure were left standing for hours on the through line at Gravesend Central.

I went through Woolwich Dockyard, which is situated between two tunnel mouths, only a few months ago but failed to look to see how or whether the platforms had been extended to 12 cars.

Very appropriate for a K&ESR inspired layout as 1556 was hired to the old company by the Southern and survives on the preserved line, although it's having a long wait for repairs

Winner and the end of the game!

In fact Dockyard was open during WW1 - it was Sheerness-on-Sea that was closed. You had to have a special pass to travel to Sheppey which pretty much killed off the tourist traffic. The reversal at Dockyard was to save one signal cabin I think, at a time when the LC&D was feeling even more hard up than usual.

Straying from the original question but a couple of the SE&CR vans survive, one on the Bluebell Railway and the other - the prototype - on the K&ESR.

Thanks for the clarification. I had a recollection of the vans being mentioned in an article on the branch in Trains Illustrated around the time the branch closed. Incidentally, having looked the vans up in David Gould's book on SR passenger vans, I see there were in fact two series of passenger luggage vans fitted to work with push-pull trains. Five SECR built vans were converted in about 1941. They were withdrawn in 1962 and replaced by five 1950 built vans, for the few SWD push-pull services remaining in 1962.

I believe that in the 1950s there was a considerable volume of pot plants despatched from Hawkhurst, generally in a utility van formed in the push pull trains. I'd guess that accounted for a fair proportion of the quoted parcels revenue. A few 4 wheel general utility vans were provided with through air pipes so that they could be coupled between the loco and a push pull set.

Ice has vanished as if by magic here in Mid Kent. We went out to a carol service last night and the pavements were like a skating rink - rain falling on snow compacted to ice.