chris45lsw

Nice to see a splash of S. Region green at PN, Gilbert. Strictly speaking the green PMV would have black ends in 1959 and would not have lost its roof vents until later in the '60s. Regards Chris Knowles-Thomas

Obviously aesthetic taste is a personal thing but I take exception to this view! I saw quite a few mainland O2s around 1960-62 and IMHO the real thing was pretty cute as well! :-) Delighted with my Kernow 30182 by the way. Chris KT

Somehow I posted before completing my reply! To continue:- 3520/30584: D921 Mar 45 - Mar 48 / AT Apr 48 - Aug 54 / AS Sep 54 - Jan 61 (withdrawal) So D916 was in use right up to the end in July 1961 (on 30582) and D921 was last used (also on 30582 in June 1960. My hypothetical railway is nominally set in the Summer of 1954 so I will happily take Oxford's 30584 with AT plus Hornby's 30582 with a Drummond boiler, though I will have to change the late crest to early emblem. I'll have to wait until one or the other, hopefully, make 30583 with Drummond boiler! Chris Knowles-Thomas

As discussed there were four boilers available for the three locos - 2 x Drummond, boiler Nos. 916 & 921 (D916 & D921) , 1 x Adams with short dome (AS) & 1 x Adams with tall dome (AT). AT was on EKR No. 5 / 3488 (30583) when acquired by the SR though it went into initial SR service carrying D916. So it got back the boiler it had when sold out of service in 1917 for its last couple of years on BR &, of course, still has it today. The boiler history post War is:- 3125/30582: AS Dec 45 - Apr 54 / D921 May 54 - June 60 / D916 July 60- July 61 (withdrawal) 3488/30583: D916 Dec 46 - Sep 49 / D921 Oct 49 - Jan 53 / D916 Feb 53 - Mar 59 / AT Apr 59 - July 61 (withdrawal) & into preservation. 3520/30584:

Regarding the note with the prototype, the combination shown definitely does not represent a specific member of the class! But that will undoubtedly change! Chris Knowles-Thomas

Responding to the last(?) post on the Radials under the 58ft coaches thread I would dispute Maskelyne's assertion that 3488 (30583) was given new frames to the original pattern when purchased from the EKR. Surely if the SR had reframed it they would have given her similar frames as had been fitted in 1930 to 3125 & 3520, and given her double slide bars to boot. According to D L Bradley "At some period (since the 1917 sale by the LSWR) the frames around the coupled wheel boxes had been roughly, if effectively, strengthened by doubling the plating, the riveted patches having been left with razor sharp jagged edges because of the primitive equipment. The frames remain in this condition today. Yes five different builders built the Radials which accounts for some detail differences between members of the class. And the three survivors all came from different ones - 30582 (3125) from R Stephenson; 30583 (3488) from Neilson and 30584 (3520) from Dubs. Chris Knowles-Thomas

I don't think you should feel guilty, Peter! After all it's Hornby who tantalised us with the prospect of appropriate carriages to go with their Radial, in their video clip. Chris Knowles-Thomas

I'm sure the first and last aren't identical - the configuration of the roof vents are different for a start. Yes the front coach is definitely van + 8 compartments ie diagram 99 BT. While the sides of the rear coach aren't very clear even in Bigherb's enhancement, backed up by the evidence of the roof vents, it seems to be 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments + van, ie this would suit a diag. 418 BCL. Chris Knowles-Thomas

Further to John's reply I'd agree that a T3 is a 'bridge too far'. The only reasonable candidate for conversion would be an Adams 380 ('Steamroller') class 4-4-0 which did have 5' 7" drivers. Chris Knowles-Thomas

Having studied the clip several times I agree they are LSWR bodies rebuilt on SR 58ft underframes. Further, in my opinion, the leading coach is a diagram 99 BT; the middle one a diag. 31 TL and the rear one a diag. 418 BCL. The BT + BCL would make 2-LAV sets Nos. 42-46 which, inter alia, were synonymous with the Radials and the Lyme Regis branch from 1935 to 1958. The TLs were mainly loose and used as strengtheners. The sole survivor, 320, is on the Bluebell Railway and along with Maunsell diag. 2401 BCK 6575 (already in Hornby's range) were the first two carriages acquired by the Bluebell. Chris Knowles-Thomas

Phil, The books I suspect you're thinking of are the Pullman Profiles by Anthony M Ford and published by Noodle Books. So far there have been four:- No. 1: The 12-Wheel Cars No. 2: The Standard 'K-Type' Cars No. 3: The All-Steel 'K-Type' Cars No. 4: The Brighton Belle and Southern Electric Pullmans Chris Knowles-Thomas

Just to correct a common misconception the Hastings Pullmans were NOT short - they were the same 62ft 4in over headstocks as all other K class Pullmans. They were just narrower, ie 8ft 1in rather than the usual 8ft 6in. Chris Knowles-Thomas

The "coach sides" look like the internal corridor side screens for two LMS 7 compartment corridor thirds! Possibly from Westdale kits. Chris Knowles-thomas

As the person who contributed the remark that 1705/06 were the last pre-Nationalisation (hauled) coaches in service perhaps I should comment. Firstly, technically, this was true when they were withdrawn as 'Sc1999' was at that time still in service stock as Inspection Saloon DE902260! But there is something strange about SC1999 - granted it started work on the W. Highland in 1980 but was it a 'normal' BR coach? I could not find it in the relevant RCTS BR Coaching Stock books (which is why I overlooked it) which suggests it was not listed in official BR lists of capital stock. A bit of a mystery as to what its official status really was. This aside it was interesting in starting life as the prototype LNER Thompson (or Newton) coach - the unique diagram 334 FK No. 1531 of 1945, 61ft 6in in length as opposed to the 63ft of production Thompson FKs to diag.332. Of course it was subsequently rebuilt as an Inspection Saloon. Chris Knowles-Thomas

Yes, many of us hope that Bachmann will update their Bulleid coach range. The fact that they are in the process of updating their LNER Thompsons and have brought out better Bulleids in 'N' gauge perhaps gives us cause for hope? As Graham says no doubt they would repeat their existing 1949 onwards built Bulleids with deep 15inch window vents - TK, TO, BTK & CK. But, assuming the glazing bars would be moulded in the glazing in any new offerings it would presumably be relatively easy to offer alternative versions of the TK, BTK and CK with shallow 10.25inch vents. (I appreciate there are other minor differences). Of course to make a possible shallow vent range really useful they would need to add the BCKs diagram 2405 (for 2-sets 63-75) and 2406 (loose). These would make the SR Western Section modeller very happy and would facilitate modelling the 'ACE' and other trains. Of course we have no SR catering cars either but that's another topic......... Chris45lsw

The Mess Van at Oswestry was probably an ex LSWR coach converted to a camping coach by the Southern Region. Two were acquired by the WR following boundary changes and subsequently went into Departmental service with the WR & later LMR. Regarding the Birdcages Bachmann describe them as Brake Third, Brake Compo and Compo but the Brake Compo was second/third class and became all third from early SR days onwards. Although Bachmann are going to sell them separately the vast majority were indivisible 3-sets for all their lives - formed BT, CL, BTL. They had to be indivisible because only the CL had a dynamo and battery boxes to supply lighting to all three coaches though the SR found this insufficient and later fitted the BT with a dynamo & battery boxes as well but the BTL never had these. Set 600, however, was made up to 6 coaches around 1933/34 but was disbanded in 1941 and it was this set which provided the coaches for Pull Push sets 660 & 661. Another point to note is that the arrangement of windows in the first class saloon of the CL was altered about half way through the build. It remains to be seen which version Bachmann will choose - I hope it wil be the later type (diagram 316) which would, inter alia, be suitable to adapt for PP set 660. While these birdcages and the 'long ten' ten compartment thirds were the same length the birdcages had 'Fox' pressed steel bogies while the 'long tens' had the later Maunsell/Lynes bogie which became the SR standard bogie. And the Birdcage sets had turnbuckle truss rod while the 'long tens' had angle iron truss bars. Chris Knowles-Thomas

One obvious omission from this CAD is the centre rib on the cab roof. Some comments on older postings on this topic:- 1. Yes the SR used more than one size of air pump - this was discussed on the Southern email Group a while ago. 2. The one time Wadebridge loco, 30203, had a Drummond style boiler from April 1946 until it was withdrawn Dec 1955. 30193 which Kernow are doing with the early BR emblem had a Drummond style fitted in June 1958 when it also gained the later crest. But it was faulty & it reverted to an Adams boiler in August 1958! 3. O2s reigned at Wadebridge for the Padstow - Bodmin North service until 1960 when they were replaced by 57xx panniers 4666 & 4694. Even so, to my surprise, I found O2 30199 in Wadebridge shed in August 1961 as spare engine. More annoying I had to put up with 4694 on my train to Bodmin N. but I've seen a photo of 30199 in use in Sept 1961! The crews did not like the 57xx's so Ivatt class '2' tanks replaced them in 1962 and they lasted until June 1964 when the railbus shuttle was introduced between Boscarne Junc & Bodmin N. 4. The reason P&P M7s had their pumps on the right and O2s on the left is because they were on the fireman's side, and M7s were left hand drive; the O2s right hand. Chris45lsw

Yes it is the same set - this Quad-art was a unique one off & lasted to, at least, 1954 mainly on the Mablethorpe loop. It was formed 42ft BT(4) 47911, 32ft T(5) 47912, 36ft T(saloon) 47913 & 42ft BC (2/3) 47914. And, yes, the end brakes were originally rigid 8 wheelers. Does anyone know of any other artics made from old GNR 6 wheelers etc which lasted long into BR days? Fascinating & priceless set of photos in general; keep them coming, please! Chris Knowles-Thomas