hexagon789

The Highland Main Line between Perth and Inverness has never been fully double track, but what had been doubled in the 1900s was singled in the 1960s only to be redoubled in 1978. Originally double Perth-Stanley; Blair Atholl-Dalwhinnie and Daviot-Inverness, BA to Dalwhinnie and Culloden to Daviot were singled and a number of passing loops removed. Rising tourist traffic and the oil boom saw Blair-Dalwhinnie redoubled, 3 passing loops reinstated and plans to single Tomatin-Inverness shelved. The Inverness-Aberdeen line is another that was once partly double over a significant length. The whole stretch from Aberdeen-Keith Junction plus Dalcross-Inverness was once double, singled 1970. Only Insch-Kennethmont was left as a short double section. On the line from Ayr-Stranraer, it was originally double Ayr-Girvan, that was singled in 1973. The Glasgow and South Western Main Line from Glasgow to Carlisle via Kilmarnock and Dumfries was double throughout, Barrhead-Kilmarnock and Annan-Gretna Jcn were singled in 1975 after the WCML Northern electrification was completed. In 2009 Annan-Gretna was redoubled and the passing loop between Barrhead and Kilmarnock was extended south to Stewarton to give a long dynamic loop to permit a half-hourly Glasgow-Kilmarnock service. You also have the Borders Railway, the so-called "Waverley Route", another that was originally fully double track. Craigendoran Jcn-Helensburgh, singled 1984. The Milngavie branch, part singled 1990. The Balloch Branch, singled 1973. It's not a peculiarly British trait either, I can think of a number of lines in Ireland and France which have been singled.

Bear in mind Avanti are down to hourly and the previously two-hourly TPE Glasgow service is down to just 3 per day. There are more than 3 routes, but two have had the services decimated to a mere handful of early morning/late evening services. The 2 main routes are Glasgow Queen Street-Falkirk High-Edinburgh Waverley which is presently only half-hourly and uses 385s. The other is Glasgow Central-Shotts-Edinburgh Waverley which also uses 385s and is presently down to hourly and by stopping everywhere is almost twice as long. These are both ScotRail worked routes. The Glasgow Central-Carstairs-Edinburgh Waverley route previously had a two-hourly CrossCountry (XC) and two-hourly ScotRail have been cut. The ScotRail service is basically peak only (mostly 380s but odd 385), and the XC service (usually 220/221 Voyagers) is down to 4 each say mostly running early morning/late evening. There is also the one daily LNER service (Class 801 Azuma) to from London King's Cross but this runs very early from Glasgow and late back. There is also Glasgow QS Low Level via Airdrie and Bathgate to Edinburgh Waverley, this uses 334 EMUs but is very much a suburban/commuter route. The last route, Glasgow QS-Cumbernauld-Falkirk Grahamston-Edinburgh Waverley is cut to one per day I understand. If you appreciate architecture - Wemyss Bay is a no-brainer, it is an absolutely stunning station. The village itself is small but has a few pubs and cafes. The Manchester Airport-Redcar Central service (which is what TPE provide Manchester-York) are all 185s at the minute, I don't believe that's changing in May but I could be wrong.

If it's any consolation it took me years to be able to tell the various "marks" of the Mk2 design apart at a glance, and I still struggle to tell a 2E from a 2F easily much of the time. 2A from 2Z isn't that easy either, context in terms of brake (vacuum vs air) helps but isn't infallible given there were conversions with certain vehicles to the opposite type to that originally fitted. The Harris book has been invaluable on the Mk2 front, but Longworth is useful as well. Going back to the original point though - I think 2Bs were simply quite rare in Scotland.

The WHL trains with the exception of the Euston sleeper, were vacuum braked and often mixed Mk1/2 stock. So no Mk2B vehicles would likely appear. I have seen a Mk2C in a three coach set but that was all air-braked stock and likely the seated vehicles off the sleeper doing a fill-in run. I have this book and on inspection the train appears to be formed: Mk2C BSO Mk2A TSO Mk2A TSO MK2C CK Mk2C TSOT The standard Inverness-Edinburgh/Glasgow formation. There were no 2B vehicles in the pool for these workings. The 2B only came in TSO, FK and BFK flavours on BR. Northern Ireland Railways did have other different types of 2B though, more suited to their needs.

I like the picture of the birds on the trailer!

I think you are correct, the leading car certainly still has seats. The photo is dated 23/10/86 and railcar says the two cars in the picture weren't converted until November, so perhaps they are pre-conversion in Bill Atkinson's shot?

As I said though, I don't think it's meant to be a push-pull working failed control system or otherwise 1. Because the Inverness trains were not booked push-pull 2. Because the carriages behind the DBSO fit the standard formation of the Inverness-Edinburgh/Glasgow formations (CK-TSOT-TSO-TSO-BSO sometimes augmented with a BG, TSO(s) and even extra BSO), and its pulling into Platform 5 so it's not an Aberdeen service. 3. Because while 47/7s did appear on Highland Main Line workings, there not being a huge number of the subclass meant it wasn't an extremely frequent occurrence but did happen at times. My feeling is still a DBSO replacing an unavailable BSO ad hoc.

Oh I didn't read anything into the loco provided being a push-pull 47/7, I took that to be mere coincidence with the DBSO being there. As you say, it was - not perhaps common but a frequent enough occurrence - to have 47/7s on non-push-pull workings such as to Inverness. That was the intriguing point for me, because it seemed so unusual. I know that the DBSO were supposedly originally converted with brake end gangway connection intact to permit use as a conventional brake and conventional carriage within a formation if needed but that never appears to have happened as intended. Indeed it is, there are plenty if quirky formations and workings. One other one I still haven't got my head round is the Sundays Only inclusion of one of Polmadie's Mk1 BSOT in the formation of the Aberdeen Mk3 set in the mid-1980s. Seems such a peculiar arrangement but it's there in the carriage workings and there are a few photos showing that it did happen in practice.

Well yes, but if this was an Edinburgh-Inverness service they weren't booked for push-pull working anyway. And the DBSOs were essentially captive to the ScotRail Express routes of Edinburgh-Glasgow, Glasgow-Aberdeen and for a brief period Edinburgh-Aberdeen. If it is an Edinburgh-Inverness service, the inclusion of a DBSO would be in my opinion extremely rare if not unheard of outside of a proper push-pull set and that's what intrigued me - I've seen probably hundreds of photos of ScotRail operations in the 1980s, but this is the first time I've seen a DBSO in a conventional Inverness set. I have seen a DBSO used with Mk2 PVs from the Inverness allocation on Aberdeen-Glasgow but that was being worked as a push-pull set vice Mk2 air-cons which were likely in for painting at the time. This is different.

I have also posted this in the Scottish Region photos thread, that was because I was hoping to see some suggestions about the reasoning behind the composition. I'm posting it here as well because it fits the thread criteria and because I think it is interesting. A DBSO seemingly acting as a BSO in an Edinburgh-Inverness train being hauled by a 47/7: (Copyright Walter Burt flickr)

I have often wondered if DBSOs were ever used as conventional brake vehicles. Obviously there were occasions where the push-pull equipment failed or a non-push-pull loco was provided and so the DBSO would be acting as a conventional brake van, but I had yet to come across one seemingly being used simply as a BSO essentially in a train that is not a push-pull set (at least it doesn't appear to be) but is being hauled by a 47/7. I found this on Flickr this evening and there are a few intriguing points someone may be able to surmise/suggest reasons behind: (Copyright Walter Burt flickr) According to the caption a Edinburgh-Inverness service, and indeed bar the leading coach a fairly conventional Inverness set with the addition of a BG, which was by no means unusual particularly it seemed in the summer. However, instead of a Mk2C BSO, we have a DBSO. There is also a 47/7, but if this is an Edinburgh-Inverness I wouldn't imagine the train was intended to operate as push-pull (I think only the Jacobite ever did?) and the loco is hauling from the front not propelling anyway. The question is really why the inclusion of the DBSO? There weren't exactly plenty to be used as normal brakes, or at least they never seem to have been used like that. If it was the only brake vehicle I could perhaps understand its inclusion as a last resort necessity but there is a BG on the rear, so the train has a brake van without it. All in all I'm intrigued to say the least!

Apparently yes, there is a fault line through the Malverns for one matter but apparently the county is an earthquake hotspot for England; so the theory might not be quite as ridiculous as it might seem at first perhaps?

They have a very sort of IoM look about them to my eyes - chunky running boards, livery etc...

One possibility would be the Edinburgh-Newcastle service, you could even theoretically diagram a Manchester-Edinburgh to turn into one on arrival at Edinburgh. Another option would be running double sets, but that doesn't seem especially likely. Third option I can think of is that TPE do away with them and the ROSCO offers them to someone else?

Yes, there was also a larger 6-wheel version. They were still in use in the 1970s, I think it may have been the import of ex-BR Mk1s converted to generator steam vans in 1972 that saw them off, but I'm not sure exactly because I have an idea some were still used in the later 1970s on suburban duties not covered by the converted railcar push-pull trains and limited to I think 50 or 60mph by that point.

Right up until replaced by Voyagers, the CrossCountry Mk2 sets were a mix of 2E and 2F types to give an example. In earlier years, depending on route and local allocations of course, mixes of even pressure vent and air-con Mk2s was by no means rare particularly on second rank services and particularly around the periods when stock cascades happened. An idea of the location/services you are seeking to model would help in providing more relevant examples to you.

Probably a midday semi-fast Leeds working, they often had only one first and an RMB rather than full restaurant. J3688 - 1E07 was the 1110 Edinburgh-King's Cross. As with the down 1300, more of a semi-fast than express per se and a favourite for 47-haulage. And echoing other's comments, J4125 really is a gem of a photo.

Something that started with the Mk2D coaches, meals at seats in First Class vehicles rather than in dedicated restaurant cars. Hence the switch to all open vehicles from the 2E onwards. Very much of interest, some great photos. I can't say for certain, but I understood only the Tyne-Tees became a 2+9, that the Yorkshire Pullman was always 2+8. I may be completely wrong but that's what I thought anyway.

Thank you very much, that's an excellent and informative reply. Much appreciated.

Before LNER replaced its HSTs with Azumas, the longest HST diagram was 1169 miles. Another was 1108 miles and there were two at 1084 miles. A further 4 were over 1000 miles, and the shortest diagram was for 893. For comparison, the longest IC225 diagram was 1247 miles during the same period.

Worth pointing out that the train after the 1928 launch of non-stop running was only actually non-stop for 10 weeks of the year, during high summer, outwith this period the train made intermediate calls.

Lovely selection there l, B&W makes things much most atmospheric somehow. I particularly like JVol3060 with the 'Cutler' looking every bit the epitome of an express and JV2053 where I must echo LMS2968 - very brave in what looks like a right "whiteout"! Makes me shiver just thinking about it!

153s have treads...

I don't know about rail length but there was still 1920s laid 90lb rail laid on the Galway & Mayo lines into the 1990s and 85lb on the Sligo line past Mullingar. The former was utterly hammered by the 201s and the latter by the 071s when they were introduced on thise respective routes l, declining maintenance budgets led to increasing numbers of TSRs and eventually derailments (See Knockcroghery, 1997). May well have been 45ft lengths among that lot, even 30ft possibly?

Happy New Year! Waverley looks rather busy for New Year's Day there