D860 VICTORIOUS

Has the time come for some form of driver refresher training and/or re-tests? Probably wouldn't be at all popular,but for my part,it's forty years this year since getting a HGV licence,and the fab company I worked for who paid for it had their own HGV driving school,and I do remember having a couple of occasions where I was given refresher training.That's not happened since.Once we get our car licence,we more or less have it for life too. With what seems like ever more crowded roads,smart motorways,ordinary cars being capable of high speeds and the many examples of questionable driver behaviour given in this forum,maybe some form of re-think might happen...

Some very interesting and valid points raised here.I tend to agree with the view of Reorte,that selecting your wiper speed manually and using headlights etc. to reflect the conditions also manually is not difficult or time-consuming,if we're familiar with our cars then we know how to do this without a break in concentration. I think that part of the problem lies in built-in interior distractions in today's cars,and as said in a previous post,the amount of drivers who seemingly don't have a minute to live as they hurry on with their journey. And,what is it about mini-roundabouts that causes such uncertainty??!! There's one near me(very close to a Waitrose store-just saying!) that makes probably competent drivers go to pieces....

Craneman makes several valid points,the "dumbing down" of driving being a prime example. I'm not anti-technological advances by any stretch,but are we all so helpless nowadays that cars are fitted with rain-sensing wipers,lights that come on when driving under the smallest of bridges,and,in my view,unnecessary DRL's? if drivers don't have the common sense to work out themselves when wipers and lights are required,should they be on the road? Then again,manufacturers fit these things as gimmicks and I expect some drivers think they're a must-have. What is really a must-have when driving any motor vehicle is concentration,awareness,anticipation and consideration. Of course,for the type of driver who checks their phone,turns away from looking at the road to speak to their passenger,or adoringly flicks their hair around while looking in the r/v mirror,these qualities may be the least of their concerns. I'm not faultless on the road,but I have 30-plus years of HGV work under my belt,and it's a bit depressing to see the behaviour of some road users. Neil

Agreed,a myriad of front-end differences on the earlier class members. I had decided to do a blue example with the "eyebrow" vents above front windows,and thought D6333 would be ideal,but the study of pictures shows that the minute handrails above the indicator boxes are in a different position to those on the model,and I don't trust myself with removal and repositioning of these! 6308 seems to be decent option,I think the eyebrow vents could be fashioned from plasticard. I'd also like D6307 with larger indicator boxes,but unsure if I could make a reasonable likeness.I have Dapol D6326 in plain green with disc h/codes,I wouldn't have seen one like that but the model has a lot of charm. Hydraulics? Can't beat them!

Blimey you Worcester spotters must have been amazed to see a 22 on a Class 1! Not sure about the filming special though. "A hard days night"-was that something to do with some band called The Beatles? They'll never get anywhere.... Just had a quick butchers at my records,on 16th January 1971,nearly but not quite 51 years ago,I saw D6340 between Southall and Paddington. Full marks to Dapol for initiating another version of what,in my opinion,is a splendid model.

Just occurred to me,it's now over 50 years since the 22's roamed the rails,and I'm still fascinated by them.Barely gave them a 2nd glance at the time though... Hi Phil,another 81A regular and another one I'd like is D6336,very ably modelled by yourself recently! Neil

Tooling mods to reflect the later cab front configuration would be great. Then I'd be able to have D6343 and 6356,the two I saw most often! Neil.

On this day in History 3rd January 1972 Ealing Broadway-Paddington D1005 D1024 D1063 D1068 1589 1650 1652 1653 1655 1660 1664 1692 1695 1738 3947 3955 3961 3999 5536 D7028 D7053 Kings Cross 275 1505 1506 1509 1522 1523 1760 1972 5589 5606 5607 5622 5623 5677 9008 9015 9021 St Pancras 54 81 141 183 3306 Liverpool St. 1561 1573 1702 3320 5509 5564 6750 6961 6967 Willesden Jct. 1867 1883 3051 3067 3848 4133 4151 5183 7530 7532 7554 7629 5518 5668 6570 6829 6948 E3059 E3069 E3092 E3110 E3119 E3125 E3132 E3134 E3148 E3178 E3200 Old Oak Common D809 D1030 D1047 D1049 D1063 1587 1599 1607 1612 1643 1648 1650 1658 1678 1692 4000 4166 5528 5818 D7006 D7013 D7017 D7027 D7029 D7030 D7046 D7049 D7058 D7061 D7066 D7069 D7079 D7081 Many of the Hymeks at OOC,and of course D809,were withdrawn.Most appropriate loco seen that day-1972. Neil.

Hi all, I've not read through every page of this thread,so apologies if I'm repeating any previous suggestions. PAA Tullis Russell clay hopper PXA Powell Duffryn bogie steel carrier and,maybe a real outsider,a wagon produced by Triang I had among my first few wagons as a child: the three-container wagon... The Accurascale wagons I have bought so far(Hop24 and Coil A) are just fabulous,I'm looking forward to seeing what's next... This was said at the same stage last year,but let's hope for a better year ahead,HNY to all. Neil.

6 11 1971 :forgot this bit.. Acton Central-Willesden-Acton Central D1026 1777 6581 7534 7660

On this day in history 6 11 1971 Old Oak Common D809 D817 821 823 842 D1009 D1019 D1022 D1023 D1038 D1042 D1043 D1045 D1049 D1051 D1067 D1071 1594 1628 1639 1641 1643 1649 1653 1654 1655 1656 1657 1670 1675 1736 1747 1916 1932 1939 3600 3601 3947 3961 3962 3963 3965 3966 4003 4166 4177 4179 5528 5535 5536 5539 D7006 D7016 D7028 D7029 D7030 D7031 D7033 D7035 D7036 D7037 D7049 D7052 D7054 D7056 D7061 D7069 D7071 D7081 Willesden 1613 1783 3017 3107 4132 4133 5183 7528 7629 7660 5502 6530 6565 12058 E3003 E3010 E3011 E3014 E3076 E3077 E3090 E3091 E3093 E3110 E3116 E3117 E3121 E3123 E3135 E3140 E3141 E3143 E3148 E3157 E3163 E3167 E3169 E3170 E3179 E3186 E3189 E3193 E3199 Neil.

Hi Neil, Brian, Nidge, Midland Red, and D826. Firstly Neil, D600 Active in blue near Truro on a Saturday freight! Not something you would see in West Middlesex. I used to take my Ian Allen ABC to Southall and underline stuff as it came through. I have some of my notebooks, as you say, historically and personally very important. Seeing D0280 at Exeter must have made you wonder if you were imagining things. My mate has either a slide or photo of Falcon at Dawlish (I think) in 1969, could be the same occasion. Reading was a great place for spotting back then. Now Neil, far be it for me to add to your Hymek woe, but on two separate occasions in April 1972, I have D7071 and D7079 logged at OOC, in store I think. I had the same scenario with Hymeks, copped a couple at Canton that I never saw again. Only 22 NB 2 's seen by me, way below your total. I think I have seen a published photo of a Western on the Par - Park Royal freightliner, and one of the magazines had a Hymek feature giving details of the Kensington - St Austell Motorail on th eight or so occasions Hymek worked it in summer 1971. Rapid was the Warship that myself and my mates thought we had missed but maybe being an early withdrawal dictated it's position in the Con Yard at Swindon, a greart cop for us. My (fading) memories of 43's in 1971 are how tidy some looked, as you say some were overhauled and just months later cast aside, BR were good at wasting money back then. Yes, all of the first generation classes are interesting now.... Brian's copies of "loco stock changes" take you back, up to date info just wasn't available. And Nidge, I echo your thoughts on a layout, maybe one day. Good stuff from Midland Red too and, D826's thoughts of masses of nostalgia over a few pints is most pleasant! "Jumpers for Goalposts" - while playing "three and in"...... thank you all for sharing your memories , time machine becoming every more necessary. Neil

HI Neil,Rugd1022,Rivercider and D826, I think a bit of confusion has crept in here,might have something to do with two of us being Neil! Neil,coincidentally,I started spotting at Southall in 1968,so I had Falcon underlined as D0280,and I can recall seeing paired-up Warships racing through,though only in the down direction,Warships were my favourite loco's right from the start,and still are.The 81A NB2's were of course often seen. As regards the notes of Reading,I can't recall what the 73 was doing there,but IIRC the 33's worked the Weymouth/Poole cross countries to Reading and return.I did post some Class 43 info in the DH section some time ago,and just to reiterate,D809 in it's rather weather-beaten maroon was working 6A27 that day,a fabulous memory. As you point out,the Hymek cull had started, I had seen D7006 on a freight at Clapham Jct in the August,and I think D7081 was the first to actually be taken out of service due to fire damage,I have it noted at OOC in the August,I'm guessing it was stored by then.I managed to see all of the Hymeks,by the skin of my teeth,and I'm fortunate to own a set of numbers from D7069.Also,you've identified what the DB975023 was,I couldn't remember! As has been said on here before,the Autumn cull of DH loco's was surely implemented too rashly. Great notes from your day at Truro,I would have copped a few there! The Par-Park Royal Freightliner is of interest to me,I have an Exe Rail print of a 47 at Newton Abbot on this service.Also,I worked in Park Royal back in the day,and remember the Goods Depot still standing,even though I had lost my rail interest at the time,however I digress... Me and my mate eat our sarnies in the cab of 6319 at Marsh Jct in around October 72,the only loco still there,what an appalling loss that loco was.Oh,and just noticed the reference to D860,probably my fave 43,and,as well as Champion,there were THREE other mfye Warships at the end D815,D817 and D838,perhaps I misunderstood your wording. So,thanks for all your replies and combined memories,from a period in rail history we were fortunate to witness. I know this forum isn't the place for moralising and philosophysing,but how different is the world we live in now.... Neil

Southall-Reading-Southall D1018 D1059 D1060 D1070 1535 1589 1607 1609 1646 1656 1658 1662 1664 1912 1933 1934 1935 1956 3601 3947 D7007 D7026 D7053 D7065 DB975023 Reading D809 841 853 854 D1002 D1003 D1020 D1028 D1029 D1035 D1036 D1040 D1056 D1065 D1068 1533 1584 1588 1589 1591 1606 1607 1612 1637 1640 1651 1658 1662 1667 1669 1672 1674 1677 1680 1709 1751 1753 1755 1776 1864 1904 1938 3807 3953 3965 5535 6514 6534 D7033 D7049 D7065 D7100 1200 E6045 Neil.

On this day in History 24th June 1971 Southall 24 6 71 812 828 D1001 D1005 D1007 D1008 D1016 D1018 D1023 D1038 D1058 D1072 1200 1110 1561 1585 1606 1670 1732 1767 1803 1913 3963 3999 D7036 D7053 One of the times I came home from school,rushed through homework,bolted down tea and walked to Southall. I copped 812,a Warship perhaps more associated with the Waterloo-Exeter route,and shortly after,828 hurried through on the down fast with 6V07 Kensington-Penzance milk empties. 1110 would have been a rare visitor,contrasting with "Falcon",seen on most spotting trips in the WR London area at the time. Great days... Neil

Ealing Broadway - Cardiff - Ealing Broadway 29 91 98 145 149 155 167 176 D849 855 D859 D1009 D1027 D1035 D1037 D1045 D1054 D1058 1529 1543 1585 1599 1605 1607 1609 1611 1642 1643 1644 1652 1660 1672 1681 1683 1712 1715 1725 1740 1745 1759 1777 1857 1902 1941 1952 3260 3268 3422 3596 3600 3602 3668 3759 3762 3806 3807 3814 3819 3831 3948 3963 4010 4024 4119 4125 4170 5180 5182 5209 5213 7510 7516 7565 7620 7625 7656 5682 5824 6578 6601 6603 6837 6929 6933 6941 6954 6955 6961 6975 6976 6979 6985 D7005 D7016 D7018 D7021 D7028 D7032 D7037 D7050 D7052 D7074 D7092 D7094 D7096 D7098 Canton Depot 26 28 83 122 125 1589 1590 1750 1846 1905 1906 1907 1911 1913 1917 3256 3258 3424 3434 3749 3753 3960 4012 4176 4182 6876 6892 6909 6910 6917 6970 6992 6993 6996 6999 D7004 D7036 D7060* D7064* D7070 D7073* D7082 D7083* D7086* D7087 D7088* D7090 7569 7624 7657 7676 7677 Barry 1901 1909 1919 6922 6977 Haulage Ealing B to Cardiff 1543 Cardiff to Ealing B 1609 While our train was cantering through Sonning Cutting on the down relief, a crescendo of sound announced green-liveried D7005 thundering past on the down main. The three 43's and D7021 were visible in the Con Yard at Swindon. The six Hymeks marked with asterisks were in store at Canton. Stopped for signals just outside Reading on the return journey we could see, and certainly hear, a Warship accelerating away on the B&H with empty milk tanks. Due to the fading light and distance away we could not see the number, but subsequently identified as 825. Apart from the four Hydraulics at Swindon and the stored Hymeks, nothing seen that day was out of the ordinary, that's how it was back then........ Neil

Hi Phil, I have in my records Old Oak Common - based NBL type 2's up until April 1971, with D6340 recorded at Southall on an unknown date in May 1971. Also on a BR Merrymaker from Southall to Barry Island on 23rd May 1971, again D6340 was seen at Swindon. I think that all of Old Oak Common's allocation of class 22's was transferred away sometime in May 1971. Neil

D819 824 833 856 D859 D1000 D1007 D1009 D1014 D1033 D1034 D1041 D1043 D1045 D1048 D1064 D1068 1540 1594 1596 1603 1641 1650 1654 1656 1659 1667 1674 1678 1702 1904 1905 1920 1932 1933 3358 3600 3955 5536 D6340 6962 D7011 D7048 D7071

Southall - Paddington - Southall 803 D1001 D1006 D1016 D1021 D1022 D1031 D1038 D1043 D1046 D1048 D1049 D1050 D1055 D1065 D1066 1583 1587 1593 1608 1638 1641 1647 1657 1663 1667 1672 1679 1689 1708 1736 1904 1913 1915 1921 3600 3963 3966 5528 5692 D7016 D7050 D7052 D7055 D7074 Kings Cross 171 264 275 359 1102 1108 1111 1506 1567 1766 1997 5592 5624 5626 5641 5644 5649 9003 9015 9017 St Pancras 50 69 127 131 176 1855 3304 At Paddington, whilst waiting for the platform end signal to run light to Old Oak Common, the friendly crew of Albion allowed me and my schoolmate a quick cab visit. A mere 49 years ago.... Neil

Thank you all for taking the trouble to reply. Having delved a little further, I have found some possible answers: In a not very current Hornby catalogue the following Pullman Cars are listed: R4165 listed as 3rd Kitchen - is this externally identical to a 2nd Kitchen? R4166 listed as 3rd Brake - is this externally identical to a 2nd Brake? It seems to me that these Cars are the ones listed as a formation in the early 60`s. Can anyone confirm this please? Thanks again, Neil

I have recently acquired the highly recommended Blue Pullman story completely revised and unabridged (Kevin Robertson/Mike Smith), surely this will be the definitive work on these iconic units. One of the chapters deals with the loco-hauled set of the early 1960`s, which I am aiming to make a representation of. I have a Hornby Kitchen First and two Mk.1 First Opens that I am putting together from Replica components. My question is: are the two Parlour Brake cars and the two Kitchen Seconds available in the Hornby range? This would then complete a formation as detailed in the above book Any help and information would be gratefully received. Neil

Yep,same with me,at the end of 1973.A growing interest in music,more interest in football(well,QPR...),the first few under-age pub visits,and more interest in girls(not often reciprocated,but no one's interested in my hard-luck stories..),and a thought that taking train numbers wasn't "cool"..Re-discovered my interest at the end of the 80's,with photography of Class 50's being the catalyst. You're exactly right Mike,how great it is that all the Hydraulic classes are available in model form...(as well as all the other good stuff)... Neil

Hi Caradoc, Indeed they would,I remember reading in the Railway Magazine each month which loco's had been renumbered,and then maybe a couple of months later that would be amended because a loco had been fitted with different equipment,all very confusing...In the summer of that year I saw 45106 at Bristol,I think it was one of the very few loco's whose TOPS number in any way related to it's previous number... Neil

Ealing B.-Paddington- Ealing B. 401 D1006 D1043 D1044 D1046 D1050 D1073 1531 1576 1589 1601 1607 1647 1654 1660 1672 1680 1724 1740 1823 1904 1926 1936 1940 1941 1945 1947 1949 1955 1956 3947 3965 5539 5690 D7017 D7018 E6016 Kings Cross 164 174 274 1103 1110 1502 1506 1507 1508 1509 1511 1516 1534 1626 1965 5592 5595 5608 5623 5626 5640 5645 5652 9002 9004 9010 9013 9017 9019 9021 Finsbury Park Shed and station 190 258 269 285 389 1103 1108 1512 1626 1628 1933 1965 1970 1973 3678 3690 3717 3723 4040 5589 5596 5598 5599 5604 5610 5611 5613 5622 5625 5626 5627 5639 5642 5646 5647 5648 5649 5650 5653 5677 DB968001 DB968003 9008 9009 St. Pancras 45003 40 52 45111 87 92 98 112 114 119 1642 1719 3518 5174 5267 Neil

Hi John, Fully understand your point. Just by the way,the TOPS renumbering of the whole BR fleet was one of the reasons I gave up my rail interest at the end of 1973,another reason being the demise of the Warships...! Regards, Neil