The Johnster

No it isn't, Ian. I cannot recall them on anything other than passenger work in the Valleys in pre-dmu days, and even after that I can only recall them on freight work south of Radyr and on the main lines, transfer freights being the stock in trade. A WTT from the period will show restrictions, which, as Mike says, were fairly substantial for outside cylinder locos. My last 'ordinary' steam ride from Cardiff was with a 5101, an Whitsun Bank Holiday excursion to Barry Island from the old bay at Queen Street, non stop Cardiff General-Barry. Can't remember the loco number, but it was clean and hence probably Radyr's 4175; stock was a standard 5 coach Valleys set of compartment Colletts, last time I rode on them. There were a few sets kept at Queen Street carriage sidings for this sort of work, but they didn't last long after this.

You're welcome, o captain my captain.

'Top Gear' did one of their races KIng's Cross - Edinburgh with Clarkson on the footplate of Tornado; the set up was that it was 1949 and the other competitors were May in a Jag XK120 and Hammond on a Vincent Black Shadow, going up the A1. There is a high speed slip which is notable for the 3 locomen on the footplate instinctively diving for the regulator while Clarkson looks confused! When the situation is explained to him, he looks incredulous and comments on 'wheelspin at 70mph!'. Bless...

Thanks for the heads up, Mike; this is a flat ended type and is worth a punt in it's own right as the flat ended B sets were split and run singly in their later lives. Not sure any got to Tondu, which had flat enders still in B sets, which I intend one day to replicate with Comets, but it's close enough for Rule 1 IMHO. I've already ordered the 3D print fishbellies from Stafford Road, so from a position of a complete dearth of fishbellies I am now given a choice!

They admit as much in the blurb for it, and that the cabbed version has missing rivets to make room for Fair Rosamund's nameplates, so can only be made up as that model. 517s are beyond my remit, though, as Tondu seems not to have had any in 1948, though I think Llantrisant had a couple.

Glad to assist, David. My South Wales based has a good number of them, in two rakes (one loaded one empty) mixed with 7 plankers in BR grey livery or very faded XPO and BR numbers. It is set in the 50s, and at this time the 7 plankers were being withdrawn in droves and replaced by the steel wagons. Like you, I've adopted the 'mostly grey but one or two bauxite' approach. My coal trains run as unfitted class K and my bauxite wagons have the vacuum brake isolated; the hose doesn't exist as I use tension lock couplers, but it if did it would be hanging loose. Even in the 70s when I worked on the railway, the vast majority of 16 tonners were unfitted and in grey livery. The collieries did not like any wagon that was not a standard unfitted 16 tonner with an instanter coupling and their shunters complained that the vacuum hoses got in their way and slowed operations.

A word of caution about 2251 and the derivate 94xx; wheel spacing is indeed the same as 57xx/8750 and their predecessors, but chassis are not interchangeable for modelling purposes. The frame profile is different on both 2251 and 94xx, and the 94xx has plate frames. Hasn’t stopped me happily using a Bachmann chassis under a Lima 94xx body, but I’ll be happier when the Bachmann 94xx comes out! I am also content to run a Hornby 2721, albeit worked up a bit, and this involves plastic skirts under the boiler and a chassis that is incorrect in terms of wheel spacing for any UK prototype AFAIK, just to put things in perspective...

Disestablishmentarianism?

Looked the same to me, but I’ll check it out before taking the plunge; thanks Tim. Makes sense of course, Stafford Road do a body print for an 1854 in saddle tank guise. Then again, they do a 517 as well...

There are no stupid questions except the ones you don't ask, south_tyne, but there are stupid answers; I'll try to avoid giving you one! Yes, fitted and unfitted 16tonners could be seen in the same train, with the fitted wagons both in the fitted head of the train and running as unfitted wagons with the vacuum brakes isolated in the unfitted section at the back. Yes, some fitted examples were kept for circuit traffic, especially as block trains during the 1980s, and yes, both types were pool wagons as well. Really, for general modelling purposes, you can do almost anything with them except run fitted ones in passenger trains as tail traffic, as they were not 'XP' rated, having 9 foot chassis. Fitted 16ton mineral wagons were not originally fitted with lamp brackets. You can. of course, run them with passenger vehicles in mixed trains, which is not the same thing as tail traffic.

Tried to sand down the Milliput toplight plating and ran into trouble; the Milliput hasn't gone off properly and dragged on the sander. Will have to remove it all and start again with fresh Milliput; this has obviously been got at by the air and I will bin it. But we are committed to W 207 W in crimson BR livery with plated toplights now, and, with the floor done except for the driving cab, and a repair to the rh footsteps and handrails, I have a good feeling that the project is at last underway, after a bit of faffing and indecision. That this has been dealt with and we now have a definite prototype to work to is down to support I have recieved on the this thread, and I don't think anyone'll mind if I single out Lofty, Great Bear, and Dave for particular mention. I am grateful for all of your inputs, though; thank you very much for your not inconsiderable help, chaps! I'll be ordering a pair of tank fillers for 1730 from Stafford Road as well.

Just been on Stafford Road's website and ordered a pair of fishbelly bogies, just over £20 the pair including postage as they are sold individually. These are complete bogies, not cosmetic sides, and have NEM pockets, so I decided that's the way to go; many thanks for the offer, Dave. Glad I've found Stafford Road, as I was unaware of them previously and they do some pretty good stuff by the look of it. Going back on the site now for a bit of browsing...

Canton Brits could take several minutes to clear Cardiff General’s platform 2 and were not much better getting away from Newport; Castles with similar loads just sat down on their rear drivers and set off with little fuss. This is fundamentally the difference between a good 2 cylinder pacific and one of the best 4 cylinder 4-6-0s of all time; one is not comparing like for like!

Pretty certain these are indeed the boyos we’re looking for, Dave, but I’m up the pub on the phone at the mo, so can’t confirm. Will PM later. I’ve made a bit of progress today in terms of the floor; as built the kit is a bare shell that doesn’t have one and you can see the track through the windows. Modelling was a lot cruder back in the day... A floor is vital not only for stopping the view of the track but as a support for the seats I intend to provide. I’ve done the saloons, passenger vestibule, and luggage compartment, wit the cab still to do. It’s not anything to shout about, just a piece of card cut to fit the areas.

Well, I am that up to date despite my dotage, so there yaboo sucks. I am am fully aware of the word’s origin but was happy to let Spikey believe his version; I’ve been rumbled now of course! Ms Hoover (Lisa’s teacher) is challenged by Ms Krebapple (Bart’s), who hails from Shelbyville where such vocabulary is unknown, promoting her response which is of course, in and of itself, perfectly cromulent. It it is my intention to subversively insert this word into text or conversation at suitable opportunities in an attempt to bring it into common usage. Any assistance any of you are willing to provide in this noble and embiggening quest will be appreciated, gentlemen!

I couldn’t. This might explain why your modelling is better than mine...

We did the Tunnel ferry a couple of times on Cornish Hollys, always good fun, Ford Prefect in our case! Severn Tunnel Jc station had a refreshment room on the island platform, which had a massive Cunard poster featuring the (scrapped by then) Mauritania; ‘holder of the Blue Riband’ in one of the end walls. We we also used the Beachley-Aust ferry sometimes, but the queues for it negated any time saving as against Gloucester and the A38. Almost impossible now to imagine life before the bridges. Never saw saw any large prairie except 5101s on Valley services.

Traction tyres are Satan’s expectorant in my view, and I immediately remove them from any model thus polluted that comes into my possession. Never had any problems on code 100, but on a facing turnout in code75... Not only do they destroy any chance the loco might have had of picking up current properly, they also spread crud everywhere ruining any other loco’s chances. And their pointlessness on a 14xx, seldom push or pulling more than one trailer, was pretty spectacular.

I like to see how people have approached and solved problems (or sometimes failed to) at exhibitions , and some of these are common to all model railway practice wherever based and whatever scale or standard of realism. There is also an increasing social aspect to them as I run into old chums and catch up, and, although it is something that has to be largely done online deze daze, one can still buy bits and pieces at exhibitions that one cannot get elsewhere. I certainly don't go just to see more South Wales 1950s layouts just like mine, much as I enjoy them; different things can be learned from even in my dotage...

If you are going to have a 'front of house' man to field questions I'd suggest making that his sole task and not giving him other jobs, as one will distract from the other. A question fielder of this sort can stand in front of the fiddle yard where he doesn't block the view of the layout. For exhibitions I agree with Mike that the 'L' should be the other way around, with the fielder standing in front of the right hand fiddle yard. Might it be possible to have the panel behind the layout and raised a little on some sort of platform, facing the audience, so that they can see what's going on; the panel operator can slide up and down on an office chair with castors. This allows the punters to get as close as the barriers allow to the layout and have an unobstructed veiw, and you can still show off the panel.

One hopes the guard'll put the lamps in position on the van before he passes the signalbox!

Wouldn't have thought of that, a perfectly cromulent solution. I'd forgotten about Kemilway; a blast from the past, there, Mr Isherwood sir and giving our age away!

There have been various attempts at this besides Leader. A loco for fast running needs to have carrying wheels to ride acceptably, safely, and without destroying the permanent way, but these and the axles and frames associated with them are dead weight that contribute nothing to traction and in fact reduce it on the driving wheels by taking weight that should bear down on the drivers. A pacific has a big boiler to supply the very large amounts of steam required for heavy express passenger work, and this needs a big, wide, firebox to produce the steam quickly, that cannot be fitted between the rear driving wheels; it can't be a long thin firebox as the fireman can't reach the front of it, so carrying wheels in the form of a pony truck beneath the cab take the weight of that end of the loco, assisted by the front of the tender. The way this is set up has a direct bearing on the tractive weight available to the driving wheels and the ride of the loco, and the set up is not always perfect... 'Booster' engines, smaller steam engines acting on the trailing wheels, were tried on some GNR and LNER locos, and IIRC the NER had a go with some Atlantics as well. Back in the 1850s, the GN's CME Archibald Sturrock designed a heavy goods 0-6-0 with a steam tender, an extension of the same principle. The boosters were intended to assist with starting and steam to them was shut off once the loco was under way and gripping properly. Success was elusive, and the idea never seemed to have been thought worth pursuing or developing. I suspect it's one of those things that sound like a good idea but introduces more difficulty than it solves in practice. The crews complained about the Sturrock steam tender locos that they were being asked to fire and drive 2 locos; they may have had a point! Pacifics are in some ways an extension in principle of atlantics, also designed for fast running with a big boiler and wide firebox. But the 4 coupled nature of atlantics sometimes made them better grippers than bigger Pacifics, and able to reliably start heavier trains, because although a pacific has an extra pair of wheels to power the train with, the adhesive weight bearing down on (which is the thing that prevents it from slipping) is less than on an atlantic. Braking is in some ways a reversal of some of the principles outlined (very crudely, I'm no engineer) above. It may seem counter intuitive, but a greater adhesive weight on the braked wheels enables more effective braking and less chance of the wheels 'picking up' and sliding. Once sliding starts, braking is very ineffective and the brake have to be fully released to get the wheels turning again, and another attempt at braking made. Sliding is Very Bad, as if it is unchecked it will wear a flat on the wheel's tyre which will damage the track and require the loco to be taken out of service for reprofiling on a wheel lathe, not to mention being a very poor and ineffective way of stopping a loco. Similarly, the reversal of the loco in an attempt to stop in an emergency often seen in Westerns is dramatic effect for the camera; the loco can stop much more quickly with steam shut off and the brakes properly applied. Braking performance is better with a train attached, as the train's brakes can assist, which is why light engines are speed restricted to 70mph so as to be able to pull up in the prescribed braking distances between signals. All this has a bearing on model railway practice, as the ballasting of model locos to improve pickup and haulage addresses a very similar problem and works in much the same way! On some locos, the non-driving wheels were braked, and on the GW, the loco's brakes were operated by the vacuum brake as well as the loco's steam brake, read straight air brake for diesel or electric traction.

I have a spare Baccy 57xx bunker, but am not sure if the extended version had found it's way on to 1730 in the loco's latter days, so have not made a decision to fit it. 1730 will look most like the left hand loco, in heavily weathered shirtbutton livery which I reckon is probably what the loco carried in 1948.

No argument there, Craig. That shot will be a guidance for the balance weights on 1730, which'll be a crude 00 compromise in comparison to this lovely very well made and finished Martin Finney loco.